7.2 spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Qualia]

If they didn't care we would have a canon Med'an and no Chronicle.

But there is a canon Med'an :P He just isn't the Guardian, which might not really mean much since he stopped being the Guardian at the end of the comics anyway (the comics is still canon as confirmed by Afrasiabi, I believe).

[Polybius]

But there is a canon Med'an :P He just isn't the Guardian, which might not really mean much since he stopped being the Guardian at the end of the comics anyway (the comics is still canon as confirmed by Afrasiabi, I believe).

Oh yeah, alternate universes v_v

Thank you Wrathion...

[Qualia]

Oh yeah, alternate universes v_v

Thank you Wrathion...

I'm not sure I get it ._." I was talking about MU Med'an, he is still canon.

[Combatbutler]

Oh yeah, alternate universes v_v

Thank you Wrathion...

How is that Wrathions fault though, the Au stuff existed long before. I mean we have a book with Thrall hopping through them.

[derpkitteh]

Did you ever do the Green Fire quest chain? Makes it pretty clear there too during the trip through the Black Temple that the player character is just as depraved and loathsome as the Warlocks we fight, choosing to loot and pillage the wealth of the temple on your way to the summit rather than help someone deeper inside.

which is why i said "i was pissed they removed the option to help them"

[Katchii]

which is why i said "i was pissed they removed the option to help them"

My bad, wasn't 100% sure what you were referring to...didn't make the connection until you posted this.

[Zulkhan]

Its obsession, sure. But its obsession for a reason.

I never argued Maiev was obsessed for the sake of being obsessed, of course she had reasons. But on the end of the day those remain very personal issues of her and it makes sense for her to feel regret.

Illidan on the other hand is in quite a curious spot where it doesn't make as much sense to go and feel regretful about his past actions. Let's be clear, Illidan will never be a "hero" in my eyes, he is and will always remain a selfish individual but there's no denying that his actions, as messed up as they were, were meant to achieve more than something exclusively related to personal issues, as the defeat of the Legion would be an objective benefit for pretty much everyone.

His methods are utterly amoral and wouldn't be crazy to feel a degree of regret but it becomes quite hard when said actions were effectively leading to an ultimate benefit, one prevented from our "ignorance". Yeah I know it, that's the exact part that stinks as hell but as much as we may dislike it (and believe me, I do) it's still the actual lore and based on that lore the characters think and act.

[KrazyK923]

Illidan will never be a "hero" in my eyes

And yet Blizzard is throwing that in your face in every possible way since Legion. With his savior-status in the game, with his "I was right all along and all my flatout evil shit was justified" in his book. With his pompous cuntitry in the post-Gul'dan cinematic.

Nobody is calling him out except Maiev. That's a ridiculous suspension of disbelief that is beyond any level that this universe's lore has ever seen.

I mean for fucks sake, Tyrande, Malfurion, and Illidan haven't even had a scene together yet. And there doesn't seem to be one in 7.2. They're just blasting through and past any character development that is desperately needed even in the confines of the dumbass story they've spun here.

TYRANDE IS IN THE NIGHTHOLD RAID AND DOESN'T APPEAR IN THE ENDING CINEMATIC. Nobody says anything after Gul'dan's death. The place where it takes literally no effort to just give a bit of lore to us fans through dialogue like post-SoO with all the leaders standing around. Its so fucking incredibly lazy that it blows my mind people forgive this shit so easily.

MoP was truly the last expansion they actually tried.

[vaeevictiss]

Illidan has always been set up to be the hero...or at least something better. From the time he was put in the game in BC and from the time he was put into the War of the Ancients there was no doubt that he was being set to pursue a chain of events that would lead him to great things. Hell, even Metzen said, when asked about illidan one time at Blizzcon, "ive always loved a good redemption story". Illidan was his favorite character and especially with him retiring this was his final nod.

this pat of his has been clearly laid out from the start and his "death" was the only one left open to be built upon. Not like some obvious lazyness like...oh you killed KT...NOW HES BACK FROM THE DEAD WITH A CRYSTAL IN HIS CHEST"!!!

The signs have always been there. People just didnt notice, or didnt want to.

EDIT: And no one was saying hes not an asshole or what he did wasn't wrong, even he admitted to feeling horrible for all the deaths that occurred because of him, but he knew if it hadnt, Azeroth would have been destroyed. You wanna talk about assholes while praising Maiev? Yea, she was a reckless bitch that cared for no one but her own personal gains. She got so many people killed to try and satisfy her ego when even the naaru told her to piss off and that illidan was the only chance Azeroth had of surviving.

[Raetary]

Illidan was his favorite character

no, that was malfi.

[Dagoth Ur]

Nobody is calling him out except Maiev. That's a ridiculous suspension of disbelief that is beyond any level that this universe's lore has ever seen.

Why would they call him out in the middle of the war with Legion? When your whole world is at stake you take any help you can get... Doesn't matter how much you hate Illidan or what he did to you/your faction, curently he and his demon hunters are assets in war against Legion and why compromise that?

And it's not like the first thing Illidan should've hear after coming back from the dead is people calling him out for his shit on top of Nighthold.

IMO Maiev calling Illidan out is more like fan service interaction between Illidan and her because it's their thing. But when you are in the middle of the war with enemy much stronger than yourself every past arguments are put on hold and you focus on the thing at hand.

They'll probablly deal with emotions about Illidan's return etc in the book or comic.

[OIS]

How is that Wrathions fault though, the Au stuff existed long before. I mean we have a book with Thrall hopping through them.

Which was alright(the book sucked though), but having an expansion based on alternate universes was a tad bit overkill. Hence, it's Wrathion's fault.

