Arthas redemption path in Argus?

[Captain Douchebag]

I'm guessing you haven't read the Arthas book.

I'm guessing I have. What is your point?

Legion is all because of Gul'dan, Gul'dan is from AU... can't ignore it, or else you ignore Legion.

Gul'dan was one of the very few interesting things to come out of WoD. I'm not ignoring AU Draenor, I'm saying they should refrain from doing such a thing again.

[bison91]

Alternate Universe shit fucked up lore enough already.

totally agree on that. to me its started ruining with the bronze dragonflight.

[MikeBogina]

I'm guessing I have. What is your point?

just that he was made heavily to be a good person at heart who made mistakes and was highly relatable compared to all the other characters. Especially the part you say selfish, he was the opposite.

Gul'dan was one of the very few interesting things to come out of WoD. I'm not ignoring AU Draenor, I'm saying they should refrain from doing such a thing again.

The fact that it was a timetravel expansion just ruined it for me. The lengths they went to also try and make it feel less of a time travel expansion also made the content sour, but Gul'dan was a very good character to get out of it.

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totally agree on that. to me its started ruining with the bronze dragonflight.

Time Travel ruined the entire Warcraft lore

[Trollhammer]

Time Travel ruined the entire Warcraft lore

I agree. It was fine as "Small pockets" Like going back to Strathholme and Black Morass (I just like to think we are removed from the memory of Thrall, Arthas after we return to our time).. But as major plot points I hate it. I hate it in comic, etc too though so It just a pet peeve.

[Captain Douchebag]

just that he was made heavily to be a good person at heart who made mistakes and was highly relatable compared to all the other characters. Especially the part you say selfish, he was the opposite.

The selfish part was actually edited out before you responded to me.

Early on, he was obsessed him proving himself to both Uther and his father.

As a paladin, he was rather reckless and impatient. He was terribly prideful aswell. In terms of his personality, he wasn't exactly the embodiment of a good paladin.

Now his quest to stop the scourge may have started with good intensions to save his people, but from the moment he met Kel'thuzad, it very quickly turned into "I give zero shits about anything other than my revenge!".

Anyone who wouldn't blindly follow him in his obsession with revenge, just became obstacles to him.

Now I'm not sayin he was outright evil from the beginning, he had good intensions early on. I'm saying he wasn't this "misunderstood, perfectly good guy", who only did what he did for the good of his people.

Many people paint him as "He sacrificed everything to save his people, such a noble good-hearted man", even though the majority of what he did, was because he was obsessed with proving himself and his lust for revenge.

[Eon Drache]

It's really really simple.

is there other azeroths? Yes. Do those other Azeroths have Azerothians? Yes, in fact they have dopplegangers of existing ones.... guess what they means?? That means that the Titans came, beat the Old Gods, left their races and then YoggSaron hit them with the Curse of Flesh. Which means there's a World Soul.

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Because we already do love MU Arthas

I'm trying to find the post that states our Azeroth is "Special". Our timeline is called the "Prime Azeroth" in a "true timeline".

[Qualia]

I'm trying to find the post that states our Azeroth is "Special". Our timeline is called the "Prime Azeroth" in a "true timeline".

Yes, we are the true timeline. That much is correct (and was stated by both Blizzard and in books IIRC). That doesn't mean our Azeroth is the only one with a World Soul, though.

[Deleted]

Paladins were nobles and nights given training in priestly magics as a direct result of the losses of the first war and needing something to fight the warlocks of the horde. That's the catalyst, the knights of Tyr just sat by their lake above the crypt and didn't do jack shit. Without that training Uther and Tirion are just soldiers and nobles and that's about it, probably the most exciting thing either would do is assist in putting down a troll uprising by the Amani.

