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  1. #41
    Deleted
    Louie from MMATycoon? :P (If so I'm the dude from Aspire)

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Louie De Palma View Post
    What.

    The Fuck.

    Are you talking about?

    Not an authorized sales outlet? Blizzard merchandise? I buy a key with my own battlenet balance and then sell it to someone else.

    Again, what the fuck are you even talking about.

    None of us own our in-game assets? What in-game assets? I'm not trying to sell BoE gear in WoW. I have game keys. I own them. I bought them. I sell them. There is nothing illegal about this. It would be like saying I can't go into a store, buy a game, and then sell it on ebay. This is ridiculous, you have no clue what you are talking about.

    "Selling a gift", oh my god, it is called a gift on the site, because you can put in the email adress of a friend and send it directly to him. You can also just use your own email adress. There is nothing illegal about this and it isn't against the ToS. You put in your own email adress and they send you the key. You own the key. It is no different than if they send you a replacement key for upgrading your game to the Collector's Edition. It's a key like any other.

    Seriously guys, inform yourselves before posting.
    TL;DR:
    Yes, it's possible. No, it's not legal. Get educated and stop assuming we aren't.
    You don't own anything. Your subscription grants you access to their content.

    Extended:
    Perhaps you are the one who needs to be informed. Here's the:

    Specifically, quoting the EULA:
    Blizzard is the owner or licensee of all right, title, and interest in and to the Battle.net Client, Battle.net, the Games, Accounts, and all of the features and components thereof. Battle.net and the Games may contain materials licensed by third-parties to Blizzard, and these third-parties may enforce their ownership rights against you in the event that you violate this Agreement.
    Blizzard then gets more specific stating that it owns all virtual content appearing within Battle.net or the Games, all data and communications, all sounds, all recordings and replays, code, accounts, titles, and the right to create derivative works.

    Quoting the ToU:
    Subject to your agreement to and continuing compliance with the Blizzard Agreements, you may use the Service solely for your own non-commercial entertainment purposes by accessing it with an authorized, unmodified Game Client. You may not use the Service for any other purpose, or in connection with any other software.
    In the same document:
    NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN ANY ACCOUNT STORED OR HOSTED ON A BLIZZARD SYSTEM, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY BNET ACCOUNT OR WORLD OF WARCRAFT ACCOUNT, AND YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO SUCH ACCOUNTS ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF BLIZZARD.
    Also posted in the ToU:
    Blizzard owns, has licensed, or otherwise has rights to all of the content that appears in the Game. You agree that you have no right or title in or to any such content, including without limitation the virtual goods or currency appearing or originating in the Game, or any other attributes associated with any Account. Blizzard does not recognize any purported transfers of virtual property executed outside of the Game, or the purported sale, gift or trade in the “real world” of anything that appears or originates in the Game. Accordingly, you may not sell in-game items or currency for “real” money, or exchange those items or currency for value outside of the Game.

  3. #43
    I've actually encountered yesterday a couple(!!!) of bots, so if they don't care about this problem I think you'll just do fine selling bnet gifts on ebay

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Louie De Palma View Post
    Why would I get banned for that?
    It is simple - it is against the rules to turn Gold into real money .... you get banned/suspended for breaking the rules.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  5. #45
    As long as you live in the EU the procedure you describe would definitely be legal by the law, and wont break EULA or ToU.

    The first step of buying tokens, redeeming these and purchasing keys is obviously within the intended use of the system. So, I see no EULA or ToU violations here Blizzard could ban you for. The question then remains if you are allowed to sell game keys for real money. In the EU you would be fine to sell it as in the EU the copyright holder to a computer program looses their distribution rights to that entity after the first sale [reference]. In-game items such as pets/mounts/skins/gold and service agreements such as your account are not covered by that ruling and would still constitute a violation if resold.

    To be entirely clear. The only licencing agreement that applies to the game keys is the EULA which you agree upon when purchasing. If the EULA contains a clause stating that you are not allowed to resell the product unless authorized, then reselling it would be a copyright law violation in many countries. In the EU such a clause is not legally binding and you would be allowed to redistribute the product (key) in any way you see fit.

