Blizzard have effectively gotten rid of flying

[SirCowdog]

Like I always say in these threads, if you don't want to do the content to get Flying. Why do you even need Flying?

Because getting flying doesn't leave any content to use flying on.

Because the amount of work and time required to unlock flight doesn't match the value of what flying can be used on.

This isn't about being too lazy to do the work, or about not being a good enough player. It's about recognizing how poorly flight is being treated and designed in the expansion. If you can't tell the difference, then you haven't bothered to fully understand the situation, and your opinion is lesser for it.

[WowIsDead64]

I get what you're saying for sure. It's definitely just a difference of opinions, and the challenge for Blizzard is how do they enable flying for those who enjoy it (or even rely on it for fun, in your case, and probably many others), while preserving their intended game systems. WoW is and always has been (barring Vash'jir) a ground-only game. Flight is a means of transportation from one content to another, and with so many flight paths, plus the flightmaster's whistle, I find it totally superfluous right now.

That said, it is fun to fly, so I get why people aren't happy about flight being time-restricted. Hopefully they can figure out a better alternative. WoW has always appealed to such a wide range of folks (by design) that Blizz has a happy problem of trying to make the game work for everyone.

What was wrong with previous implementation, when Blizzard had dedicated no-flying locations, like Tol Barad? Other world was dead? Yeah, it was dead. But only because Blizzard didn't provide any new content beyond leveling. What we need - is one flying location and one no flying one with new content in every patch.

Bad thing about current Blizzard devs - they prefer "compromises", not creative solutions. Cuz compromise is, as Ghostcrawler have said, solution, that most likely won't satisfy both sides. Creative solution - is when you use some smart mechanic to satisfy both sides at once. All we know, is that according to Blizzard, they "tried" different solutions and nothing worked - so complete removal of flying is the only way to solve this problem. But something suggests me, that they haven't even tried.

For example, what they refuse to even try - to allow flying, but to use some dismounting mechanic in certain location, till all content in this particular location won't be completed at least once. What they want - is some lazy "switch flip" solution.

[Deleted]

What was wrong with previous implementation, when Blizzard had dedicated no-flying locations, like Tol Barad? Other world was dead? Yeah, it was dead. But only because Blizzard didn't provide any new content beyond leveling. What we need - is one flying location and one no flying one with new content in every patch.

Bad thing about current Blizzard devs - they prefer "compromises", not creative solutions. Cuz compromise is, as Ghostcrawler have said, solution, that most likely won't satisfy both sides. Creative solution - is when you use some smart mechanic to satisfy both sides at once. All we know, is that according to Blizzard, they "tried" different solutions and nothing worked - so complete removal of flying is the only way to solve this problem. But something suggests me, that they haven't even tried.

For example, what they refuse to even try - to allow flying, but to use some dismounting mechanic in certain location, till all content in this particular location won't be completed at least once.

People complain about being dismounted on ground mounts now, can you imagine the backlash from being dismounted mid air, dying in the middle of nowhere with a long corpse run?
Do you think that would be a clever system?
There's no way around it, flying levels everything and they don't want that.

[WowIsDead64]

People complain about being dismounted on ground mounts now, can you imagine the backlash from being dismounted mid air, dying in the middle of nowhere with a long corpse run?
Do you think that would be a clever system?
There's no way around it, flying levels everything and they don't want that.

One thing, that always makes me wonder - are Blizzard one of the best game developers in a world or who? Problems, like this, are TRIVIAL. First of - you would know, where flying is unlocked for you and where it isn't. Simply because you would know, what content would be completed and what wouldn't. Map indication, like archeology dig area? No? Second - grace period can be given to you to return back to flying area. Third - parachutes? Gliders? No? As we know, nothing bad would happen, if players would be able to glide to spot, they would want. What Blizzard don't want - they don't want you to fly INSIDE location, i.e., let's say, from one mob to another. Or may be some flying guard, that take you to nearest flight path point? No? Is it really that hard? Blizzard had plenty of time since release of MOP to develop or at least test better solution. And they have wasted this time.

