[TV] The Flash!

[everydaygamer]

Okay so I'm confused, why did they break up? I mean forced drama obviously but from a story standpoint why? Because Barry proposed in a foolish attempt to stop her from dying... I mean I feel that's kind of a grey area, like it was dumb but also kind of understandable.

Also is it just me or is future Barry kind of a dick? Like I get that Savatar is bad but that prison seems pretty damn harsh.

[fakaroonie]

"Wwaaa you wanted to save my life by doing anything in your power, and now I'm getting really mad at you for it."

Please Savitar, do us all a favor, and finish the job.

This season of Flash sucks so much, it's like Olicity drama+Vandal Idiot level of idiocy, all-in-one.

[Svifnymr]

Okay so I'm confused, why did they break up? I mean forced drama obviously but from a story standpoint why? Because Barry proposed in a foolish attempt to stop her from dying... I mean I feel that's kind of a grey area, like it was dumb but also kind of understandable.

Well, I mean, she forgave him, then he dumped her. It's manufactured drama for sure. "I need space, so I can work hard to save your life, can't have your life distracting me", whatever. I still think Wally is a major prick for telling her, let alone that she broke it off because while they love each other, the proposal wasn't real because raisins.

Also is it just me or is future Barry kind of a dick? Like I get that Savatar is bad but that prison seems pretty damn harsh.

It's sort of interesting in a time loop sense. We don't know who Sav is yet, so maybe he was always a jerk. What we do know is that he destroys Central City, kills a bunch of Barry's friends, has "plans" for Quick and Killer Frost, and a bunch of other stuff. So, would he have done that stuff if Barry didn't lock him away? Would Barry have locked him away if he hadn't done that stuff?

I assume Wally and Quick are not "regulars" or something, so gotta find reasons to drop them out of episodes for stretches at a time? Aside from her obvious figure, Quick's outfit actually seems to fit better, Wally's looks very fake. Their romance also seems a bit meh, but hey, they're young, so whatever.

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Should shush all the non believers of the black flash being Zoom.

Is it actually him, or his charred hungry corpse? I don't think anyone doubted it was his body.

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This season of Flash sucks so much, it's like Olicity drama+Vandal Idiot level of idiocy, all-in-one.

Season 4 really needs to shake up the formula some.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

"Wwaaa you wanted to save my life by doing anything in your power, and now I'm getting really mad at you for it."

Please Savitar, do us all a favor, and finish the job.

This season of Flash sucks so much, it's like Olicity drama+Vandal Idiot level of idiocy, all-in-one.

I think people exaggerated the romance stuff. I've seen a lot of romance stuff but the CW stuff isn't that bad.

[Ravingmad]

My favorite character in the current season is Malefoy (Tom Felton), but pre-Alchemy saga. He was a refreshing character. Mean, straight to the point, kind of badass in a way.

What I hate now about the Arrow/FLash/DC'S LoT, is the constant characters guilt about something. Its always the "sub-subject" in the episodes, and that, since the beginning. And once they introduce a new character, they end up feeling guilty of something (Like Tom Felton's character is becoming). Yes it gives them a "purpose", but IMO it makes them look weak and that character ends up being boring. Like the Flashpoint story that "changed" everyone's life, but they wouldnt have known if Barry didnt tell them.

[Svifnymr]

I think people exaggerated the romance stuff. I've seen a lot of romance stuff but the CW stuff isn't that bad.

I think my main problem with it is that anytime someone becomes a "girlfriend" they have to get dumber and become a plot device. Like Iris, she's a reporter, but it isn't important anymore, she's just the plot device to motivate Barry now. Caitlin is like that too sometimes. Plus, you just get the feeling that they'll keep pulling the rug out anyway, so why get invested?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I think my main problem with it is that anytime someone becomes a "girlfriend" they have to get dumber and become a plot device. Like Iris, she's a reporter, but it isn't important anymore, she's just the plot device to motivate Barry now. Caitlin is like that too sometimes. Plus, you just get the feeling that they'll keep pulling the rug out anyway, so why get invested?

I don't really see it that way, I just see it as shit happens.

[CR77]

Is it actually him, or his charred hungry corpse? I don't think anyone doubted it was his body.

A few people over in the Legends thread were skeptic even after being linked the clip from last season where he was transformed into that exact state.

[Deleted]

What I hate now about the Arrow/FLash/DC'S LoT, is the constant characters guilt about something.

but but thats the base of CW shows....

[Jetstream]

We're all just going to have to accept that we're watching Super Hero Soap Operas, guys.

