Artifact Power should not be per spec

[Teri]

In previous expansions you could play any spec on a whim.

Rofl, respec costs in the old old system.

Strength/Int, or Agi/Int exclusive to gear, spirit stat, mp5 stat, hit/expertise caps, defense, dodge, parry stats.

Oh and then you had to actually COLLECT the gear and weapons too.

[TOM_RUS]

lol no you couldent
you had stats to deal with
you had spells to buy
and you could only play 2 specs at a time so one for single target one for aoe and to change them you had to go back to town and reset everything
stop bullshitting

I was able to play any spec I want without problems in every single expansion but Legion. Can't do that anymore due to clueless blizzard and theirs mandatory AP grind. Try more bullshit troll.

[FelPlague]

I was able to play any spec I want without problems in every single expansion but Legion. Can't do that anymore due to clueless blizzard and theirs mandatory AP grind. Try more bullshit troll.

lol no you couldent, stop lying
you couldent go "ok im a tank, oh you need me to heal? got it "and be just as good of a healer as a tank, you needed healing gear, you needed healing wepaons, you needed healing trinkets

[TOM_RUS]

lol no you couldent, stop lying
you couldent go "ok im a tank, oh you need me to heal? got it "and be just as good of a healer as a tank, you needed healing gear, you needed healing wepaons, you needed healing trinkets

Sorry but Hunter don't tank or heal. Your point invalid.

[Dracullus]

I agree. Game introduced many things to help playing multi spec - lower respec cost, dual spec, item pieces changing main spec, finally tri spec with no change cost. And it's great thing, for example it encourage hybrid classes to play tank/heal. And with artifacts there would be no excuse, "oh sorry, don't have any shield, can't tank this dungeon".

Of course I hope you understand that if artifact/whatever-it-will-be-called-in-8.0 will be character wide, AP income will be much lower - so it will be great for druids, meh for most classes and bad for Demon Hunters.

Second thing - I hope they will learn from D3 team and make paragon trait account wide. With this two changes AP system would be perfect in my eyes.

[FelPlague]

Sorry but Hunter don't tank or heal. Your point invalid.

yes, and changing specs you still sucked if you dident change your gear to the set that had better stats for that spec

[TOM_RUS]

yes, and changing specs you still sucked if you dident change your gear to the set that had better stats for that spec

Not as much as it is now. It was barely 1-2% difference opposed to 15%+ we have now.

[Paulosio]

It's always been my view that AP should not be per spec and the reasoning given by Ion Hazzikostas in the twitch Q&A a couple of months ago did nothing to change it.

I play BM hunter with 54 traits and I literally switch to the other specs for 30 seconds a couple of times a day to put my AP into those other specs... Am I fulfilling some lore / class fantasy by doing this rather than just using the AP tokens as I get them and then automatically having that AP go into both the other specs ? I don't think I am.

All the current AP system does is cause a lot of players to restrict their game play to a certain spec that they've got more traits in rather than the spec that they'd actually prefer to play.

- - - Updated - - -

It's always been my view that AP should not be per spec and the reasoning given by Ion Hazzikostas in the twitch Q&A a couple of months ago did nothing to change it.

I play BM hunter with 54 traits and I literally switch to the other specs for 30 seconds a couple of times a day to put my AP into those other specs... Am I fulfilling some lore / class fantasy by doing this rather than just using the AP tokens as I get them and then automatically having that AP go into both the other specs ? I don't feel like I am.

All the current AP system does is cause a lot of players to restrict their game play to a certain spec that they've got more traits in rather than the spec that they'd actually prefer to play.

[Teri]

Of course I hope you understand that if artifact/whatever-it-will-be-called-in-8.0 will be character wide, AP income will be much lower - so it will be great for druids, meh for most classes and bad for Demon Hunters.

Second thing - I hope they will learn from D3 team and make paragon trait account wide. With this two changes AP system would be perfect in my eyes.

More stuff need to be account wide in 8.0 for sure, repeating content isnt content.
-Reputation
-Merge servers or allow realm-wide guilds (not just connected realms)
-If they add a new style of power system like artifacts yes it should be account wide too, but not the current 7.0/7.2 system.

But I'm also for reducing lockouts, so split farming & such is eliminated.

[ItachiZaku]

I was able to play any spec I want without problems in every single expansion but Legion. Can't do that anymore due to clueless blizzard and theirs mandatory AP grind. Try more bullshit troll.

shit, legion is probably the only expansion you can do this in, particularly because you are given your end game weapon. Hit AK25 and toss a couple chips in to unlock 20-25 slots and you're good to go for LFR.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry but Hunter don't tank or heal. Your point invalid.