[Deleted]

It's a bit silly when you think the only reason why flying is blocked is so some world designer ego feels fulfilled. Apparantly, it's not enough going through leveling without flying... we must look really good at all the objects and mountains they placed because one time is not the same as hundreads!

[Deleted]

One thing, that always makes me wonder - are Blizzard one of the best game developers in a world or who? Problems, like this, are TRIVIAL. First of - you would know, where flying is unlocked for you and where it isn't. Simply because you would know, what content would be completed and what wouldn't. Map indication, like archeology dig area? No? Second - grace period can be given to you to return back to flying area. Third - parachutes? Gliders? No? As we know, nothing bad would happen, if players would be able to glide to spot, they would want. What Blizzard don't want - they don't want you to fly INSIDE location, i.e., let's say, from one mob to another. Or may be some flying guard, that take you to nearest flight path point? No? Is it really that hard? Blizzard had plenty of time since release of MOP to develop or at least test better solution. And they have wasted this time.

I can't understand what you're saying.

[WowIsDead64]

It's a bit silly when you think the only reason why flying is blocked is so some world designer ego feels fulfilled. Apparantly, it's not enough going through leveling without flying... we must look really good at all the objects and mountains they placed because one time is not the same as hundreads!

Blizzard don't want to admit, that they just don't want players to fly, cuz it would mean no-flying favoritism, i.e. catering to players with specific playstyles, like PVPer and explorers, while alienating other half of their playerbase - so they find other reasons to remove it. This is the whole reason, why this discussion is still continuing. Because Blizzard gave us their reasons, like immersion and experiencing content some proper way for the first time, and then just went radio silence. And their reasoning is doubtful. Such as, if you want us to see whole content, then why flying during, let's say, leveling should be delayed till some arbitrary patch in mid xpack? The reason is simple - they just want to "effectively remove flying" till some specific arbitrary date.

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I can't understand what you're saying.

Features, that would be better flying compromise, aren't that hard to implement - at least not harder, than solutions, Blizzard implemented to push no flying, i.e. flight paths overhaul, whistle, etc.

[Drusin]

They really have. By only enabling it when it doesn't matter anymore.

7.2 will enable flying, but it will be done after people have spent months on the Broken Isles doing their quests while not flying. After we unlock it, that will probably be it in terms of content, before they release the Argus patch. At that point we won't need to fly on the Broken Isles, because we'll be on Argus, which will probably be not flyable either.

It's just like with WoD, where we were only able to fly once nobody needed to anymore anyway. Because the expansion was over. When the flying patch came out, I had 2 days of gametime left. And I didn't renew my sub at that point and went on a 1-year break, because the expansion was over anyway.

This will be the standard now. Flying is gone.

Herbs /10yolos

[Deleted]

Blizzard don't want to admit, that they just don't want players to fly, cuz it would mean no-flying favoritism, i.e. catering to players with specific playstyles, like PVPer and explorers, while alienating other half of their playerbase - so they find other reasons to remove it. This is the whole reason, why this discussion is still continuing. Because Blizzard gave us their reasons, like immersion and experiencing content some proper way for the first time, and then just went radio silence. And their reasoning is doubtful. Such as, if you want us to see whole content, then why flying during, let's say, leveling should be delayed till some arbitrary patch in mid xpack? The reason is simple - they just want to "effectively remove flying" till some specific arbitrary date.

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Features, that would be better flying compromise, aren't that hard to implement - at least not harder, than solutions, Blizzard implemented to push no flying, i.e. flight path overhaul, whistle, etc.

Please do provide examples of features you'd like to see that aren't hard to implement.
I'm really curios.

