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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Out of all arguments you could use to argue that Xe'ra isn't KJ you went with her telling us that Titans are dead, when we first heard that from a Nathrezim near the Illidari outpost in Azsuna? I'm not arguing it is KJ, but you chose the weakest possibly argument here.
    the nathrezim said they abandoned us, not that they're dead.

  2. #42
    We just used Light's heart to bring Illidans soul back to his body. It doesn't really make sense that the light would meld well with a demon soul, but it seems like Illidan now has some light inside him if he likes it or not. Well, if xera was even a light based entity. You'd think O'ros or Velen would have noticed if it wasnt though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    the nathrezim said they abandoned us, not that they're dead.
    IIRC, the Pantheon is dead, however there are other Titans that were not part of that elite sect. This may have been changed though?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    IIRC, the Pantheon is dead, however there are other Titans that were not part of that elite sect. This may have been changed though?
    oh i know the pantheon's dead. i think the pantheon was all of them, other than sargeras and azeroth.

    he was saying that the nathrezim said they were dead, i was just correcting that.

  4. #44
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evangeliste View Post
    Illidan sacrificed other arcane mages as seen in the questline to rid Black Rook Hold to rid of the Legion, gave up his heritage to become a demon hunter and shunned by elves... Sacrificed a lot more than being defeated in Black Temple... Like really. The word sacrifice here is on a lot more contexts than just Black Temple. He was a demon hunter long before that introduction into the game as a raid boss. I'm surprised you don't consider what he has done that went against what he was raised up on as not a sacrificial effect if you know older lore.
    Illidan didn't sacrifice much in the end of the line. Or at least, he didn't sacrifice much of himself. He sacrificed his Moon Guards so that he could gain more power. Becoming a Demon Hunter is just another way to gain power. Becoming a demon too. I find it telling that the last vision Illidan had before dying was the lecture Cenarius gave him about sacrifice and how he cannot understand what it means. Two things he forgot to sacrifice : his love for Tyrande and his inflated ego. Unable to accept that Tyrande loved his brother, Illidan always tried to gain more power to show off to her. One of his motivation to kill his Moon Guards was to protect Suramar... because Tyrande was there. He's unable to accept that she may die. He believes that he is the one who will destroy the Legion, so everyone else is just a mean to an end. He's unable to understand that he's expendable too. Result: everyone think he's a dick and finally kill him. Illidan may be necessary to fight the Legion, but obviously Xe'ra thinks that we are important too. And I'm beginning to wonder if Xe'ra showed us Illidan's life has a counter-exemple of what not to follow.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Evangeliste View Post
    I didn't reject it I just said time and time again that it makes no sense that's not exactly wholly saying I object, it's not saying I am mixing them up eityher. Still when you have two people who for years stepped away from that druidic potential and dabbled in magics away from Nature and Life (including killing people and lavishing in other things that basically goes against druidism. If you check the elemental table put in the Chronicles it shows that Life and Nature magic schools are direct opposites to Death, Decay and other magics near those schools) and still kept golden eyes. From birth. If you think about it logically it says you can earn golden eyes from being a druid of certain level, therefore if you can earn it as well it means it should be able to disappear right?

    As I said, it isn't explained why they have still kept it after years of not even bothering with druidism in the slightest.
    Amber eyes are not gonna disappear just because you don't decide to pursue Druidism. It's their eyes. They re not gonna lose it just because they don't follow certain path. It's the same thing as antlers. You can be born with them and they will stay on your head even if you don't become a druid.

    Your premise is entirely wrong that you can earn them by doing druidism must mean you can also lose them by not doing druidism. The eyes do not need some sort of druidic power to maintain them lol. You can lose them by just destroying them like Sargeras did to Illidan.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2017-03-16 at 08:02 AM.

  6. #46
    not only that, we have no idea whether druidsm and amber eyes is separate unrelated to destiny golden eyes as neither Azshara nor Illidan seem to have anything to do with nature magic.

    That change could have simply come in to justify the in-game character creation choice, and could be written to also occur in addition to destiny eyes. It even could be that druid golden eyes come only in development, not via birth, and those born with golden eyes are the ones marked with destiny, not those who develop them.

