Thread: Mass burnout.

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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Because everything at end game is a grind now. And people don't want to do that. They put up with it in Vanilla because WoW was new and the MMORPG market was pretty barren.
    I've been playing since Vanilla and the grind has never ever been this bad, and the reason for it is mainly the AP and the RNG elements which make everything a chore.

    To put this in perspective, back when I was grinding endless scourge in the cauldron fields it was optional, I wanted the AD rep so I did it, none of the grinds in Vanilla were really mandatory to do well at the game (apart from doing dungeons/raids for gear but that is the game). Then came TBC, of course I grinded dungeons for badges because some of the gear was useful, and I got it. The same happened in WotLK, each tier new items to work towards, it gave a nice sense of progression even when playing solo. The system was improved in Cata and then again in MoP where finally you could even use the points accrued to upgrade your items.

    Then in WoD I would do the apexis dailies and later the Tanaan stuff, because even though they were grindy they gave me currency I could save up to get an item or slot token that I wanted/needed and then upgrade it.

    Now in legion I do WQ's in the vain hope that RNG will shine on me and the junk reward will somehow titan forge to useful, and as an extra bonus if I do four a day I have a RNG chance to get a legendary item which has a further RNG chance to be useful, there is no goal, I am not working towards anything and the directionlessness makes the grindfest even more boring. I have to remember never to change my loot spec to get any off-spec items though or I may end up with a useless legendary thus screwing myself over.

    Add to that the AP scenario, where how good you are at your role depends on how much AP you have farmed (in addition to how much gear you have acquired) and no wonder so many people are burnt out, the game is the grindiest it has ever been in it's entire history, and it sucks.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halstinavos View Post
    Many of the MYTHIC NH bosses are tuned around 54 traits.
    Demonstrably false.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Before you had weekly caps and lockouts to limit the amount of grind you had to do, which was fine. There is no cap on AP or mythic+'s for gear, so unless you're ridiculously lucky and get your BiS max TF'd gear in a couple of months, you have to keep going. It feels worse than a job in the end, because the other side of the sword is that people are petty as fuck and will replace you on a whim if someone has more numbers than you do, skill rarely having an impact, because numbers help in making the grind just a few minutes less.
    And a capped system is also a bad system. Missing a week puts you behind thus making it required to do each work which is more like a job than you described above.
    Also can we stop pretending everyone here is a Mythic Raider and saying things like "I got benched because I dont have my BiS gear" no you got benched because A. you either suck or B. Your raid leader is bad and they think you need BiS to complete heroic content
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  4. #164
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    And here I'm playing the most I've ever played

  5. #165
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    People during WoD: There's nothing meaningful to do outside of raids!

    (Some) people during Legion: I have to do things other than show up 5 minutes before the raid!

    I get that Blizzard (as they always do) swung the pendulum perhaps a bit too far. But let me ask you this: WoD model or Legion model?

    Legion all the way, for me.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Furytime View Post
    And here I'm playing the most I've ever played
    Because those of us who actually enjoy playing never run out of things to do

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halstinavos View Post
    I am an officer in a fairly large guild that consistently had people on (until recently) always doing things. We would fill a 30 man raid at one point for heroic and cut down to 20 for mythic. We also had people on every day running keys and we always cleared up to a 15 in multiple groups for weekly cache.

    Within the past 2 weeks, we have had a massive drop-off in activity from anyone, raiders and non-raiders alike. We went from constantly having at least 15 people on at any given point to having maybe 3 on at the same time. The only time anyone gets on is for raid (for those that are still actually raiding).

    I know every xpac goes through a point like this, but it happened very suddenly and dramatically for my guild. I feel like it was weird, because from one week to the next, our raid attendance was basically cut in half and nobody left the guild, they all just simply stopped playing the game. Many of them have not even logged in now for 2 weeks or so.

    I've never seen this happen so fast and so dramatically. We are now basically on a break until Tomb of Sargeras, which some people have said they will come back for, but a lot are just 100% done and not coming back. The majority have stated burnout as their reason and that they have entirely lost interest in the game.

