Mass burnout.

[George Costanza]

The game needs caps on shit. Especially artifact power.

had they added that early on I think alot of people wouldnt burnout.

Legendaries is another issue. Perhaps limiting the access from which you can get them from to just Weekly stuff? Or stuff you have to wait some day(s) for.

[Marrilaife]

corrupted loot system almost confirmed in your guild - and you wonder why they quit.

The hell you stalking me? You're literally following my posts in every thread and whining at me.

I never said in my current guild officers take the best pieces of loot for themselves - I've said "maybe", because in one of the guilds I've been in during HFC there was a rule officers had a prio on loot because otherwise no one wanted to do the officer's job and someone unfortunately has to, so it was put as an incentive.

Tell me, what profit exactly officers have from spending countless hours of maintenance on a guild? I mean the officers that actually do their job contrary to some guilds that sit idle waiting for recruits to fall into their laps and problems to "solve itself", most of these guilds disband after a few months.

Blizzard killed 10 man raiding for the reasons people were mass switching to it - not because it was easier bosses, nope, the bosses were harder, but because the management requirements grow exponentially with roster size.

They also removed most of the guild perks, some of them were abused, so there was a point, but atm the "weekly guild activities" reward so little gold most guilds can't even afford to give their raiders free repairs. Unless they grab BOEs for gbank or sell boosts and grab the gold to gbank, which my guild does neither (BOEs are property of the person it dropped for).

The loot system in my current guild is pretty clear, raiders before trials, dps before healers and tanks, otherwise for whomever it's the biggest upgrade, at the start of NH we also had a rule whoever has better attendance has better chance for getting loot. It's all quite ordinary and logical, most guilds work this way with slight modifications. It's pretty shit some people quit after they got Gul'dan trinket /4 set bonus, but yea, let's blame the loot system for people quitting. One of our officers, the healing officer, was literally the last guy in the whole raid roster to obtain his 4-set bonus because "dps before healers" rule. But yeah, keep spewing your bias.

the only ones complaining are mythic raiders and game will be better without them - no loss for blizzard and actual gains when most toxic elements will be out of game.

I see, you wish the mythic raiding community die in agony, the community which is already small as it is and struggling more than ever.

The most toxic parts of wow are
- pvp pugs
- pve pugs
- wannabe hardcore "heroic guilds" that ask people to play fotm classes to progress through goddamn heroic (absolutely unnecessary from the game standpoint)
.
.
.
.
- a few mythic guilds that think they're "world top" quality while they're just average

Seriously the amount of toxicity you find in pugging community is 100 times worse than in most mythic guilds (elitism, cherry picking people by class / spec / ilvl / legendaries / artifact / wowprogress "score", rudeness, kicking people out without a reason, ninja quitting after 1 wipe etc.), so why do people not advocate killing off pugging instead of mythic raiding?

[eScar95]

I feel like I'v burnt out on it too. I just have so much going on IRL and playing other (F2P) games to even try and make effort in Raiding and coughing up $15 a month that I should be saving.

[Lord Pebbleton]

I knew this would happen.
Personally, I'm burned out because I dislike half of the Nighthold, and the other half doesn't give me good loot. I still miss even the 2-pieces set bonus.
I get all my upgrades from the weekly chest.
The only other time I felt so absurdly bored with raiding was with the fuming turd that was Blackrock Furnace. Maybe your guildies had similar experiences.

[Paula Deen]

Its the grind man its too much. People complained the Grind of 5.1 was too much and Legion is several times worse than that.

I would welcome 5.1 again. Atleast 5.1 had neat stories and shit going on while I did my dirty work.

[Kazgrel]

Sounds like a plan to me. Viva la revolucion, indeed.

Delete Mythic raids and rated pvp.
A super-small % of the playerbase that theorycrafts to hell and back (and is competitive to the point of narcissism) perma-gone? Win-win.

That would accomplish nothing to alleviate burnout. Not to mention cutting off valuable resources (theorycrafters). If they want to be that competitive over video game accomplishments...who cares (outside of them), and what difference would it make to anyone else playing the game?