    The lore only says they have occurred more often recently because of nature, doesn't specify how does it? = It just seems some a really quick to dismiss night elven things as trivial .. but I don't blame them, the lore has tended to take things they wrote about night elves originally and just made them either hoaxes, gross exaggerations - downgrading so much about them and really taking off the wonder and shine in them - i.e. straight up nerf.. e.g. we made golden eyes to be something so remarkable and mysterious - ah well we'll just reveal them to be simple cause of nature. We made Elune to be something amazing, ah well we'll just reveal her to be a naaru. We made out night elves to be incredible ah well, they're just ordinary ladies who need a lot of help. Wow has seen a lot of original night elf lore, some of the coolest things just changed or revealed to be no where near what they were hinted at - a straight up nerf, and it was nerfing all through wow.


    If that was their intention all along, they are very cruel to do that, present someone like a special snowflake than later show it to be not even close. I'm surprised they didn't rewrite the super intelligence/strength bit or even the longevity bit - oh wait - they just wrote them to behave like idiots most of the time, appear nothing like ancients, more like tweens in their grasp of literally everything, made them wrong about their most sacred beliefs, and as for strength - they made them one of the most pansy races in wow - i.e. the descriptions are inaccurate, they lie - never seen any "high intelligence" in night elf behaviour in wow, nor any boosted strength, and if it wasn't mentioned that they had lived 10k years, I would not believe they were older than your average goblin.

    yeah, take wonder of your own race that many like, and gut it - it wasn't even necessary to make trolls look good, or orcs look good, you could have achieved that without changing the night elves

  7. #47
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Illidans eyes were always to show his potential and at the same time how he was unable to reach it because of his own problems much like how anakins recklessness prevented him from becoming the most powerful Jedi and then later on sith imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    much like how anakins recklessness prevented him from becoming the most powerful Jedi and then later on sith imo.
    The loss of several limbs and being put in a torture suit didn't help with his sith potential either :P.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I feel a lot of people aren't taking Azsahara or the night elves seriously enough to think on this properly. You don't get to be so adored and empress of such a distinguished group of people described as benevolent and highly intelligent without being exceptional in both those arenas and then some. So far all i've heard is basically a description of what Azshara has become, but know intuining about how she must have been like to get to that level.

    To trivialize it or reduce it to nothing remarkable, is also to triviliaze the entire race and diminish their accomplishments are level they were elevated too at the height of their predominance on Azeroth. A grand tale of such huge proportions demands quite the story to weave of how a group that was like THAT, could become like this .. and the woman at the heart of it, that made the world dance to her tune.

    I can assure you, it won't be that simple.
    Amber eyes doesn't mean shit.

    Illidan had a Good destiny, Azshara had a Horrible one.

    Khadgar was a man with great potential.

    Anduin was BORN with a legacy for Bother The Alliance, And the Horde.

    Illidan will be the child of light/shadow.

    Azshara is wanting to KILL everyone, with the powers that both Azeroths titan, as well as sargeras hate....

    You're right. I'm not taking her seriously, mainly because She and her naga are working to kill us, as well as corrupting this titan....

    Quit acting as if she's even remotely good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Douchebag View Post
    The loss of several limbs and being put in a torture suit didn't help with his sith potential either :P.
    Well, ya gotta admit:



    Even in those horrible thing, he made some pretty nice af entrances....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also @Raven

    Druidism, and Amber eyes ARE seperate...

    Illidan was BORN with amber eyes, Malfurion EARNED them....

  10. #50
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Douchebag View Post
    The loss of several limbs and being put in a torture suit didn't help with his sith potential either :P.
    Well the loss of his limbs was because of his recklessness, but the torture suit increased his power as the dark side feeds off of pain and rage, but he still wasn't as powerful as he could have been.


    Anyways signs of great destiny doesn't always mean it's gonna be roses and sunshine or that the person is even gonna turn out good.
    Last edited by Friendlyimmolation; 2017-03-16 at 12:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Well the loss of his limbs was because of his recklessness
    True, never underestimate the power of the high ground I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    but the torture suit increased his power as the dark side feeds off of pain and rage, but he still wasn't as powerful as he could have been.
    It increased his power with the dark side yes, but it also severely hindered his movement.

