7.2 spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KrazyK923]

...that isn't fan service, that is just character development.

You DO realize that Fan Service as a term has the implication of overuse or unreasonable changes in the story to suit the fans, right?

It's not just "Oh a character people like is doing something."

[Shaqthefat]

...that isn't fan service, that is just character development.

You DO realize that Fan Service as a term has the implication of overuse or unreasonable changes in the story to suit the fans, right?

It's not just "Oh a character people like is doing something."

In writing fan service is things added to intentionally to please the audience. People wanted an Illidan redemption story and they wanted more Sylvanas

[Aucald]

...that isn't fan service, that is just character development.

You DO realize that Fan Service as a term has the implication of overuse or unreasonable changes in the story to suit the fans, right?

It's not just "Oh a character people like is doing something."

Sylvanas' ascension to Warchief could be argued as fanservice, I won't disagree with you there. But I don't think Illidan's return or his possible destiny as a "Champion of the Light" is really fanservice - it's a plot hook that's been a long time in the offing, ever since the close of TBC it's been mentioned as something the Devs wanted to eventually revisit. I don't personally like the idea myself as I prefer Illidan in his more anti-hero or quasi-Byronic role, but I think calling it "fanservice" misses the mark somewhat. We know Illidan's story wasn't communicated so well in TBC, it's not beyond the pale that he would return in a more heroic capacity than his previous portrayal (and more in keeping with his WC3 protrayal).

[KrazyK923]

Once again I don't care that he came back. I care that he became the savior.

You are spot on. He should have just been a guy fighting the Legion with us. He should have been the devil on our shoulder to Velen's (Or insert whoever else you want) angel. Basically acting like the Ebon Blade did during Wrath of the Lich King, where that idea was done correctly. They weren't the saviors who killed the Lich King. They were a powerful force that helped us. Which is what Illidan should have been.

But he's not that. He's the savior. The one who had this farfetched gambit that somehow worked and now he's going to be the one who destroys the Legion for us. He's the one destined to become a Holy Demon Hunter and lead the Army of the Light and be so amazing and all this other bullshit. The one whose story was retconned to be about "oh you just didn't know his grand plan, he had to do this all along!" rather than what he was, the asshole who wanted more power for himself and wanted to bone his brother's girlfriend.

THAT is fanservice.

[Magemaer]

People can't see the whole picture on Sylvanas. Think about the Il'gynoth whispers regarding her. Now think about how insane is the synergy of Sylvanas and N'Zoth. And Tyrion too, in that regard (he's dead now isn't he? will come in hand...). She'll play a key role in the Old Gods expansion in the making, aligning with N'Zoth.

And still to this day people still didn't figure A'dal is a fake naaru aligned to the Legion. Get the pieces together folks.

[KrazyK923]

She'll play a key role in the Old Gods expansion in the making, aligning with N'Zoth.

And still to this day people still didn't figure A'dal is a fake naaru aligned to the Legion. Get the pieces together folks.

Infracted.

[Zulkhan]

Sylvanas' ascension to Warchief could be argued as fanservice, I won't disagree with you there.

I'll not say that's not a valid view on things given our current lack of info, but for the same reason we can't outright treat it as that until such info isn't eventually given. Then it'll become a point much clearer to argue about (aka, is nothing but fanservice or something more than that).

[Shampro]

Ofcourse to people who dislike the character it'll be fanservice to them regardless.

[Friendlyimmolation]

People can't see the whole picture on Sylvanas. Think about the Il'gynoth whispers regarding her. Now think about how insane is the synergy of Sylvanas and N'Zoth. And Tyrion too, in that regard (he's dead now isn't he? will come in hand...). She'll play a key role in the Old Gods expansion in the making, aligning with N'Zoth.

And still to this day people still didn't figure A'dal is a fake naaru aligned to the Legion. Get the pieces together folks.

Damn that's some top level fanwank and drawing to conclusions there.

[Aucald]

I'll not say that's not a valid view on things given our current lack of info, but for the same reason we can't outright treat it as that until such info isn't eventually given. Then it'll become a point much clearer to argue about (aka, is nothing but fanservice or something more than that).

That's true, mostly I don't argue because I also find her ascension to Warchief as kind of flimsy, based as it is on the "visions" of a Fel-tainted and dying Vol'jin. Given her history both before becoming part of the Horde and during it, I don't think her rule would've gone unchallenged by any the other racial leaders (most of whom I felt were more qualified to take the helm).

- - - Updated - - -

Ofcourse to people who dislike the character it'll be fanservice to them regardless.

I like Sylvanas as a character within the story of Warcraft - she's probably among my favorites given the complexity of character, her deep involvement in the game's backstory, and just the general arc of her story. I just don't think she's really Warchief material given the givens. As @Zulkhan said, time will be the ultimate arbiter of that.

[Zulkhan]

That's true, mostly I don't argue because I also find her ascension to Warchief as kind of flimsy, based as it is on the "visions" of a Fel-tainted and dying Vol'jin. Given her history both before becoming part of the Horde and during it, I don't think her rule would've gone unchallenged by any the other racial leaders (most of whom I felt were more qualified to take the helm).