  6. #46
    The EU ToU prohibits sale as well.

    http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/wow_tou.html
    Grant of a Limited License to Use the Service. Subject to your agreement to and continuing compliance with the Blizzard Agreements, Blizzard Entertainment hereby grants, and you hereby accept, a limited, revocable, non-transferable, non-sublicensable, non-exclusive license to use the Service solely for your own non-commercial entertainment purposes by accessing it with an authorized, unmodified Game Client. You may not use the Service for any other purpose, or in connection with any other software.
    Remember, at the outset of these Terms of Use, where we discussed how you were "licensed" the right to use World of Warcraft, and that your license was "limited"? Well, here is one of the more important areas where these license limitations come into effect. Note that Blizzard Entertainment either owns, or has exclusively licensed, all of the content which appears in World of Warcraft. Therefore, no one has the right to "sell" Blizzard Entertainment's content, except Blizzard Entertainment! So Blizzard Entertainment does not recognize any property claims outside of World of Warcraft or the purported sale, gift or trade in the "real world" of anything related to World of Warcraft. Accordingly, you may not sell or purchase virtual items for "real" money or exchange items outside of World of Warcraft. Please note that Blizzard is entitled to and will prevent any such illegal sales.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Taira View Post
    The WoW ToU disallow the sale of the wow account, which is a license agreement for the WoW account and does not apply to selling of game keys neither wow game keys from which an account have not been made yet nor any other game keys.

    Even if any of the agreement you signed said you weren't allowed to resell game keys, such a clause would be void. It's not legal for Blizzard to restrict you in any way from reselling game keys you own if you live in the EU.

    Furthermore quite literally, once you have transferred the game key out of your battle.net account, it is it's own legal entity for which only the EULA applies. The same EULA which applies when you purchase a physical copy in a store.

    Blizzard have now provided a legal, non-bannable way to convert wow gold into legally transferble items which is why I bet they have been somewhat reluctant to allow us to convert tokens into battle.net balance in the first place. But, to be clear Blizzard isn't exactly loosing out on this deal. For every person buying a game key from a player, someone else have payed Blizzard money for a WoW token at a steep 20-25% markup. So blizzard is making 20-25% more from customers buying keys this way then if they bought the keys directly from Blizzard.
    Last edited by Emrus; 2017-03-15 at 11:53 PM.

  8. #48
    I don't know the in's and out's of the EU legal system but it's pretty clear to me that Blizzard hasn't granted ownership of in-game content. The same thing applies to the stuff derived from in-game content. e.g. Gold belongs to them. The battle.net balance, while the player has access to it as a currency, is still Blizzard's. And the game time codes aren't product keys purchased from a retailer, nor are they licenses; they're consumable codes, which means those belong to Blizzard as well.

    And, even if this is all moot due to the EU legal system, Blizzard retains the right to terminate access to an account and stop billing based on their own terms of use.

    Is it likely that the OP will get singled out? Not unless they manage to turn an eBay page into a very profitable shop.
    Is Blizzard within their rights to do something about it? Yes.

  9. #49
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louie De Palma View Post
    Why would I get banned to begin with for this? I don't use a bot. I earn my gold legally. I've already bought 37 tokens, if I wanna use my battlenet balance to buy keys, what's the problem? Is there anything saying that the person that receives the key actually has to be friends with me? You put in the email adress of the person who should receive the gift. So you sell the key on ebay, and then purchase the key from the battlenet shop, using the email of the person who won the auction.

    Can someone point out to me what is supposed to be banworthy about this?




    Because you don't have permission from blizzard to sell that game time on E-bay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie De Palma View Post
    What.

    The Fuck.

    Are you talking about?

    Not an authorized sales outlet? Blizzard merchandise? I buy a key with my own battlenet balance and then sell it to someone else.

    Again, what the fuck are you even talking about.

    None of us own our in-game assets? What in-game assets? I'm not trying to sell BoE gear in WoW. I have game keys. I own them. I bought them. I sell them. There is nothing illegal about this. It would be like saying I can't go into a store, buy a game, and then sell it on ebay. This is ridiculous, you have no clue what you are talking about.

    "Selling a gift", oh my god, it is called a gift on the site, because you can put in the email adress of a friend and send it directly to him. You can also just use your own email adress. There is nothing illegal about this and it isn't against the ToS. You put in your own email adress and they send you the key. You own the key. It is no different than if they send you a replacement key for upgrading your game to the Collector's Edition. It's a key like any other.