  12. #52
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Douchebag View Post
    True, never underestimate the power of the high ground I guess.



    It increased his power with the dark side yes, but it also severely hindered his movement.
    That was the old canon, he's doing flips and shit easily in his suit in the new canon.


    Anyways on topic I still so t think that haveing golden/amber eyes is going to magically make you amazing and it's still. A sign of Druidic magic and sometimes a great potential for it
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    That was the old canon, he's doing flips and shit easily in his suit in the new canon.
    Is this some recent stuff or have I not been paying attention?

  14. #54
    Problem is, unlike Anakin, neither Azshara nor Illidan's story is finished. And it looks like Illidan whom we thought done and unfulfilled might actually fulfil his destiny. I like that, at least 1 night elf might actually do something truly remarkable - usually reserved for an orc (thrall) or human (Take your pick)

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    Illidan didn't sacrifice much in the end of the line. Or at least, he didn't sacrifice much of himself. He sacrificed his Moon Guards so that he could gain more power. Becoming a Demon Hunter is just another way to gain power. Becoming a demon too. I find it telling that the last vision Illidan had before dying was the lecture Cenarius gave him about sacrifice and how he cannot understand what it means. Two things he forgot to sacrifice : his love for Tyrande and his inflated ego. Unable to accept that Tyrande loved his brother, Illidan always tried to gain more power to show off to her. One of his motivation to kill his Moon Guards was to protect Suramar... because Tyrande was there. He's unable to accept that she may die. He believes that he is the one who will destroy the Legion, so everyone else is just a mean to an end. He's unable to understand that he's expendable too. Result: everyone think he's a dick and finally kill him. Illidan may be necessary to fight the Legion, but obviously Xe'ra thinks that we are important too. And I'm beginning to wonder if Xe'ra showed us Illidan's life has a counter-exemple of what not to follow.
    As I said the context of sacrifice was more than for others, it was personal and others in his path. Which is why I said more than one context here, he sacrificed others, he sacrificed things going for himself just bundled it up, I know the story but the point of the exercise was, why do Azshara and Illidan still have them?

    With Illidan we saw videos that was more about destiny and of course druids were involved but was to inform us he couldn't get there and also chose not to. With Xe'ra about, they have another insight to being akin to destiny at least for Illidan because obviously he's a current figure in lore, still waiting on Azshara though the model used in the game with Farondis had more warmer tone eyes but that's a little iffy. My train of thought was if it is solely representing druidic power in the examples of Illidan and Azshara it doesn't make much sense when despite all the years of going against what we believe druidism is about (and the magic school) both have used and abused everyone around them for their own gain which doesn't seem very druidy haha, why they still got them? Potential or no, both will not go into that walk of life after the Legion have been in their lives.

    Not much on Azshara of course, her time will come but what bothers me the most is the newer models like Cenarius and Malfurion (and from Cataclysm too) lack those distinctive eyes you know? They wouldn't been so keen to let that slip after in Cataclysm there was an outcry when the Queen Azshara first released lacked golden eyes so I can't see them doing that now when they are becoming stickler's for their own lore with the Chronicles series. People are generally more into the lore and know it than before. Also including with the new strain of lore that well, steps away from the whole premise of druidism and all about the destiny vibe. That's all I am saying, just doesn't sit right with me 100% because it looks like it's lacking a small bit to complete the puzzle, say like why Azeroth was always attacked was unknown until the world soul explanation gave it clarity. Just waiting for that segment on the golden eyes. I just was explaining that despite it is about druidism, there's a few things that are opposite to it and was giving some examples of what goes against the form not saying they're were real but hypothesis more so.
    Last edited by Evangeliste; 2017-03-16 at 05:03 PM.

  16. #56
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Douchebag View Post
    Is this some recent stuff or have I not been paying attention?
    He's doing flips and shit in his suit in lord of the sith, and he's able to raise his arms above his head as seen in rogue one if you want any more details let's take it to pm so we don't go too off topic
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  17. #57
    I honestly enjoyed their changes to Illidans story until the whole "hero of the light" bs started. I enjoyed having him as a anti-hero who did a lot of terrible shit to stop the legion. Now he'll just be the typical super saiyan screaming with him golden aura. Wouldn't be shocked of we finish Sargeras with a group Kamehameha.

