Mass burnout.

[l33t]

Everybody blames AP grind, but don't forget absurd rise of wowtoken prices. We've lost at least three people due to that particular change. (Got myself a free Overwatch and three free character race rerolls, though, so not complaining, but still...)

Also: IMO, absurd amount or RNG layers is way worse than AP grind. That particular feeling, when you and your friend raid together, both are same spec of a same class. But you get prydazes and common gear, while he get top legendaries and titanforged socketed gear. He even gets a 920 stat stick trinket from worldquest with his best secondary stat and a socket... That sucks so much. So much...

[Deleted]

Same here. The amount of time you need to put in the game if you want to be a semi-hardcore Mythic raider, outside of raids, is simply too much.
In previous expansions you needed to bring your A-game to raids and outside of raids you spent time collecting your consumables (farming themself or farming gold), farming your valor points and that was about it. The rest of the time you could spend on more leisurely activities, which helps with the feeling of being burnt out.

Right now, you have to (you technically don't. You don't have to do what you don't want to do, but if your goal is somewhat competitive raiding then you don't have much a choice because you will be replaced by people who do) do the following:
- Raid
- Mythic+ to farm AP/legendaries/TF upgrades
- LFR to farm AP/legendaries/TF upgrades
- Normal Mythics to farm legendaries/AP
- World Quests to farm AP

I'm much more casual than I was 5 years ago, but even I feel the pressure to farm 54 traits (the rest of our raid team has 54 or very close to it) and to farm LFR for TF upgrades. Luckily I have my bis legendaries, so I don't feel too hard-pressed to go out of my way to farm them.

I think the progress-outside-of-raids to progress in raids model has failed. And this has nothing to do with World of Casualcraft or entitledness, it has to do with being in a performance mode almost all the time, there's little downtime spent on old raids, alts, fishing, pets, etc. Sure, if you play 10h/day, you'll find time to do some of these other things, but your regular raider who goes hard during his 15-25h of weekly raid time and has limited play time outside of his planned raids, has the feeling that he's never off the hook.

That doesn't mean the Mythic + is a bad system, it's great and the way non-raiders can progress through it is a great change. It does mean that raid performance shouldn't be linked to extensive time spent outside of raids. WoW is a game, it's not a competitive sport where time spent in the gym translates to your performance on the pitch.

Actualy you dont have to do any of those things. Another problem is difficulty. Everything outside of heroic and mythic raids is so brain dead easy. I would love to spend my time just leveling my char and walk around wrold exploring. Too bad i cant do that anymore eveni if i would force on me all those stupid rules (ironman challenge) it is sitll **** easy. Everything is braindead grind with no difficulty or strategy needed at all.

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I member this same complaint in Wrath....and Cata.....and Panda.....and WoD....I still enjoy the game and like how they balanced out the grind. I can log-on for maybe 30 mins a day and knock out world pvp/emissary and then be done for the day if I wish.

Raiding is a grind and if you want to be at the top tier.....you have to grind....

Yes for casuals like you this game is at its peak. For long term players what love to dive into the game and play on higher level. This is garbage. Legion is currently most casual expasion ever released. But it hurts everyone els.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

People drop out from a 13 years old game half year into a new expansion? Please go on, it's interesting.

The oldest one in the book.

[Valech]

Because of AK scaling it will be mostly reset come 7.2. The difference between being ahead in AP now come 7.2 will be small. Staying ahead will require actual work/reward with progression those that want to actually play the game.

As it was with Ap since the launch of Legion, the amount of work you "need" to put in is limited by your ambitions. If you want to raid bleeding edge progression, then I see why you would be required to grind like a maniac. If you just wanna see the content in nhc or hc, you are stupid for straining yourself.

[HordeFanboy]

My mythic guild quit in late ToV progress. Too much grinding.

[murbaez]

Some people have been getting burnt out of the daily grind in my guild but usually still come to our progression nights. I don't play as much as i used to though either. It's mostly cus lots of games are catching my interest and ive been playing them instead since there isnt really a reason to play WoW atm. There's plenty of stuff to do but none of is fun. That might be a thing. They don't have alot of FUN things to do repeatedly anymore. Most of the stuff loses its flavor after, oh i dont know, couple hundred runs of it.

[Supercool]

It has always been the case that if there was something players could seek to boost progression, they would do so.
If you can, you will.

Blizzard are not at fault there.

But Blizz made the decision to replace limited options for character progression per week with unlimited ones.

Let's go back to Wrath again: You do your raids for the week and get your best gear from there. Then maybe you get some badges to fill in spots where you've been unlucky with drops. You can split raid if you're really bleeding edge but beyond that you're limited by the sources of gear available. And yet it still perfectly satisfied the criteria of "content for everyone to do to progress." It just wasn't completely unbounded so that you could theoretically farm forever.

So yes, Blizzard are completely at fault. Players haven't changed. The game has.

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As it was with Ap since the launch of Legion, the amount of work you "need" to put in is limited by your ambitions. If you want to raid bleeding edge progression, then I see why you would be required to grind like a maniac. If you just wanna see the content in nhc or hc, you are stupid for straining yourself.

For someone who's done Mythic raiding for years "just seeing the content on heroic" is hardly better than "just seeing the content in LFR." And LFR's such a headache that it's beaten out by "just seeing the content on Youtube."