If you haven't done your artifact, so 15 minutes for a guaranteed end game weapon. Or TWing.

[Elim Garak]

So your top geared tank for 25 man Heroic progression could switch to heals without any problem at all, no need for tier, weapons, trinkets? Shit, what game have I been playing?

I played Paladin and switched between Tank/Heal/DPS on a whim, because guess what you could get gear for all specs at the same time. so while I was tanking and some heal or DPS gear dropped that no one needed - I took it - "for offspec" - do you even know such a phrase?

[DevilsAdvocate]

Let's be fair here. The amount of content in Legion is not really that much more than most expansions at this point. What's different is that the incentives are different and encouraging massive grinding. World Quests are the same quests you used to level only now they contribute a pittance to a bunch of character resources which are used to advance your character incredibly slowly. Your order hall is massively time-gated and just sucks up time without contributing much to the development of your character. Your main benefit is the privelege of equipping 2 legendaries which you also have to grind for. The legendary system is also a mess of gating your character's performance behind RNG and an unpredictable, long grind.

Artifact Power is the most flawed time-gating mechanism of all. Before you geared up and then you were good to go for harder content. Now you have to waste time either grinding endless hours or waiting for your Artifact Research to still grind but less endlessly to achieve your maximum potential. Even worse, at max AR; you still have to grind a ton. You HAVE to do this because without AP, your character is 25-30% weaker.

The system is total bullshit and it was created because WOD numbers cratered so much, they decided to go in the opposite direction and create a huge and--for people with real lives--a basically non-ending grind. This is a business model they've used before and it is hell for long-term players of the game. It is a burn and churn model where they suck players in and have them waste all their time for 3 months and then those players burn out and quit. For guilds; it is an absolute nightmare. You have to find players that have 54 AP if you want to progress past 3/10 Mythic now. Lots of guilds are seeing the same thing they saw in BC and WotLK; they lose players faster than they can get them.

It's also a system that's insulting to people's intelligence. Before good players were expected to play multiple specs to help out the guild. AP makes that nearly impossible. Not to mention alts.

A grind is not content nor is it fun. It is putting little numbers into the game that you have to collect millions of to progress your character on top of the normal stuff in-game already. They learned the wrong lesson from WOD. WOD failed because it had no content. Not enough dungeons, not enough Raids, not enough pvp, etc. Legion does some things right like Karazhan and having TOV as extra content between patches. This is actual, REAL content. All the other shit ... well I expect their subscription numbers are pretty low right now though probably not as bad as WOD at the end.

Fix this b******t Blizzard.

[Elim Garak]

Rofl, respec costs in the old old system.

Strength/Int, or Agi/Int exclusive to gear, spirit stat, mp5 stat, hit/expertise caps, defense, dodge, parry stats.

Oh and then you had to actually COLLECT the gear and weapons too.

Dual spec came in WotLK, the only problem were the 3rd and 4th specs for some classes due to dual spec being dual.
No gear problems at all - you collect it on the same char. In TBC when offspecs began to matter - you could get any type of gear if it had your stats, I still remember wearing leather agi boots on my retri paladin in BT, that was my offspec obviously. Respeccing was a bitch but I managed.

[Orangetai420]

I was able to play any spec I want without problems in every single expansion but Legion. Can't do that anymore due to clueless blizzard and theirs mandatory AP grind. Try more bullshit troll.

WTF? AP might make it annoying for endgame progression raiding but its never been easier to switch specs and start playing (except maybe WoD? idk didnt play that shitshow)... All you need to do is switch trinkets (and if you really care gather a set for proper secondaries but not necessary for casual play). Seriously its never been easier to casually change specs and be viable for anything other than high level M+ or mythic raiding.

Powering up a weapon from 1 trait to 35 takes like a week, tops at AK 25.

[Mamut]

And then you have the two examples of Druids and Demon Hunters.
If you get that same amount for each spec, then Druids benefit hugely in getting twice the benefit compared to Demon Hunters.

There is no good and fair model for every class as long as the number of specs vary.

WTH, did you even read what you wrote here? Pls explain me how druids would benefit more than DH? If DH will farm 200k ap he will have 200k ap, if druid will farm 200k ap he will still have 200k ap and does not matter if he have 4 or 10 specs.
I dont fully agree which OP but your post is just pure nonsense.

[Spl4sh3r]

Such a horrible fucking excuse, this retarded white knighting is why they make such fucking terrible decisions.

How exactly do they benefit double you mongoloid?

Havoc will do 600k DPS, Feral will do 600K DPS, Balance will do 600k DPS.

Its about OUTPUT IN THE CONTENT THAT MATTERS, AKA RAIDING or M+ or PvP, ITS NOT ABOUT WHETHER SOMEONE CAN PLAY MORE SPECS.