    Anyone else experiencing this level of burnout in their guild?
    feeling this too, really strange, had a lot going on IRL and i just couldn't find the desire to log in anymore and guild fell apart at the same time, just no desire to log in anymore

    not like WoD where the game just sucked and was so boring, I haven't felt the same about legion but I just don't log in anymore and it doesn't bother me as much as it once would have, sad times :'(

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halstinavos View Post
    Many of the MYTHIC NH bosses are tuned around 54 traits.
    This is a blatant lie. Blizzard themselves even stated that only Star Augur onwards was tuned towards the 54 traits. Star augur onwards, hmmm so star augur, elisande and Guldan. That is 3 out of 10. Even mythic guilds stated that you don't need 54 for the first atleast 6 bosses (tichondrius is a gamble, since it depends on raid comp.)

  9. #169
    I've been playing since Vanilla and the grind has never ever been this bad, and the reason for it is mainly the AP and the RNG elements which make everything a chore.
    Same, and that was what I meant, in my weirdly "I just woke up and am checking mmo-c like an addict still waking up" comment :P

    Somehow I had more fun in Vanilla fishing up Blackmouth Oil for free action potions and farming furbolgs since I was the raid tailor and needed the NR for huhu than this garbage.

    And that's not from somebody who is like "durr vanilla was better than everything!" Its from somebody who hates that argument but also realizes Legion just fucking sucks.

  10. #170
    Part of it for me is that Emerald Nightmare and Nighthold are just thematically extremely boring. Hopefully Tomb of Sargeras doesn't pull any punches. Would love to see some environmental raid mechanics. One of the saving graces for WoD was that Blackrock Foundry had all sorts of awesome bosses. Legion so far feels unimaginative comparitively.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Halstinavos View Post
    I am an officer in a fairly large guild that consistently had people on (until recently) always doing things. We would fill a 30 man raid at one point for heroic and cut down to 20 for mythic. We also had people on every day running keys and we always cleared up to a 15 in multiple groups for weekly cache.

    Within the past 2 weeks, we have had a massive drop-off in activity from anyone, raiders and non-raiders alike. We went from constantly having at least 15 people on at any given point to having maybe 3 on at the same time. The only time anyone gets on is for raid (for those that are still actually raiding).

    I know every xpac goes through a point like this, but it happened very suddenly and dramatically for my guild. I feel like it was weird, because from one week to the next, our raid attendance was basically cut in half and nobody left the guild, they all just simply stopped playing the game. Many of them have not even logged in now for 2 weeks or so.

    I've never seen this happen so fast and so dramatically. We are now basically on a break until Tomb of Sargeras, which some people have said they will come back for, but a lot are just 100% done and not coming back. The majority have stated burnout as their reason and that they have entirely lost interest in the game.

    Anyone else experiencing this level of burnout in their guild?
    I have been burnt out since before NH release. I only been logging for raids and maybe once every couple weeks play a lot for a day. I only started getting in the "mood" for wow again recently.

    I want to say its this xpac....but i

    quit wow just before ulduar release
    quit wow in firelands....
    quit wow in blackrock foundry.....

    now i have mid xpac lulls again, the only xpac i never had lulls was MoP. The thing is when it comes to wow and a new xpac....you got a lot to do at the beginning....then if you quit and come back you got a lot to do in the year long raid at the end of the xpac. There is nothing new .

    keep in mind i have the leggos i want for months and 54 traits for months (i ignore other specs, dont care about em)...i log in and find it hard to find something to do.....i been vendoring AP for quite some time now.

    so is it this xpac?

    Also, regarding guilds.....a huge amount of people came back to the game in legion....and they all thought they were special snowflakes and made new guilds. The player base is spread pretty thin.

    That coupled with the amount of guilds hoping from low end servers to sargaras/stormrage/mal'ganis is crazy.
    Last edited by Banard; 2017-03-16 at 04:29 PM.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Citation needed.
    https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...56538650066945 there you go

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Grossman View Post
    Part of it for me is that Emerald Nightmare and Nighthold are just thematically extremely boring. Hopefully Tomb of Sargeras doesn't pull any punches. Would love to see some environmental raid mechanics. One of the saving graces for WoD was that Blackrock Foundry had all sorts of awesome bosses. Legion so far feels unimaginative comparitively.
    This 100%.

    The Nightmare was so incredibly underwhelming. And I wasn't even one of the people who really cared about that storyline. If you did, I have to imagine you were horribly disappointed. Literally just red and black thorns everywhere. That's the aesthetic of the Nightmare. And its really fucking boring after looking at it for only an hour.

    It needed to be way crazier. Tentacles everywhere, warped ED creatures who weren't just red and black tints of their base form. Twisted monstrosities of Old Gods and creatures. Cenarius needed to be some crazy amalgamation monstrosity with tentacles sprouting off of his face and half his body deteriorating.