Yeah. That's wrong... Also last I checked they were called the Tyr's Guard... The Knights of the Silver Hand were established by Alonsus Faol, both to fight the warlocks but also the death knights of the Horde. The first members were not knights and nobles... They were PRIESTS and Knights. Priests trained in martial combat like knights, and knights trained in the ethics and ways of the priest. Turalyon for example was a PRIEST before becoming one of the first paladins. The whole idea was created due to how massively the clerics of Northshire failed against the Horde. They were the first targeted and with their lacking combat knowledge they were so very vulnerable.

Also they were AWESOME for morale.

[MikeBogina]

I'm trying to find the post that states our Azeroth is "Special". Our timeline is called the "Prime Azeroth" in a "true timeline".

Of course ours is the main one, in the way that it's the one we see and focus on. But the others exist and the single, One Legion is out to get all the universes equally. All the universes matter. You wont see that in game, as blizzard will most likely steer away from multiple universes since they proved they are horrible at anything time-wimey.

But those universes do exist and you only have your imagination as to what they will be going through, moving forward. I imagine Warcraft 4 is gonna show us that WoW was an alternative timeline and that the RTS series is the main one xD

[HeiAggra]

Bring Arthas back so we can kill him again

[Eon Drache]

Of course ours is the main one, in the way that it's the one we see and focus on. But the others exist and the single, One Legion is out to get all the universes equally. All the universes matter. You wont see that in game, as blizzard will most likely steer away from multiple universes since they proved they are horrible at anything time-wimey.

But those universes do exist and you only have your imagination as to what they will be going through, moving forward. I imagine Warcraft 4 is gonna show us that WoW was an alternative timeline and that the RTS series is the main one xD

It is the main one even outside the fact that its the one we focus on. The titans called ours the main one, Nozdormu does. Lorewise our timeline is the one to protect the most. It is the truth.

[Sangris]

Stop trying to bring Arthas back already. He was an asshole before picking up Frostmourne and he was an asshole after doing it.

As much as I dislike the new direction they're going with Illidan, bringing him back made way more sense than bringing Arthas back, because TBC was just a mess story wise. Arthas actually got a fitting end unlike Illidan did.

The hard-on some people have for this guy is ridiculous.

Also, AU Draenor and anything that deals with alternate timelines for that matter, are best left forgotten.

This so much. Bringing him back would also cheapen his story to oblivion.

Also Blizzard have shown with WoD that they can't do alternate timeline stuff right, I wouldn't mind if it was properly executed, but that's not the case with Blizzard.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I imagine him showing up and going "oh hey sylvanas bygones by bygones am I right?" And then he disappears and no one knows where he went. But some people think his was buried at the giants stadium.

[MikeBogina]

It is the main one even outside the fact that its the one we focus on. The titans called ours the main one, Nozdormu does. Lorewise our timeline is the one to protect the most. It is the truth.

There's a set of Titans for each universe... Only demons transcend all timelines.

There's a set of aspects for each universe... Nozdormu talks about possible timelines, for our universe, but that doesn't include the actual other ones that do exist. There's not one Nozdormu patrolling millions of universes.

Lore wise, all timelines are the ones to protect the most, to those inhabitants. We're not gonna see 100's of portals open up and see 100's of alliances and hordes pouring into our timeline cause it's the most important one. Though that is kinda what Wrathion and Kairoz wanted to do.

[Huntaer]

Quite the opposite, Blizzard stated there was an AU version of Azeroth to match the AU Draenor, but that we weren't likely to see or explore it in any real way.

I still get the same question over and over again -- is there an alternate Azeroth to go with the alternate Draenor?
Yes!

Are we going to see it?
I would never say never, but it's not planned right now. (Source)

Probably because the horde never actually became the horde, and the burning legion would've won the war.

[Aucald]

Probably because the horde never actually became the horde, and the burning legion would've won the war.

Except in the AU the Burning Legion was defeated by time-travelling "invaders" (in this case, us) from another dimension or continuity and the Dark Portal on AU Draenor has been co-opted and linked to MU Azeroth as opposed to AU Azeroth. So it's likely AU Azeroth will never experience a Second or Third War in their continuity now.