[Pixlol]

From my perspective, personal play / accountability is really starting to show this expansion, especially on the mythic level raiding, and for a lot of guilds you were able to be able to carry 1 - 2 dead weight players. These players, often at times, will be someone who's been in the guild for a very long time, or friend of the GM, or even the GM / officer. The curve of raids went from playing Tee-ball as an adult and drinking beer with friends and having a good time, to now having to play at the caliber of a MLB team where one player makes one mistake and you wipe.

A lot of those mid tier guilds are now stuck, its not just the 3 / 10 guilds, its the 7 / 10 guilds, the 8 / 10 guilds and the 9 / 10 guilds all hitting very solid walls and finding themselves asking the question of is this worth it anymore to play 9 - 20+ hours for 10+ weeks straight on mythic content and not being able to clear it, specifically due to a few players personal play. Players also have gear similar ilvl or greater than what the bosses they're trying to kill drop, and can fail at re-clearing bosses pretty easily, all for what minimal upgrades if they warforge / titanforge? So where am I to go for character improvement, the easiest route is to RNGesusing loot from heroic, or bash my head against the wall in mythic. Partner that with bosses not allowing for players to make mistakes, changes in battle rez's causing you to lose a pull because someone dies to a mechanic 2 minutes into a fight and you HAVE to have the rez up 8 minutes later.

Because of this I recently found myself asking the question and deciding its just not worth it, when the same 3-4 players constantly make mistakes on the final boss of a tier and you have to have them play perfectly with positioning, DPS, ect.. and cross your fingers they don't have to do mechanics. Finding myself leaving a 9 / 10 mythic guild (mid raid) to pursue a more casual guild that's 8 / 10, but raids half as much, because I was just tired of bulls*** of perfect play / this long of time commitments to feel like you get nothing. From an upper end raiders perspective (many world first kills / us first kills in blood legion) these fights are some of the best they have ever produced, however they're not as satisfying of a kill because you're not rewarded with that shiny new loot that no one else on the server has, you que into LFR and get pissed off that this guy that's Role playing has an 895 Arcano crystal with a socket and a 925 Convergence of fate from normal mode that makes you want to rip your hair out or punch a wall.

Partner this with a self inflicted / mandatory AP grind, RNG legendaries, and almost Mandatory weekly Mythic +, players did what used to take 6 months to progress your character, into 6 weeks and feel "burnt out". Its not actually the game itself, as far the game goes, content is abundant and casual players now have a plethora of things to do and don't feel bound to play in organized groups to progress there character like before. This also shows through with blizzards class balancing, besides Bear tanks being broke, and Holy paladins being OP , most everything is actually very well balanced, allowing more and more players to play the class and spec they want too to enjoy the game. The "burnt out" is now because character progression has come faster, and that comes with feeling the need to sink 20-30 hours into the game for 6+ months straight, where that has NEVER been the case before. You finish the tier, you play casually or PvP in your free time.

Now to feel like you're on the cutting edge you feel like you have to do everything every week for a chance at something, even though 99% of the content your doing doesn't have anything for you, but you do it, so you're spending 15+ hours outside of a 9-20+ hour raid week. Its just too much, for too little, all across the board and that was just with nighthold. The cycle is about to repeat itself with Tomb of Sargeras.

[Deleted]

Game is now a complete vendor machine, do your 4x ENs, 4x ToVs and 3x NHs (LFR, NM, HC, Mythic). World boss, minimum M15. And do your WQs chests. And your weekly quest, unless its the shitty Pet one. All of these are slot machines, in hopes that you get a legendary.


Game always had that aspect, you killed Rag, and hope he would drop the item you wanted, then you hoped that you would beat the other 4 people wanting it. But it also had the aspect of just logging in and kinda making your own adventure, as cheesy as that sounds. Sometimes you gathered friends and went to fuck with the other faction, sometimes you did some BGs on your random lvl 38 alt in AB. Level proffessions, farm a title or mount, achievement, whatever. Some of my best times in WotLK was during non raid days to just fly around and collect ore to prospect while listening to music.