There is no double benefit in DRUID GETTING 4 SPECS AT THE SAME TIME OVER A 2 SPEC AT THE SAME TIME, THEY BOTH DO THE SAME THING IN THE END.

QUITE THE OPPOSITE, DRUID HAS 4 SPECS TO FARM GEAR FOR THAN ONLY TWO.

I am not even if you people posting this crap ever finished highschool.

To the OP.

Yes they should have changed that long ago, they simply wont cause apart from the retards above white knighting it, its time consuming, which means longer subs for those interested etc etc.

You are forgetting about roles. There is more than just DPS and non-DPS. There is also Ranged and Melee. A Druid fills ALL roles there is. Melee DPS, Ranged DPS. Healer and Tank, while Demon Hunter only has Melee DPS and Tank. Of course Druids will earn double then. However I see a bigger issue in classes that only fill ONE role, this being the Pure DPS classes. There is a reason they never add a new class that is Pure something, because they know that isn't viable. Yet they still don't change the Pure DPS classes into Hybrids even though there are viable solutions for it. Hunter/Warlock/Rogue all can get a Tank offspec in some way while Mages get Healing (Time magic). At least for Hunters they did add a new role in Survival being Melee, but that isn't enough.

To go back to the main topic, I think I will go with what someone else on first page said, that adding Artifact Power to one specialization should "leak" some AP into the other specs weapon at a certain rate. If you add 100k to main spec then your offspecs should get somewhere between 10k-25k AP as well.

[TOM_RUS]

WTF? AP might make it annoying for endgame progression raiding but its never been easier to switch specs and start playing (except maybe WoD? idk didnt play that shitshow)... All you need to do is switch trinkets (and if you really care gather a set for proper secondaries but not necessary for casual play). Seriously its never been easier to casually change specs and be viable for anything other than high level M+ or mythic raiding.

Powering up a weapon from 1 trait to 35 takes like a week, tops at AK 25.

I'm mythic raider. Everything I say is from mythic raider point of view. I don't give a single fuck about what casuals do or can do. Pre Legion I could've login for a raid and logout after and still be competitive. No mandatory AP grind, nothing at all, just do raid and be done. That's no longer the case in Legion. I can't even play offspec anymore thanks to blizzard "awesome" design decisions.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

And then you have the two examples of Druids and Demon Hunters.
If you get that same amount for each spec, then Druids benefit hugely in getting twice the benefit compared to Demon Hunters.

There is no good and fair model for every class as long as the number of specs vary.

But I think most players investing heavily into all their specs don't actually need to, they just convince themselves they need to.
So IMO it should be left as per-spec.

Artifact Knowledge is being raised upto 40, so as far as catchup goes, that isn't a quick one to gain but it will have a significant impact once you do.

I have to say I didn't think of that perspective. It's true that multi-specs would be at an advantage.

However, like @FelPlague stated, perhaps a small percentage should be invested in the off-specs. Ultimately, that would make Demon Hunters finish their artifacts faster - but that's already the case. Druids, on the other hand, would have some kind of fighting chance. It's not handed out freely, there's still a fairly big cut taken out of your other artifacts.

Perhaps even have a weekly event of "sharing is caring", where every artifact knowledge is applied equally among off-specs, but only temporarily.

[Deleted]

WTH, did you even read what you wrote here? Pls explain me how druids would benefit more than DH? If DH will farm 200k ap he will have 200k ap, if druid will farm 200k ap he will still have 200k ap and does not matter if he have 4 or 10 specs.
I dont fully agree which OP but your post is just pure nonsense.

At the moment, the DH that wants to play all of his specs at the highest level can do so double as quick as a druid who wants to play all of his specs. Perhaps he is getting confused about the status quo and what would actually change - making them equal.

OT I don't really care for this - the artifact weapon idea was a cool idea but I prefer weapon drops personally, particularly because its nice to get a weapon that is coherent with the theme of a tier or dungeon and its nice to get new models rather than having a couple of models that are very similar with different colours and occasionally one that is a different weapon type.

Basically, I don't care what they do so long as they scrap the system asap.

[Orangetai420]

I'm mythic raider. Everything I say is from mythic raider point of view. I don't give a single fuck about what casuals do or can do. Pre Legion I could've login for a raid and logout after and still be competitive. No mandatory AP grind, nothing at all, just do raid and be done. That's no longer the case in Legion.

Fair enough but consider that you are the 1%, your opinion still matters, but for the rest of us its never been easier. There are 2 sides to this. I guess if you are getting a lot of OS gear in your raids I could see how its much easier to switch specs in previous expacs.