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Blizzard don't want to admit, that they just don't want players to fly, cuz it would mean no-flying favoritism, i.e. catering to players with specific playstyles, like PVPer and explorers, while alienating other half of their playerbase - so they find other reasons to remove it. This is the whole reason, why this discussion is still continuing. Because Blizzard gave us their reasons, like immersion and experiencing content some proper way for the first time, and then just went radio silence. And their reasoning is doubtful. Such as, if you want us to see whole content, then why flying during, let's say, leveling should be delayed till some arbitrary patch in mid xpack? The reason is simple - they just want to "effectively remove flying" till some specific arbitrary date.

Yes, your problem being?

[Razzako]

Yeah, you have never played Vanilla.

Vanilla never had frustrating terrain like this.

I think this is the stupidest thing I've read in this site. On top of horrible terrain, Vanilla also had horrible graveyards. Not sure if stupid or just trolling.

[WowIsDead64]

Please do provide examples of features you'd like to see that aren't hard to implement.
I'm really curios.

Quoting exactly that three posts, where everything is explained, and still asking for explanations? Is it real trolling or you need L2Read?

[Deleted]

Quoting exactly that three posts, where everything is explained, and still asking for explanations? Is it real trolling or you need L2Read?

You propose absolutely nothing. Gliders and parachutes? I need more details. Surely you can't be thinking that's enough?

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I think this is the stupidest thing I've read in this site. On top of horrible terrain, Vanilla also had horrible graveyards. Not sure if stupid or just trolling.

Thousand needles

Seriously, that is a ridiculous claim.

[WowIsDead64]

You propose absolutely nothing. Gliders and parachutes? I need more details. Surely you can't be thinking that's enough?

For example, what they refuse to even try - to allow flying, but to use some dismounting mechanic in certain location, till all content in this particular location won't be completed at least once.

Please, read posts next time, so I won't need to repeat, what I've already said. What compromise would be enough for me? Simple thing - partial unlock of flying. If I wouldn't need to wait for a year to enable flying in content, that obsoletes within a week after xpack's release. Plus I wouldn't need to do content, I don't like and wouldn't do (like Suramar), in order to unlock flying in content, I like.

[Deleted]

Please, read posts next time, so I won't need to repeat, what I've already said. What compromise would be enough for me? Simple thing - partial unlock of flying. If I wouldn't need to wait for a year to enable flying in content, that obsoletes within a week after xpack's release. Plus I wouldn't need to do content, I don't like and wouldn't do (like Suramar), in order to unlock flying in content, I like.

Maybe you did not understand my post.
I'll try again.

I need you to give more details. What do you mean by "dismount mechanism" and how are you going to implement it? Parachute? Gliders? Big difference in the two.
What do you mean by "partial unlock of flying"?
If you're THAT guy that doesn't enjoy suramar, what makes you think the game should compromise with you?

[Deleted]

Because there was nothing to really do in WoD, I forgot how much I missed flying. I had everything I needed in my garrison and I could get summoned to raids. They also kind of fooled me when they brought it back at the end of WoD. I thought flight in Legion would be given us to early after seeing the content.

Instead blizzard has decided on making everything in the game a tedious grind that allows them to skimp on content. I plan on using some gold to get my raven mount, then I will quit and hope the next expansion is worth playing. If they continue with this method I will probably never return.

Three cheers!

[WowIsDead64]

Maybe you did not understand my post.
I'll try again.

I need you to give more details. What do you mean by "dismount mechanism" and how are you going to implement it? Parachute? Gliders? Big difference in the two.
What do you mean by "partial unlock of flying"?

What goal is needed to be accomplished? Player is able to fly in location X and can't fly in location Y. Smooth transition between this two locations is needed. Everything else - is just technical details. There are many ways to achieve the same goal. Devs' job - is to pick the best one. It can be dismounting with parachute, that is usually used in quests, it can be gliding in order to allow player to pick safer place for landing (Firefall style), it can be guards, taking players to some fixed spot (also used in quests), it can be simple teleporting, that is used in scenarios (remember WOD outdoor scenarios?). There is no definite answer, what solution is better. Testing and collecting feedback are needed. But Blizzard refuse to even try.