In Legion there is no time for any of that shit. You gotta do all this stuff before you have exhausted all the slot machines, so you can redo them come reset again. Once i did all of my slot machines, i didnt feel happy, just relived that i was over. And dreaded reset, as "work" starts again". Its exhausting, and once you skip a week, you realise just how freeing it is.

[Halicia]

Its exhausting, and once you skip a week, you realise just how freeing it is.

Yeah, which is why I try to *highly* encourage people to only do what they enjoy. Once you think you "have" to do such and such, it becomes work and not play.... so even if you would have fun with it.... you don't.... and you burnout MUCH more quickly.

[Grimnakh]

"Top guild" is fairly meaningless this xpac since the most important part of progression is being at 54 traits and gathering enough loot opportunities to have BIS (or close) legendaries and max TF M+ gear.

Preach proved that point with his video. Skill is pretty much meaningless... time investment is king. Or "Deep engagement" as ActiBlizzard likes to call it.

Thats a laugh and a half. 54 is not hard and a skilled player is easily 25 ilvls better than a bad one this xpac or 19 traits + 7 ilvls.

- - - Updated - - -

I think most people are just tired of the game as a whole, not necessarily burnt out. Really, WoW has offered next to nothing new for 10+ years now. It's the same treadmill game, where you have to keep trudging along to advance. Sure, they trade one trudge out for another every now and again, but at the end of the day, it's just a treadmill game where if you slow down you "fall behind."

I hate to use the term fall behind, because in games like MMO's, there really is no "This is the only speed you can do things," but the player base is another story. If you're not cutting edge, you're behind.

My guild I was in, they just stopped trying. Got to 9/10 H 2/10 M, then just gave up and had the same drop off. Other games that are new pulled them away, because frankly, WoW is stale. The guild then merged with another guild of similar status, but was only able to hold attendance for 2 more weeks before more people quit.

WoW is old, not really creative anymore, and frankly just on coasters. It's riding along on the same old same old track because it's worked for them, but at the end of the day, it's just the same game it was throughout it's life with a few changes along the way.

WoW has constantly improved, and is still by far the best mmorpg on the market.

[Seefer]

this too but in general people will come back for new content

the only ones complaining are mythic raiders and game will be better without them - no loss for blizzard and actual gains when most toxic elements will be out of game.

Not a mythic raider and I am complaining, I do heroic raids but am bored senseless of AP farming, Class hall resources, praying for a good legendary drop, not wanting to play alts because of doing all the previous mentioned stuff yet again.........it's tedious and boring so I login just to raid and even that is getting meh because it's the same environment over and over and over and honestly I think there are too many raid difficulties, it started at one then two now we are up to 4 it's nuts!

[Lolsteak]

Far in the past there wasn't multiple difficulties of each raid, Me and my guild worked and progressed and then farmed the Tier / Legendaries and it was satisfying.

Now you end up completing your Tier set on a difficulty which doesn't challenge you and trudge through the same raid with minor differences again and again to get an iLvl upgrade, It's not great. It's simply not that fun getting an iLvl upgrade of the same item vs getting a new Tier item, It bores me and the people I know.

Not everyone will agree, I just think that 4 difficulties (Regardless of how many you run in particular) is too many, People complained about rehashing Onyxia yet less complain about raid difficulties.

[Marrilaife]

Not to mention cutting off valuable resources (theorycrafters).

I really wonder if all the theorycrafters, guide writers, discord content creators etc. left, what would people do? I constantly see people asking for short & sweet answers to dilemmas like:
- which class should I play?
- which spec of the class should I invest into?
- which race is the best for my class / spec?
- which of these trinkets / legendaries is better?
- what are my stat prios / stat weights / softcaps?
- macros / weak auras to copy
- why am I not topping dps meter, what am I doing wrong?

Now what if all these people were left to their own devices instead of having pre-packaged sources of answers...

[Kazgrel]

I really wonder if all the theorycrafters, guide writers, discord content creators etc. left, what would people do? I constantly see people asking for short & sweet answers to dilemmas like:
- which class should I play?
- which spec of the class should I invest into?
- which race is the best for my class / spec?
- which of these trinkets / legendaries is better?
- what are my stat prios / stat weights / softcaps?
- macros / weak auras to copy
- why am I not topping dps meter, what am I doing wrong?