    But instead we got red and black thorns and recycled tentacle models from Wrath. Nightmare Xavius was also really underwhelming. Just a fat satyr with four sha recycled claws tinted red sprouting off of him.

    And let's not even get started on how 100% of ToV is reused assets with not a single new thing developed for that raid.

  14. #174
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    I am getting burned out and I'm not even raiding, but mostly the cause is clear, repeated content.

    I just got the 5000 world quest achievement.

    1 character emmisary world quest/world boss/weekly event, fine, 2-3 maybe too depending on playtime.

    Now I got 5 and it got significantly worse, just recently it hit me hard and I spend more time on here then in-game :P

    Now get this right, this is self-inflicted burnout :P, maybe OCD related.

  15. #175
    Nobody in my guild has quit yet, but a lot of them are having thoughts about quitting if Tomb of Sargeras arrives too soon.

    If you think about it, we've been raiding nonstop since Emerald Nightmare Launch, which i believe came out in September. Guilds that skipped ToV had something like 1-2months of break between ToV Launch and Nighthold Launch and now 7.2 is coming probably on the 28 of March or 1st week of April.

    We are still on Augur, but will probably only kill Gul'dan when 7.2 is live. If they release Tomb of Sargeras before mid-late May, the big majority of mythic guilds that are on Nighthold today won't even at least give some tries Star Augur simply because today tons of guilds are 3/10.

    Since 7.2 is a 1 raid tier patch, i really hope they hold it till something like 7.2.5 or 7.3, because nighthold is barely 2 months up.
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  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheggaro View Post
    People during WoD: There's nothing meaningful to do outside of raids!

    (Some) people during Legion: I have to do things other than show up 5 minutes before the raid!

    I get that Blizzard (as they always do) swung the pendulum perhaps a bit too far. But let me ask you this: WoD model or Legion model?

    Legion all the way, for me.
    Neither. MoP model would work perfectly with some of Legion addition.
    M+ for example are fine, but require more work to better balance them and make them less grindy (maybe lockouts and different loot reward system?).

    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Now in legion I do WQ's in the vain hope that RNG will shine on me and the junk reward will somehow titan forge to useful, and as an extra bonus if I do four a day I have a RNG chance to get a legendary item which has a further RNG chance to be useful, there is no goal, I am not working towards anything and the directionlessness makes the grindfest even more boring.
    ^ This is a really good way to express why the extreme rng in Legion is bad and burning out players.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teri View Post
    It's gonna be even funnier with hundreds of trillions of AP over 50 ranks to get a stat proc (weapon 51 to 101) nobody will be ever done, not even top raiders, until they set personal limits.

    Unless over time they increase AK beyond 50(7.3/7.4)
    But the difference is that this time it will really not matter all that much if you are ahead or behind on the AP grind as long as you finish the initial steps of getting all your minor traits to 4/4 and unlock the new golden trait. The new 50 point paragon level is a proc of primary stats only (believe around 1.3 procs per minute), so the difference in being ahead or slightly behind will be less than the difference if you're running with a flask or not.

  18. #178
    The legend of "the game has never been worse than it is right now" continues. "There's too much to do" sounds like a luxury problem to me, which only applies to people who desperately wants to squish out those last few percentages to be the greatest DPS.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    But the difference is that this time it will really not matter all that much if you are ahead or behind on the AP grind as long as you finish the initial steps of getting all your minor traits to 4/4 and unlock the new golden trait. The new 50 point paragon level is a proc of primary stats only (believe around 1.3 procs per minute), so the difference in being ahead or slightly behind will be less than the difference if you're running with a flask or not.
    I know their goal is to have a much much smaller difference between paragon power, but there will be crazy people wanting to complete something that's simply not possible :P

  20. #180
    "There's too much to do" sounds like a luxury problem to me, which only applies to people who desperately wants to squish out those last few percentages to be the greatest DPS.
    Except it isn't "there's too much to do."

    It's "there's not enough to do that actually matters."

    Throwing hundreds of hours of busy work at people isn't the same as having an actual interesting progression system.

    There's a reason they bastardized the already aging profession system by tying horrible RNG to it. There's a reason half of the BASE LAUNCH zone of Suramar is locked behind a time gate. There's a reason that the Artifact Power system and Artifact Knowledge system is in the game. There's a reason that the 7.1 system was a single 20 minute quest once per week for 2 months.

    Its all about artificial time extension through gates rather than interest.

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