If you're THAT guy that doesn't enjoy suramar, what makes you think the game should compromise with you?

And you're THAT guy, who doesn't understand, that content in Wow ISN'T SOLID - it consists of parts, that suit different players with different playstyles and preferences. Suramar - is content for so called "explorers". Players, who like to explore terrain and game's lore. I'm not such kind of player - I hate such content as much, as PVEers hate PVP. Do you understand, that some players play on PVE servers to avoid PVP? Understand? Forcing me to do Suramar - is the same bad idea, as forcing PVE player to play on PVP server. So, stop using this "If you don't like content X - you don't like Wow" strawman argument.

[Deleted]

What goal is needed to be accomplished? Player is able to fly in location X and can't fly in location Y. Smooth transition between this two locations is needed. Everything else - is just technical details. There are many ways to achieve the same goal. Devs' job - is to pick the best one. It can be dismounting with parachute, that is usually used in quests, it can be gliding in order to allow player to pick safer place for landing (Firefall style), it can be guards, taking players to some fixed spot (also used in quests), it can be simple teleporting, that is used in scenarios (remember WOD outdoor scenarios?). There is no definite answer, what solution is better. Testing and collecting feedback are needed. But Blizzard refuse to even try.


And you're THAT guy, who doesn't understand, that content in Wow ISN'T SOLID - it consists of parts, that suit different players with different playstyles and preferences. Suramar - is content for so called "explorers". Players, who like to explore terrain and game's lore. I'm not such kind of player - I hate such content as much, as PVEers hate PVP. Do you understand, that some players play on PVE servers to avoid PVP? Understand? Forcing me to do Suramar - is the same bad idea, as forcing PVE player to play on PVP server. So, stop using this "If you don't like content X - you don't like Wow" strawman argument.

I understand. What YOU dont understand that wow still is a rpg game. The developers claimed that themselves. So if you want to play wow you play a rpg. For the love of God I cannot understand WHY should the developers compromise with YOU. Who the fuck are you?
Content in Wow IS solid. It's a mmorpg based on the warcraft fantasy world, so the content will be based on these parameters. So you quest in suramar or don't access some of the content gated behind it.
You don't like it? Not my problem, change game.

"Smooth transition between locations is needed". Yes, exactly. Like wintergrasp. And people complained cause they couldn't fly over it during pvp battles. It's awkward. Why would they want to do that? They done it already. It's not like they haven't done it before. They obviously didn't like the system and they decided not to implement flying until later on.

[WowIsDead64]

wow still is a rpg game

[Deleted]

That's what the developers claim. You know, the people who DEVELOP the game.
What you claim, some unknown forum dweller, is of no importance.
You play wow, you play a mmoRPG based on warcraft fantasy, so go do your suramar.

[WowIsDead64]

That's what the developers claim. You know, the people who DEVELOP the game.
What you claim, some unknown forum dweller, is of no importance.
You play wow, you play a mmoRPG based on warcraft fantasy, so go do your suramar.

Second fallacy in a row. RPG? Do I need to list all RPG elements, that have been destroyed recently or you will understand, that your argument is very weak strawman attempt by yourself? For example. Do you personally use transmogs? M? Character boosts? How about scaled leveling? CRZ? Sharding? Mobs, respawning faster, than you kill them? PVP stat templates? Wow Tokens? How all this crap is being explained? Yeah... It's MAGIC!

And also. RPG - is exact kind of game, where it's YOU, who choose the way, you play the game. YOU choose destiny of your character. Whether he is Male of Female, Horde or Alliance, Orc or Human, Paladin or Rogue, good or bad, PVPer or PVEer, explorer or achiever, can or can't fly. If game is totally scripted and doesn't give you any choice, except playing according to some predefined scenario - then it's NOT RPG. It's ARCADE. It's freakin Super Mario, where you don't have any other choice, except going towards right side of screen and saving princess. Wow isn't MMORPG anymore - it's MMORNG with MOBA elements in best case.