[Eon Drache]

There's a set of Titans for each universe... Only demons transcend all timelines.

There's a set of aspects for each universe... Nozdormu talks about possible timelines, for our universe, but that doesn't include the actual other ones that do exist. There's not one Nozdormu patrolling millions of universes.

Lore wise, all timelines are the ones to protect the most, to those inhabitants. We're not gonna see 100's of portals open up and see 100's of alliances and hordes pouring into our timeline cause it's the most important one. Though that is kinda what Wrathion and Kairoz wanted to do.

We know there is one world soul left. If we assume that the burning legion (since they knew about AU Draenor before we interfered) knows about AU Azeroth then that Azeroth does not house a world soul. It probably also won't exist much longer if it did. I doubt "All timelines are the prime" one. Also it would make the words of Aman'thul completely pointless and factually wrong since he said "Know there is only one True timeline". Saying all of them are just kind of ignores the lore and fabricates it because you want it that way.

[A dot Ham]

As you may know already we are going to Argus... in some near point of the Xpac, HQ of the legion, and where supposedly the army of light is fighting against the burning legion..

So.. Turaylon sends a message about the status of the fight and they need our help, but what if the message also went into another AUs, the AU Draenor for example, where we defeated the legion, stopped the orc invasion to AU Azeroth, with that in mind and that Nerzhul never became LK, that AU Arthas got his full training becoming a Paladin fighting the demons and the scourge, never corrupted following only light, stronger than tirion or Uther, so this AU azeroth answer to the call of fighting the legion in Argus, as well as the Draenei and Orcs from AU Draenor?

Yeah sounds crazy, but.. with the New LK plotting and making weird things in Northrend.., this would be badass and see the full potential for an Older and Wiser Paladin arthas, along Muradin and Uther as a Team.

Just an opinion, or theory but hey WoD happened! xD

It wouldn't be redemption because AU Arthas would never have been evil.

See the problem is that Arthas wasn't necessarily a golden boy.

Remove the temptation (Lich King)... remove the opportunity (Stratholme) and he still possesses that extremist all or nothing attitude.

Remember the line from Muradin "You lied to your men and betrayed the mercenaries who fought for you!" that happens BEFORE he picks up Frostmourne. All so he can pursue and destroy Mal'ganis.

The man is selfish, vengeful, and uncaring... not the qualities of a hero.

[Aucald]

See the problem is that Arthas wasn't necessarily a golden boy.

Remove the temptation (Lich King)... remove the opportunity (Stratholme) and he still possesses that extremist all or nothing attitude.

Remember the line from Muradin "You lied to your men and betrayed the mercenaries who fought for you!" that happens BEFORE he picks up Frostmourne. All so he can pursue and destroy Mal'ganis.

The man is selfish, vengeful, and uncaring... not the qualities of a hero.

That aspect of Arthas' personality is on display even before he was hardened by Stratholme and his vendetta against Mal'ganis - in one of the very first scenes with Arthas he is upbraided by Uther for his bloodlust against the demon-worshipping Orcs near Strahnbrad, and Uther tells him that vengeance can't be part of what it means to be a Paladin. It's a lesson that Arthas never internalizes and a mistake he repeats before he is eventually damned by Frostmourne and the Lich King.

[A dot Ham]

That aspect of Arthas' personality is on display even before he was hardened by Stratholme and his vendetta against Mal'ganis - in one of the very first scenes with Arthas he is upbraided by Uther for his bloodlust against the demon-worshipping Orcs near Strahnbrad, and Uther tells him that vengeance can't be part of what it means to be a Paladin. It's a lesson that Arthas never internalizes and a mistake he repeats before he is eventually damned by Frostmourne and the Lich King.

The assumption cannot be made that he would ever learn that or take that lesson to heart... simply because he was not given the chance to.

How many countless stories has a pupil learning from a master/teacher and only listens to the parts about gaining power and defeating ones enemies and ignores any wisdom in benevolence.