Dutch Voters Divided As Election Signals Another Test For Anti-Immigrant Populism

[Deleted]

Not really. It's just that every country seems to have populists that gained some airtime recently. It's not that the word is overused, it's that we're forced by events to talk more about populism and populists.

"this is all bullshit because you're using the word too much" is kind of the shittiest argument in the history of arguments.

The populist parties do seem to be getting a disproportionate amount of airtime relative to their voter base lately though. Media loves controversy.

[DarkAmbient]

I don't think the Brexit movement is inherently far-right. I don't even think Trump is considering himself far-right. But there are two things: The far-right knows when to jump on a bandwagon and b) they have no qualms about adopting the far-right as passengers. Why? Because populism works best in an environment of fear. And fear of the unknown (literally, Xenophobia) is very easy to manipulate.

The far right (or at least the nationalists) usually are the bandwagon. It's the one that people are usually warned not to jump on to. I remember all the shit Gordon Brown got when he said "British jobs for British workers".

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Daniel Craig is a brit who looks like a slav!

In what way does he? Can you pin it down?

[Deleted]

Looking at the results.
I think the worst aspect is that the situation in Groningen wasn't more important. I was really surprised to hear it was still so bad I thought they completly stopped with exploitation but they never stopped. And I'm partly to blame of not knowing which party adresses this the most. VVD is certainly the worst.

I'm sad to see VVD to be so high, economics already went too far right and dont want to see it go further.
It does show a skill or lack of from the opposition when they got out of it so well. All they really did with the crisis was what any party would do, save the banks.
But they have done well for their real base; the rich people, big corperations and bussiness. Although for bussiness with reliance on consumers it is longterm negative.
I at least hope they will also focus on decreasing state debt. Thats the one thing i really liked about VVD.

I do have a personal disdain for the the parties Denk (turkish, foreign etnicity, islamist) and 50+ (babyboomer party) and am sad to see them rise. While i can understand the concerns of the demographicm my disdain for these parties is that it tries to cater to a certain demographic of etnicity/nationality and/or age. On the brightside just like the pedophile party that excisted it shows some of the freedom our country can have.

You can talk about problems without being racist you know.

you can't with you. Everything with you is racist.

And going back to politics. You sort of see how politics are defending or attacking if they take the issue serious. Even 2 parties that are defensive want to change the the sinterklaas tradition. It's the same story as before.
The only that gives a more reasonable in between tone might be CDA, but it mostly avoids the subject and adresses it through their whole vision of society and community.

[Moratori]

you can't with you. Everything with you is racist.

If you can't talk about problems without pinning it on peoples ethnicity the problem lies with you, not me.

[Slant]

The populist parties do seem to be getting a disproportionate amount of airtime relative to their voter base lately though. Media loves controversy.

You're speaking the truth. The perverse fascination of the media for controversy has blown all of this populistic bullshit way out of proportion. It's about time we put the matter to rest and return to proper and pragmatic solutions without discussing idiocy itself.

[Wildtree]

Regarding racism vs anti-immigrant....
Food for thoughts

“The illogic of the Government’s contentions is palpable. The notion that one can demonstrate animus toward any group of people only by targeting all of them at once is fundamentally flawed.”

Right he is. Targeting only a smaller fraction doesn't mean you aren't racist, or fascist etc.

[Deleted]

Nobody in Europe is Xenophile. Nobody wanted them to come here. We still let them, because there was a humanitarian catastrophe going on. That's us overcoming our latent Xenophobia and being decent human beings. As opposed to giving in to fear and being a reactionary.

Again everything is xenophobia. Be consistant either wanting to help outsiders is always xenophile and not wanting to is xenophobia.
or
their is a middleground where it's neither. Not wanting to help outsiders when you've already done that many decades and it causes harm to your own insiders is a decent perspective while wanting to help outsider when their not causing harm is also decent.

The sensible approach was to financially aid the countries and even manage refugee camps that are closer to the region their fleeing from or even help set them up in border countries like Hungary. And even than your not really helping people because the majority of the people still remain in the troubled region, so the catastrophe is still their. I was against the war in Irak but i was against leaving, because it's predictable destabilizes.

You labeling it as latent Xenophobia is also wrong. But not completely their is natural human behavior that forms groups based on appearance. This was a vital element to human survival for identifying risks.
Examples of this excist in where you see boys hang out more with boys and girls with girls. Or certain looks, it's surprising how you see groups form based on certain looks and often they have similar interests.
With etnicity its similar and it happens on both sides. Where those of turkish middle eastern etnicity connect to each other sooner and stay together as well. The great thing is that clothing is a much bigger factor than etnicity in this natural behavior at least for the Netherlands.