[davesurfer]

3 words: Zelda, Mass Effect

You forgot Horizon: Zero Dawn

[Pratt]

Same with my guild. Went from 20ish on at any time to like 4-5. Happened really quickly.

[Grimnakh]

Everybody blames AP grind, but don't forget absurd rise of wowtoken prices. We've lost at least three people due to that particular change. (Got myself a free Overwatch and three free character race rerolls, though, so not complaining, but still...)

Also: IMO, absurd amount or RNG layers is way worse than AP grind. That particular feeling, when you and your friend raid together, both are same spec of a same class. But you get prydazes and common gear, while he get top legendaries and titanforged socketed gear. He even gets a 920 stat stick trinket from worldquest with his best secondary stat and a socket... That sucks so much. So much...

920 really? Sounds made up to me, the chances of that are so low he may as well be playing the lottery instead of going to college.

[Halyon]

No. If you fall behind a week with caps you are behind a week always. Without the cap you can catch up and have the chance to. Well no shit a no lifer is going to be ahead always thats how it always been

The impact of that week is way less than with the grindfesty no-cap system, that obvious even for a retarded person.

[Jazzhands]

Burn out is no one's fault but the player. You choose what and how you play. I don't want to grind AP, so the AP grind is non existent for me. It's that simple. I just let it come naturally through the things I want to do, because.... And I know this is crazy but.... Places other than MoS drop AP. Take a deep breath, I'm sure your mind is blown.

If you choose to raid mythic you choose to put in the time and work required. Unless you're pushing world firsts, AP grinding is completely unnecessary even for that, people just want everything NOW!

Plenty of casual players probably have 54 points by now, any active mythic raider worth their salt had it weeks if not months ago, and we still have months of NH left.

People also seem to be forgetting all the new AK ranks, or the Broken Shore stuff or any of the new things they've done to give us even more easy ways to acquire AP outside of everyone's favorite boat.

[Grimnakh]

The impact of that week is way less than with the grindfesty no-cap system, that obvious even for a retarded person.

"I only want to play this much so if someone else wants to play more they shouldn't get anything for it waaah!"

[Supercool]

No. If you fall behind a week with caps you are behind a week always.

Rolling caps have existed in the game before. I don't know why people instantly assume a proposed cap would have to screw people over.

The MoP/WoD Conquest cap did its job perfectly. People who joined late could play extra to catch up but critically they could catch up because the top players weren't permitted to grind to infinity.

[Pony Soldier]

I was in a guild that was pretty much considered one of the best on my server and after WoD, it was destroyed. Everybody just stopped playing. It was kind of sad too because I've never been in a guild that made me feel comfortable the way that guild did. It just felt like it was where I belonged. Sort of like a WoW family. They were super laid back and just very cool people. It's weird not seeing guild chat come up anymore and seeing the usual people online. WoD I think was the last straw for them and I don't blame them.

RIP Lucid Dream

[Joeygiggles]

The impact of that week is way less than with the grindfesty no-cap system, that obvious even for a retarded person.

A week behind always with cap. With this I can never catch up no matter how much I play
A chance to catch up without cap. With this I am rewarded by playing more since Im not capped and I do have a chance

[Halyon]

"I only want to play this much so if someone else wants to play more they shouldn't get anything for it waaah!"

"Waaah, I put words in people's mouthes because they say what I want them to, waahh!"

[Aeula]

Not really much reason the play when the one thing that's interesting is the same thing you've been doing for years but with different scenery.

WoD suffered from lack of content.
Legion suffers from bad content.

[Halyon]

A week behind always with cap. With this I can never catch up no matter how much I play
A chance to catch up without cap. With this I am rewarded by playing more since Im not capped and do I have a chance

...yes you can. Because RNG exists. 1 week of doing caps and getting screwed over by rng has the same effect as not doing the cap for those rewards, with very minor differences. Now it's literally emphasis on RNG that screws people harder than they want to deal with.

[Miraketh]

Its not about the grind is the bullshit of rng with a little rng of top rng and rng of the rng from the rng.

I had my 54 traits after our tichondrius firstkill something about world 200.

We had 3players below 54 for tichondrius
We had 5players below 54 for Botanist
We had 7players below 54 for Krosus


I had no work the last 6 weeks and grindet 2 weeks extremly M+ the reason was the 6 legendary well 5 useless,kinda sucks.

So im logg just in for raids, and play other games by side that want change with 7.2 wehre we got fucking more Diablocraft.

In a perfect wow world, Blue gears matters.
The gear cap beteween raids and other raids and the dungeons doesnt scale that fucking hard.
More Prequest for raids like the old Key system.

Legion Start my Friendlist was filled with >60 Player
Atm there mostly 3-8 online in world of Warcraft, some play Overwacht some Hots about 35 Play non Blizzard games.

The most Classes are playing like an Playstation game with the 4Button Rotation.
PvP is a fucking joke.
Nearly every Class is broken,gameplay wise.I dont have really touchted one of my ten alts outside of EN.
Classbalancing is great.Really.(PVE)
And still the Raids are Fun and challenging.

RNG,Legendarys,Skillessgameplay and Epic for free on every fucking corner.

But Meanings are different, a lot of casual like this shit so we will have this shit a longer time ago.