[Deleted]

Alright, I've spent some time thinking about this. Rewatched some scenes (the Savitar killing Iris scenes in particular) multiple times and a friend agrees that I might be onto something.
First, who was affected by flashpoint? Whose life was COMPLETELY changed by it? Whose death caused a ton of drama earlier this season? Who did Barry blame himself for "killing"? Dante, Cisco's brother.
He was completely fine and healthy for 2 whole seasons, up until Flashpoint happened. As far as we know, he's the only person who was killed by flashpoint(By the newly created timeline, not by the flashpoint timeline itself, but you get the idea). Of course, Barry's parents disappeared as well, but they were already dead in the original timeline. Dante was killed ONLY by flashpoint. Barry was stubborn about not going back in time to save Dante, even if it meant being hated by Cisco.
Now let's take a look at another point. In what forms have we seen Savitar? Yes, the megatron-like metallic blue energy guy. But we've seen him in another form. When Cisco opened the box to free Savitar earlier this season, he "hallucinated" Dante, which as we know, was Savitar manipulating him. Now yeah, this might mean nothing, especially since we've seen Savitar in Wally's mother's form. But this still could've been a hint of some sort. The difference between Wally and Cisco is that Wally has access to the speedforce and is able to see Savitar in his "god" form. While Cisco can't.
Now there are two more points I'd like to point out. One is that Dante's hair and silhouette match the guy from "Savitar's creation" scene, where Jay Garrick explained who Savitar was. Another point is that...well...Dante. We've seen the future vision 3 times in this season so far. Every single time, we hear Barry shout "DON'T! Don't do this!". What if he was actually saying "DANTE! Don't do this!"? Now OF COURSE it doesn't sound exactly like "Dante", but if it did, everything would be obvious. And a future vision like this simply might not be clear enough for it to be heard as "Dante". Not only that, but the whole situation, the distance, everything could prevent Barry from hearing what was really said that night.
Now there is just one problem with this theory. Last episode, when Jessie faced Savitar, he had this to say: "I knew you would come for me. Because I know everything that happens, I've already lived it!". And as we all know, Dante is dead and shouldn't have known anything about this. Let me know what you think!

[Gemini Soul]

Alright, I've spent some time thinking about this. Rewatched some scenes (the Savitar killing Iris scenes in particular) multiple times and a friend agrees that I might be onto something.
First, who was affected by flashpoint? Whose life was COMPLETELY changed by it? Whose death caused a ton of drama earlier this season? Who did Barry blame himself for "killing"? Dante, Cisco's brother.
He was completely fine and healthy for 2 whole seasons, up until Flashpoint happened. As far as we know, he's the only person who was killed by flashpoint(By the newly created timeline, not by the flashpoint timeline itself, but you get the idea). Of course, Barry's parents disappeared as well, but they were already dead in the original timeline. Dante was killed ONLY by flashpoint. Barry was stubborn about not going back in time to save Dante, even if it meant being hated by Cisco.
Now let's take a look at another point. In what forms have we seen Savitar? Yes, the megatron-like metallic blue energy guy. But we've seen him in another form. When Cisco opened the box to free Savitar earlier this season, he "hallucinated" Dante, which as we know, was Savitar manipulating him. Now yeah, this might mean nothing, especially since we've seen Savitar in Wally's mother's form. But this still could've been a hint of some sort. The difference between Wally and Cisco is that Wally has access to the speedforce and is able to see Savitar in his "god" form. While Cisco can't.
Now there are two more points I'd like to point out. One is that Dante's hair and silhouette match the guy from "Savitar's creation" scene, where Jay Garrick explained who Savitar was. Another point is that...well...Dante. We've seen the future vision 3 times in this season so far. Every single time, we hear Barry shout "DON'T! Don't do this!". What if he was actually saying "DANTE! Don't do this!"? Now OF COURSE it doesn't sound exactly like "Dante", but if it did, everything would be obvious. And a future vision like this simply might not be clear enough for it to be heard as "Dante". Not only that, but the whole situation, the distance, everything could prevent Barry from hearing what was really said that night.
Now there is just one problem with this theory. Last episode, when Jessie faced Savitar, he had this to say: "I knew you would come for me. Because I know everything that happens, I've already lived it!". And as we all know, Dante is dead and shouldn't have known anything about this. Let me know what you think!

It's not Dante, Savitar is clearly white while in that scene showing him using the stone and he was built muscle wise neither of which matches Dante. Also if it was Dante, Cisco would of been there for the Iris killing trying to talk him down. They also played the friend who is the bad guy with Alchemy, its the same shtick they used with the last 2 seasons. They aren't going to use it twice in one season, Savitar is a face we have never seen before.