[Combatbutler]

Which was alright(the book sucked though), but having an expansion based on alternate universes was a tad bit overkill. Hence, it's Wrathion's fault.

But the one who came up with the idea and eventually did it was Kairoz, Wrathion just tagged along ;P

[Zulkhan]

And yet Blizzard is throwing that in your face in every possible way since Legion. With his savior-status in the game, with his "I was right all along and all my flatout evil shit was justified" in his book. With his pompous cuntitry in the post-Gul'dan cinematic.

What I meant is more about the fact that Illidan doesn't do any of the things he does out of the goodness of his heart but rather out of personal interests. Which, like it or not, means he's no hero on the end of the day. It's just a dude pursuing an agenda. Of course, his agenda on the end of the day is convenient for everyone since it leads at the ultimate defeat of the Legion and that's why everyone seems to don't care, but I'll agree that Blizzard's manner to handle this particular arc has been pretty terrible.

It's not even about whitewashing, it's like Blizzard couldn't resist to hype the shit out of Illidan so much that his anti-hero flavor got lost along the way. It's really more a way of presenting the story through the game format rather than how the story is told in general. The Nighthold cinematic you mentioned is just one of the better examples. I couldn't help but laugh looking at Khadgar, Liadrin and Vereesa (I have no idea why the three of them specifically were shown, they're some of the least related characters to Illidan but whatever) as they held their heads high while they listened the supreme and badass-sounding wisdom of lord Illidan. But we also have Altruis suddenly looking like a damn idiot and Blizzard doing everything in their power to make him look like that.

It's exactly things like these that add an atrocious taste to the story Blizzard clumsily tried to tell.

[OIS]

But the one who came up with the idea and eventually did it was Kairoz, Wrathion just tagged along ;P

Do not speak ill of the dead.

[Zulkhan]

Do not speak ill of the dead.

But Kairoz's not dead, he lives in our hearts.

[OIS]

But Kairoz's not dead, he lives in our hearts.

So that's how he planned to become infinite, huh?

[Shaqthefat]

No it hasn't and yes it is. But enjoy your Mary Sue Illidan and Warchief Sylvanas. What great storytelling. The terrible power hungry cunt now is the hero cuz "it was for the greater good" and the completely distrusted and obviously shady banshee now the leader of the horde because...something something random vision something something.

Great writing.

And I don't feel like discussing that anymore since I've already triggered the 6-7 people by mentioning Sylvanas. And don't want to drive the thread off topic for 50 pages.

How is he a decent character though? What actually contributions has he done for the lore besides be one of the causes for an expansion you shit on which then gave us another expansion you shit on.

Sylvanas being made warchief was pretty dumb, they should have just given her more of a story line instead of making her warchief.

Illidan also isn't even a mary sue. A mary sue is a seemingly perfect low ranking or non-important character saving the day against all the odds. Illidan is an important, high-ranking individual who has character flaws, like being power hungry.

Once again, you need to still give fans what they want otherwise you have the problem of people being frustrated that they don't get their favorite characters a time in spotlight. So I will be waiting for you to be on here bitching about fan service when they give Baine some storyline

[KrazyK923]

So I will be waiting for you to be on here bitching about fan service when they give Baine some storyline

Because Illidan and Sylvanas and Baine are all equivalently important.

I love how you continue to pretend that I said having a character show up in something means its fanservice.

Fanservice is turning Illidan into the savior. Fanservice is making Sylvanas the Warchief, which was so nonsensical they had to handwave away Lor'themar, Baine, Thrall, ect not protest it because Vol'jin had some dogshit "vision" that was never referenced again. If she was just there in Stormheim being the dumbass overrated character she is, that wouldn't be fanservice.

Its fanservice because they made her the Horde leader, despite the fact that nobody trusts her in her own faction, because her fanboys wanted that to happen. They wanted it since Thrall stepped down. So they killed off Vol'jin after he did literally nothing and then put her in his place.

[Shaqthefat]

Because Illidan and Sylvanas and Baine are all equivalently important.

I love how you continue to pretend that I said having a character show up in something means its fanservice.

Fanservice is turning Illidan into the savior. Fanservice is making Sylvanas the Warchief, which was so nonsensical they had to handwave away Lor'themar, Baine, Thrall, ect not protest it because Vol'jin had some dogshit "vision" that was never referenced again. If she was just there in Stormheim being the dumbass overrated character she is, that wouldn't be fanservice.

Its fanservice because they made her the Horde leader, despite the fact that nobody trusts her in her own faction, because her fanboys wanted that to happen. They wanted it since Thrall stepped down. So they killed off Vol'jin after he did literally nothing and then put her in his place.

That is them taking fan service too far. You are shitting on fan service because they are taking fan service a little too far, so of course I'm going to shit on your logic of shitting of ALL of fan service, because it was taken too far in the case of Sylvanas and Illidan. Not once did you say they were taking it TOO far, you just were ripping into fan service

You want to know what fan service that isn't taken to far looks like:

Sylvanas: She isn't made warchief and Vol'jin is still alive. Her Stormhiem story remains the same, but more is added on to it. She gets more of her own story on how her actions are causing more rifts between her, the alliance, and the horde. With story on her and her sisters

Illidan: Illidari suggest they bring Illidan back so his knowledge of demons can help them fight the Legion. People are upset about bringing him back, but we decided it could be useful to do, so we go about doing that with everything ,except how he gets brought back and him being the savior of the light, being the same.

Behold fan service that isn't taken to far. We get a redemption story for Illidan and Sylvanas gets more story.