[Wildtree]

I mean, the US Democratic party would not dare discuss the concept of single payer healthcare.

Incorrect.
The discussion about single payer system is a long going one in the US. The system would definitely find the majority support of the population/electorate. It's the Republican side that opposes it categorically.

[Deleted]

If you can't talk about problems without pinning it on peoples ethnicity the problem lies with you, not me.

If you can't discuss these matters without doublethinking him as a tiny knight of evil for having opinions about ethnicities, it's all you.

[Wildtree]

Again everything is xenophobia.

One word
No.

[Deleted]

One word
No.

atleast we agree :P

[Wildtree]

Yet even when the Democrats had significant power in Obama's first term, even the early drafts of the ACA (before they were compromised to suit the Republicans as well) talked about insurance markets and not about a single payer system.

That's a false assumption right there..
It's rather amazing how quickly a few years cloud the memory of the people.
Just look at the current state of things.
The Republicans have absolute control, right? House, Senate, WH.. all in Republican hands... Now how come they struggle to get their healthcare replacement through? By your logic, it shouldn't be an issue at all.
So, nope. It's a bit more complicated than that. Even with majorities, there's a procedure involved that prevents one from shoving it down everyone's throat.
The ACA was meant to be damn close to single payer, until it became amended and changed to appease the other side.
PLUS.. The ACA is a program that's there for everyone who's financially weak.

[Moratori]

If you can't discuss these matters without doublethinking him as a tiny knight of evil for having opinions about ethnicities, it's all you.

There is like no reason to have opinions about ethnicities. Someones ethnicity doesn't matter.

[Deleted]

There is like no reason to have opinions about ethnicities. Someones ethnicity doesn't matter.

If you think your own ethnicity does not matter you have a glaring flaw in your self-image. If you do not have the capability to recognize this, there's even more wrong. It also leads to thinking that others' ethnicities don't matter.

[Moratori]

If you think your own ethnicity does not matter you have a glaring flaw in your self-image. If you do not have the capability to recognize this, there's even more wrong. It also leads to thinking that others' ethnicities don't matter.

Ethnicity doesn't make anyone do anything so there is no reason to have any opinion about ethnicities.

[Wildtree]

But why not start from single payer and compromise down from there?
What I'd do for something THIS far reaching tbh is a referendum.

You cannot radicalize a decades old system.
It's a lot more efficient if you scale away from what you already have, to eventually arrive at a different one.

Again, the ACA isn't a healthcare system itself. It's just a program.
There are nearly 150 million Americans that are completely unaffected by the ACA.

[StayTuned]

I just love how they all say "Netherlands rejects far-Right"

Wilders is literally the 2nd most voted person/party in the netherlands

Nobody is rejecting anything. Rutte won, Wilders (the oneman show) comes in 2nd. Not any other party - no, Wilders.

[Deleted]

Ethnicity doesn't make anyone do anything so there is no reason to have any opinion about ethnicities.

Usually when discussing something you try to come up with something based on what the other dude said and not the sweater you spun off that yard of yarn in your head. Try again

[Moratori]

Usually when discussing something you try to come up with something based on what the other dude said and not the sweater you spun off that yard of yarn in your head. Try again

This is what he said. Ethnicity doesn't make anyone do anything yet he wants to talk about ethnicity and talks about "clear statistics about some issues". Singling people out on their behavior and ethnicity and generalizing the individuals behavior to everyone belonging to that ethnicity is racist.

I really dislike this notion about how it's racist to talk negatively about a certain group of people with a foreign culture / etnicity when there are clear statistics about some issues.

[Mystrome]

I just love how they all say "Netherlands rejects far-Right"

Wilders is literally the 2nd most voted person/party in the netherlands

Nobody is rejecting anything. Rutte won, Wilders (the oneman show) comes in 2nd. Not any other party - no, Wilders.

Matter of interpretation.

As PVV got 13% of the votes, another way to look at is 87% rejected PVV as a valid choice. That'd be a pretty significant number in my book.
VVD lost 20% of their seats but remained biggest. Is that winning?

Also, CDA can still tie with PVV when it comes to distributing remaining seats. PVV will have had more votes, but in terms of power, they'll be equal.

The only shocking thing this election is the massive loss PvdA (labour party) had, going down from 38 (25%) > 9 seats (6%).

Source.