[Archon14]

One is that Dante's hair and silhouette match the guy from "Savitar's creation" scene, where Jay Garrick explained who Savitar was.

In case you didn't know, Savitar in his "human form" was played by Daniel Cudmore, who played Colossus in the first X-men trilogy. Not sure if he's actually going to be Savitar though. I hope he is.

[ravenmoon]

What i find ironic is all the shit getting thrown at Barry for making Flashpoint but RF did the same thing, S1/2 was technically a Reverse-Flashpoint. He went back in time killed Barrys mom and thus created a new time line.

exactly, the current timeline shouldn't even exist.. and that's not barry's fault. not sure why erasing thorn didn't fix that.

[apepi]

Double bluff, Julian ends up becoming Savitar. I mean, he have to make Kaitlin's love love a greek tragedy right?

Also, seems like the next villain in season 4 will not be a speedster, cool.

[Shinrael]

It's not Dante, Savitar is clearly white while in that scene showing him using the stone and he was built muscle wise neither of which matches Dante.

Um, the vision was dark. Idk what race Dante (and Cisco as his brother) is supposed to be, but his skin colour isn't that much different from the guy in the vision. It's not all black and white you know. There are many nuances there and they are quite close. White and black are just labels. Now if he was an african, the difference would've been obvious, but he isn't, so your point is invalid. Also, Dante can totally have muscles in his current state, we've never seen him naked. Plus, he can build some up! So yeah, point invalid.

Also if it was Dante, Cisco would of been there for the Iris killing trying to talk him down. They also played the friend who is the bad guy with Alchemy, its the same shtick they used with the last 2 seasons. They aren't going to use it twice in one season, Savitar is a face we have never seen before.

And this is just random stuff that doesn't mean anything. Alchemy was never a friend. Julian wasn't either, but he became one. Dante isn't exactly a friend being the bad guy. He doesn't even take part (physically) in this season. He is just a plot tool. Unless he is Savitar. Then he is simply an enemy, not a friend. We're talking about Dante from the timeline after Flashpoint, not original timeline pre-FP.

[ravenmoon]

Julian is ALCHEMY , not Savitar.

i like that Savitar's identity is a big secrte, makes the reveal more important, however his identity is not a huge thing here as it was for Zoom.

[Gemini Soul]

Um, the vision was dark. Idk what race Dante (and Cisco as his brother) is supposed to be, but his skin colour isn't that much different from the guy in the vision. It's not all black and white you know. There are many nuances there and they are quite close. White and black are just labels. Now if he was an african, the difference would've been obvious, but he isn't, so your point is invalid. Also, Dante can totally have muscles in his current state, we've never seen him naked. Plus, he can build some up! So yeah, point invalid.

Go watch the S3E9, with Savitar and the stone the guy is clearly white. He is tall, his arms are very well built and thick, his skin is clearly white no where near as dark as Dante and his hair is sandy blonde/very light brown while Dante has the typical extremely dark brown/black hair of a Hispanic male along with the skin tone.

Go watch S3E9 and pause it on the scene of Savitar non-armor and you can clearly see all of this. There is no way its Dante, google Dante heck you even see him in that episode its clearly not him.

And this is just random stuff that doesn't mean anything. Alchemy was never a friend. Julian wasn't either, but he became one. Dante isn't exactly a friend being the bad guy. He doesn't even take part (physically) in this season. He is just a plot tool. Unless he is Savitar. Then he is simply an enemy, not a friend. We're talking about Dante from the timeline after Flashpoint, not original timeline pre-FP.

Random stuff? It all adds up and its VERY valid points, the last 2 seasons both big bads were people who where on a majority of the season in Barrys life not suited up Wells/Jay. They did this with Alchemy and reversed it, disliked character to friend. They are not going to pull another person like Dante an acquaintance/family of the team and make him the big bad. That would be moronic playing that card TWICE this season when its been played the last 2 seasons all ready. Savitar is going to be a speedster whos face we and the team has never seen before.

[CR77]

Savitar wasn't created by Flashpoint, it gave him the opportunity to escape the speed force prison future Barry had put him in, so Dante would make no sense simply because he died due to Flashpoint. He already existed in the future without Flashpoint happening.

[Morally Grey Storm]

There was a time a was happy watching ze Flash.
Now it's almost Arrow-levels of awful.
Empty drama, bad acting, sleazy protagonist gushing gasting, and awful action scenes.
Oh, and H.R.
I don't want to even start on H.R.
Or on Grodd and Grodd-related series.