I'm not really a fan of Sylvanas in the slightest so for me there's no fanservice at all but it's still a choice I found interesting. If there's a character that can get a strong shift in development by holding the Warchief mantle that character is definitely Sylvanas, exactly because of the ambiguous place she used to be. And I'll definitely want to learn which were the exact motivations of Vol'jin on the matter, even more after Afrasiabi confirmed that his story is not actually over.

[TheFirstOnes]

I'll agree with krazy...

I hate with what they did to Illidan, man.

They should've just kept as an Anti-Hero, like he was before....

[Oneirophobia]

Wrathion is a cancer to this game lol

What why? He's an almost total moron and the exact opposite of a mary sue, which is something the story sorely lacked. He thinks he's the only black dragon left despite Ebonhorn and Sabellian. I'm anticipating him arriving at the conclusion that mortals aren't the defending force he'd hoped they'd become and engage on some dragon-flight-reempowering quest.

[KrazyK923]

Ofcourse to people who dislike the character it'll be fanservice to them regardless.

...what? lol. Did you ignore when both of us talked about how they could and should still be in Legion? Just not in the ways they are now?

[Oneirophobia]

I'm not really a fan of Sylvanas in the slightest so for me there's no fanservice at all but it's still a choice I found interesting. If there's a character that can get a strong shift in development by holding the Warchief mantle that character is definitely Sylvanas, exactly because of the ambiguous place she used to be. And I'll definitely want to learn which were the exact motivations of Vol'jin on the matter, even more after Afrasiabi confirmed that his story is not actually over.

Vol'jin has more story to come? Interesting. I don't mind Sylvanas, I think at her core she still has a longing to be a noble protector of her people like she was in life, but cannot come to terms with the idea that being dead doesn't necessarily mean she has to abandon that path, even if her people/the living revile her for being a corpse. It is what she chooses to do that defines her, not her curse.

I think what the spirits showed Vol'jin was that Sylvanas needed a purpose (and perhaps someone who believes she can be more than just some evil lich knock off), that is, a people to protect and rally for once again. That people is the Horde. In the cinematic involving Vol'jin's pyre burning and Sylvanas starring into it, when she turns around and says "Vol'jin is dead, who among you will help me avenge him?" it kind of seemed like she started to see that.

And then we have Stormheim, which I suppose is unclear at best, but I figure we can reason that Sylvanas assumes the best way to protect the herself and the Horde is to ensure, via the Val'kyr, that nobody can die.
I just want to know what her deal with Helya was. Perhaps that doesn't matter now that we've bumped Helya off, or perhaps it matters even more now. Who knows.

[Destinas]

People can't see the whole picture on Sylvanas. Think about the Il'gynoth whispers regarding her. Now think about how insane is the synergy of Sylvanas and N'Zoth. And Tyrion too, in that regard (he's dead now isn't he? will come in hand...). She'll play a key role in the Old Gods expansion in the making, aligning with N'Zoth.

And still to this day people still didn't figure A'dal is a fake naaru aligned to the Legion. Get the pieces together folks.

Il'gynoth's whispers could have been speaking about one of several people - Sylvanas, Jaina, Helya, or even Azeroth as a World-Soul. The last one makes the most sense to me, considering the Nightmare is supposed to corrupt the planet itself, with the "heart" of the corruption in Un'goro Crater ("Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it.")

It could be Sylvanas, but it's also not clear because, you know, Old Gods. I personally wouldn't put much stock in Il'gynoth's quotes one way or another, but to me it's the most literal and fitting when speaking about Azeroth herself.

[TheFirstOnes]

Thanks Aucald.

[purebalance]

But the one who came up with the idea and eventually did it was Kairoz, Wrathion just tagged along ;P

Ummm no Wrathion had the idea. Kairoz had the MEANS. Kairoz fucked the plan up because reasons and instead of a copy of our timeline, he went to one that had a lot of differences.

[Aucald]

Ummm no Wrathion had the idea. Kairoz had the MEANS. Kairoz fucked the plan up because reasons and instead of a copy of our timeline, he went to one that had a lot of differences.

Kairoz wanted a very specific timeline with some very specific differences - the most telling being that in the AU Draenor he chose Grom and Golka had never had a son together. I imagine there were probably some other changes he wanted as well, but I don't think they're ever enumerated anywhere.

[Zulkhan]

I think what the spirits showed Vol'jin was that Sylvanas needed a purpose (and perhaps someone who believes she can be more than just some evil lich knock off), that is, a people to protect and rally for once again. That people is the Horde. In the cinematic involving Vol'jin's pyre burning and Sylvanas starring into it, when she turns around and says "Vol'jin is dead, who among you will help me avenge him?" it kind of seemed like she started to see that.

That was my own take on the matter. I interpreted the Warchief nomination as the first step of a self-fullfilling prophecy, an apparentely reckless and barely comprehensible decision in the present time that needed to happen for a certain path and future to take form. Vol'jin may be the first individual from the moment Sylvanas died the first time that trusted her with anything and this was something that maybe needed to happen, even though it probably looks like madness for most people right now. It's definitely telling how emphasized Sylvanas' reaction was, a literal statue during the whole time the other Horde leaders moved Vol'jin's corpse from the throne to the pyre.

It's all quite fitting though, considered how Shadows of the Horde described Shadow Hunters as respected but also somewhat feared figures, regarded with suspicion by other trolls, as their deep connection to the Loa granted them a degree of insight and overall understanding average mortals tendentially struggled to comprehend.