Now what if all these people were left to their own devices instead of having pre-packaged sources of answers...

Optimistically speaking, I would say someone else would step up, but that's under the idea that people would have something to strive for that would require min-maxing (aside from min-maxing for the sake of being the best possible character one could play).

Otherwise it ends up a bunch of "play whatever you want" and a general sense of apathy. Personally, I enjoy reading/studying theorycraft for all sorts of classes, no matter what game I'm playing.

[kamuimac]

I really wonder if all the theorycrafters, guide writers, discord content creators etc. left, what would people do? I constantly see people asking for short & sweet answers to dilemmas like:
- which class should I play?
- which spec of the class should I invest into?
- which race is the best for my class / spec?
- which of these trinkets / legendaries is better?
- what are my stat prios / stat weights / softcaps?
- macros / weak auras to copy
- why am I not topping dps meter, what am I doing wrong?

Now what if all these people were left to their own devices instead of having pre-packaged sources of answers...

maybe then people would simpy play the game and have fun instead having ot be compelte bis with bis talents bis everything to do normal modes and higher .

people miss vanilla which was something compeltly new not 100 % researeched before landing on live

you could see it in dev interview today when devs basickly confiremd they given up on trying to make stats more or less equal because if 1 stat will be 1 % better theorycrafters iwll find it and give people this 1 BiS build that eveyrone and their mother will copy and demend in any content and call all other stats shit and usless.

people who desire those builds would be equaly happy if game had just 1 main stat and no secondary because they dont care about anything that arcade element - rpg elements got lost long time ago for them.

you could hear it in their voice - that levels of disspointment when they tried to make those "cool" "situational" legendaries that woudl support different builds yet playerbase didnt give a single f... because they didnt want "cool" they wanted pure output numbers bis ones.

[Deleted]

I don't understand how people can stop raiding and just leave their guild without enough players to raid. It's incredibly rude and disrespectful

Guess they are treating WoW as a game only.

[Nalam the Venom]

Guess they are treating WoW as a game only.

If the guild were NPC's sure. But your guild mates are real people that need you to show up.

[Teri]

Yeah, which is why I try to *highly* encourage people to only do what they enjoy. Once you think you "have" to do such and such, it becomes work and not play.... so even if you would have fun with it.... you don't.... and you burnout MUCH more quickly.

I recently did every emmisary on 5 chars every day for a while, now I think I'm gonna take a break till 7.2, and not care much.

Even without raiding, WQ can burn you out hard due to it's repetive nature if you do it on mutliple characters on 1 day.

Only quests I really care about right now are ones that add to the family familiar pet battles :P

7.2 emmisary at least give rep toward mount chance, and flying, and new rewards/quests will make it somewhat more enjoyable.

[Deleted]

It's all about no sense of gear progression. A lot of people (even though many deny it) are after the upgrades or simply improving their character/raiding power. Unfortunately gear has no effect on it whatsoever.

Longer explanation here (TLDR go to 11:30):

[Marrilaife]

Optimistically speaking, I would say someone else would step up, but that's under the idea that people would have something to strive for that would require min-maxing (aside from min-maxing for the sake of being the best possible character one could play).

Otherwise it ends up a bunch of "play whatever you want" and a general sense of apathy. Personally, I enjoy reading/studying theorycraft for all sorts of classes, no matter what game I'm playing.

Replacing one theorycrafters with another doesn't really picture a situation where they all left, just usual generational exchange, some left, some came. And yes, I agree if they all left it would probably mean the game is in a complete apathetic / abandoned state and no one really cares anymore, no one is passionate about it.

Even on the levels of gameplay where optimizing is not necessary people keep asking these questions, and expect easy canned answers. There is a reason why threads like "which class / race / etc. should I pick?" are not allowed on MMO-champ. People have the freedom to pick a class and race yet they ask someone else to decide for them?

They do it in every game. They copy-paste builds and gear setups in diablo. They copy-paste decks in hearthstone. And so forth.