    Seriously guys, inform yourselves before posting.


    YOu seem to have already made up your mind. So why bother asking?

  10. #50
    The Lightbringer
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    You can gift a key, you can't sell it.

    Depending on your country it may also be illegal

  11. #51
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taira View Post
    TL;DR:
    Yes, it's possible. No, it's not legal. Get educated and stop assuming we aren't.
    You don't own anything. Your subscription grants you access to their content.

    Extended:
    Perhaps you are the one who needs to be informed. Here's the:

    Specifically, quoting the EULA:

    Blizzard then gets more specific stating that it owns all virtual content appearing within Battle.net or the Games, all data and communications, all sounds, all recordings and replays, code, accounts, titles, and the right to create derivative works.

    Quoting the ToU:


    In the same document:


    Also posted in the ToU:
    Non of that is relevant to the ability for a person to sell a game key. it's all about copyrights, digital assets and the like.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Taira View Post
    This bit
    Blizzard owns, has licensed, or otherwise has rights to all of the content that appears in the Game. You agree that you have no right or title in or to any such content, including without limitation the virtual goods or currency appearing or originating in the Game, or any other attributes associated with any Account. Blizzard does not recognize any purported transfers of virtual property executed outside of the Game, or the purported sale, gift or trade in the “real world” of anything that appears or originates in the Game. Accordingly, you may not sell in-game items or currency for “real” money, or exchange those items or currency for value outside of the Game.
    MIGHT apply. It certainly would to the token but I'm not at all sure it does for game keys which are not an in game thing.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Griffter View Post
    I believe this was the big controversy when the tokens were first introduced, right?
    No. You could only use the tokens for game time before. The controversy was that you could use real money to get in game gold, not the other way around.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Non of that is relevant to the ability for a person to sell a game key. it's all about copyrights, digital assets and the like.
    You have to be careful when throwing around the "game key" term because people are going to apply that to different situations. "Key" is often used as a term referring to a code on the product packaging, or provided when purchasing software online. It's a unique identifier which validates that a user has purchased a legitimate copy of said software, or a license to use said software.

    In this scenario, he's talking about a code that adds time to a subscription. It's not the same as purchasing a game or a license. You also have to consider that the code is derived from an in-game currency by converting it into store credit. The OP is not purchasing an item using real money, which is why these bits still apply:
    Blizzard is the owner or licensee of all right, title, and interest in and to the Battle.net Client, Battle.net, the Games, Accounts, and all of the features and components thereof.
    Subject to your agreement to and continuing compliance with the Blizzard Agreements, you may use the Service solely for your own non-commercial entertainment purposes by accessing it with an authorized, unmodified Game Client. You may not use the Service for any other purpose, or in connection with any other software.
    And, specifically, this part:
    Blizzard owns, has licensed, or otherwise has rights to all of the content that appears in the Game. You agree that you have no right or title in or to any such content, including without limitation the virtual goods or currency appearing or originating in the Game, or any other attributes associated with any Account. Blizzard does not recognize any purported transfers of virtual property executed outside of the Game, or the purported sale, gift or trade in the “real world” of anything that appears or originates in the Game. Accordingly, you may not sell in-game items or currency for “real” money, or exchange those items or currency for value outside of the Game.

  14. #54
    Pretty sure that if Blizzard found out about it, you'd get a ban rather swiftly. How they would find out about it is another case. But yeah, you're not allowed to sell ingame content for real life currency, in this game the content is the gold which you turn into tokens and in the end sell for real life currence as game keys on Ebay. All in all - a long route to sell gold, with small gains.

    Also, instead of farming 6 mill gold, you could go and work for 10-20 hours and earn more than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by S7orm View Post
    You can gift a key, you can't sell it.

    Depending on your country it may also be illegal
    Depending on your country it may be illegal for Blizzard to try to stop you from selling it.

    Not every government is 100% bought and paid for by corporate interests the way the USA is.

  16. #56
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Feederino Senpai View Post
    Pretty sure that if Blizzard found out about it, you'd get a ban rather swiftly.
    I still have seen no explanation here why I would get a ban for this. None of this is illegal or against the ToS.

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