  18. #58
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evangeliste View Post
    As I said the context of sacrifice was more than for others, it was personal and others in his path. Which is why I said more than one context here, he sacrificed others, he sacrificed things going for himself just bundled it up, I know the story but the point of the exercise was, why do Azshara and Illidan still have them?

    With Illidan we saw videos that was more about destiny and of course druids were involved but was to inform us he couldn't get there and also chose not to. With Xe'ra about, they have another insight to being akin to destiny at least for Illidan because obviously he's a current figure in lore, still waiting on Azshara though the model used in the game with Farondis had more warmer tone eyes but that's a little iffy. My train of thought was if it is solely representing druidic power in the examples of Illidan and Azshara it doesn't make much sense when despite all the years of going against what we believe druidism is about (and the magic school) both have used and abused everyone around them for their own gain which doesn't seem very druidy haha, why they still got them? Potential or no, both will not go into that walk of life after the Legion have been in their lives.

    Not much on Azshara of course, her time will come but what bothers me the most is the newer models like Cenarius and Malfurion (and from Cataclysm too) lack those distinctive eyes you know? They wouldn't been so keen to let that slip after in Cataclysm there was an outcry when the Queen Azshara first released lacked golden eyes so I can't see them doing that now when they are becoming stickler's for their own lore with the Chronicles series. People are generally more into the lore and know it than before. Also including with the new strain of lore that well, steps away from the whole premise of druidism and all about the destiny vibe. That's all I am saying, just doesn't sit right with me 100% because it looks like it's lacking a small bit to complete the puzzle, say like why Azeroth was always attacked was unknown until the world soul explanation gave it clarity. Just waiting for that segment on the golden eyes. I just was explaining that despite it is about druidism, there's a few things that are opposite to it and was giving some examples of what goes against the form not saying they're were real but hypothesis more so.
    Why are you talking about the eyes? What I wrote was not about that at all. And the sacrifices Illidan did or did not make have nothing to do with the colour of his eyes.
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Problem is, unlike Anakin, neither Azshara nor Illidan's story is finished. And it looks like Illidan whom we thought done and unfulfilled might actually fulfil his destiny. I like that, at least 1 night elf might actually do something truly remarkable - usually reserved for an orc (thrall) or human (Take your pick)
    Malfurion did save Azeroth at least 3 times. You do not get more remarkable than that. I don't think any human or orc even comes close to that. He also did it without boasting about the whole destiny thing. You don't need "destiny" to choose you to do great things. You just freaking do it.

    Night elves have done lots of things but they are not just individuals you are obsessed over, so you tend to overlook them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selvarion View Post
    I honestly enjoyed their changes to Illidans story until the whole "hero of the light" bs started. I enjoyed having him as a anti-hero who did a lot of terrible shit to stop the legion. Now he'll just be the typical super saiyan screaming with him golden aura. Wouldn't be shocked of we finish Sargeras with a group Kamehameha.
    It would be hilarious but I won't be surprised. Illidan turning into Kerrigan and shooting beam at Sargeras will be even more funny though.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2017-03-17 at 03:00 AM.

  20. #60
    Pit Lord RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selvarion View Post
    I honestly enjoyed their changes to Illidans story until the whole "hero of the light" bs started. I enjoyed having him as a anti-hero who did a lot of terrible shit to stop the legion. Now he'll just be the typical super saiyan screaming with him golden aura. Wouldn't be shocked of we finish Sargeras with a group Kamehameha.
    I think Burning Crusade damaged Illidan, but Legion was final nail into the coffin.

    I absolutely hate this twisted messiah thing they pulled off. For me he lost all his human qualities you could relate to. I enjoyed when he was a tragic hero doing all kind of nasty stuff with dual intentions, to gain more power and try to help his nation or loved ones. All his intentions were not as bad, just his methods were questionable. Then they tried to make him a monster to justify him being a boss, so he lost all his redeemable qualities.

    Now it all feels so weird, like listening to a doctor from Auschwitz who did all his research about hypothermia on subjects without any regards for their life. Yes, pretty much all we know about hypothermia is out of those experiments, but is it right to just suddenly be okay with it because an Ice Age stuck in?

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