[spoilers] Chronicles Vol 2 and N'zoth's location

[Krazzorx]

Reading through the new Chronicles book and I came across this interesting tidbit: “After vanquishing Sargeras’s avatar, Guardian Aegwynn sought a place to bury the body so that its dark magic would not disturb the world. She settled on the sunken ruins of an ancient night elven temple—which some legends say was built upon an even older structure of mysterious origins.”

I get that random N'Zoth/Old God theories pop up a lot, but I have a hard time seeing what else that even older structure could be if not a Titan facility which very likely could be N'zoth's prison.

[Golden Yak]

Yeah, I think Xal'atath says something similar to this in the new 7.2 dialogue.

This was always a place of power. Aegwynn was drawn here, and before her the elves. And before them the trolls. And before them...

Might also be referring to a Black Empire structure rather than a Titan one.

That fel edifice towering over this land, pales in comparison to the grandeur of what stood here long ago.
It was here, in ages past, that the God of the Deep lost a great battle to the God of Seven Heads. But as was so often the case, even defeat ultimately worked in N'zoth's favour.

[Krazzorx]

Ya even if it's not his prison, something Titan or Old God related HAS to be down there. Hopefully it appears in 7.2.5

[Hctaz]

I think that's been heavily hinted at as well from Tree Vagina boss. He basically hints that the 5 pillars of creation would be used to unlock N'zoth's prison... but the only place we're taking those to use their magic on is specifically the Tomb of Sargeras meaning that the Tomb has to also be in close proximity to N'zoth's prison. Also it says "To find him, drown yourself in the circle of stars" which, for some reason, reminded me of Elune. I know she's a moon goddess but moon=night. I dunno though. His whole dialogue made me imagine that the Tomb of Sargeras or former Temple of Elune has something to do with his prison.

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Ya even if it's not his prison, something Titan or Old God related HAS to be down there. Hopefully it appears in 7.2.5

It probably won't be until after 7.3.

[Lastlivingsoul]

Yeah, I think Xal'atath says something similar to this in the new 7.2 dialogue.

I still think Shal'Aran is closer to where N'Zoth's Tomb lies. It's a Power Station connecting a vast system of Leylines used to power what she first thinks is a weapon far from the city. Iggy Tree Vagina also heard of our coming in the Rings like the ones that are used in the Ley system and the arachnid mutations similar to the Naga's Mutation a byproduct of N'Zoth somehow are found in the neighboring city. I swear you can somethimes even hear whispers in the Shal'Aran ambiance.

That aside. You are always pretty on the ball when it comes down to lore so I ask you, when Gul'Dan says:

"Your pathetic Horde will fall to dust. In the end, death will inherit this world... and she will be waiting."

Who do you think She is. I have a theory that the sleeping Titan was so corrupted by the Old Gods she actually might WANT to be found. Like she might actually be Evil and we should just let her sleep. Could the death inheriting this world be Sargeras and this SHE be Azeroth a crazed World Soul that is waiting for anyone Good or Bad to wake her up just so she can destroy them anyway?

So got any lore bombs to destroy or support these theory above and below? *Non sarcastic I value your opinion.

[KrazyK923]

If they were smart, they'd play it off as us having stopped KJ at the Tomb using the pillars, going to Argus, and then come back and realize holy shit we unleashed N'zoth while we were gone and him and Azshara have wrecked everything.

[Jokubas]

When I read that part, I couldn't help but remember this:
"12,000 years ago there was a festering wound in The Broken Isles. The Pillars of Creation were used to seal the wound. The Temple of Elune was built on top. The wound was opened again and an infinite number of demons is coming through." - http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Dev-Interviews

I was wondering if that had been retconned since the first Chronicle volume didn't mention it at all despite being the exact sort of thing it was covering, but after this quote I think it might be relevant again.

[Golden Yak]

I still think Shal'Aran is closer to where N'Zoth's Tomb lies. It's a Power Station connecting a vast system of Leylines used to power what she first thinks is a weapon far from the city. Iggy Tree Vagina also heard of our coming in the Rings like the ones that are used in the Ley system and the arachnid mutations similar to the Naga's Mutation a byproduct of N'Zoth somehow are found in the neighboring city. I swear you can somethimes even hear whispers in the Shal'Aran ambiance.

Could be on to something here. We actually don't know how extensive N'Zoth's prison could be - if it's a Titan construction like Ahn'Qiraj and Ulduar, it could be vast, and encompass much of Suramar beyond the island where the Tomb of Sargeras is located. And yeah, the fal'dorei struck me as being similar to nerubians, which of course made me think of Old Gods. Maybe N'Zoth had something to do with the arcan'dor going wonky.

That aside. You are always pretty on the ball when it comes down to lore so I ask you, when Gul'Dan says:

"Your pathetic Horde will fall to dust. In the end, death will inherit this world... and she will be waiting."

Who do you think She is. I have a theory that the sleeping Titan was so corrupted by the Old Gods she actually might WANT to be found. Like she might actually be Evil and we should just let her sleep. Could the death inheriting this world be Sargeras and this SHE be Azeroth a crazed World Soul that is waiting for anyone Good or Bad to wake her up just so she can destroy them anyway?

Actually, I think this could be a reference to Sylvanas. As a kind've royal undead person (Banshee Queen, natch), she could be seen as 'death' personified. If the world dies, she and the undead might be the only ones left to inherit it. Might also be a subtle hint that the Horde's current Warchief may not have the best interests of the living folk of Azeroth at heart with her current running around and scheming on the Broken Isles.

[Lastlivingsoul]

Actually, I think this could be a reference to Sylvanas. As a kind've royal undead person (Banshee Queen, natch), she could be seen as 'death' personified. If the world dies, she and the undead might be the only ones left to inherit it. Might also be a subtle hint that the Horde's current Warchief may not have the best interests of the living folk of Azeroth at heart with her current running around and scheming on the Broken Isles.

It does seem to slam the Horde for being unstable nut it still doesn't seem like her MO to be a tool for the Legion. She did Make 3 Dreadlords her bitch in the Frozen Throne Expansion. She wasn't in on Valimathras' Coup d'etat in Wrath and even in Legion her main goal was allying herself Helya who had no love for the Legion or the Odyn. Why would she trust the Legion with anything? Not saying your wrong but if that is the case that WAY out of character even for an undead. Scheming is one thing but she was looking for a future for the forsaken not leading them down the path of the Scourge all over again.

Unless we will have a Scourge Civil War Expansion with Zombie Tauren, Orc and Troll Undead, sub races that are not Deathknights and part of a 3rd Faction!!!. Neo Scourge Vs. The Horde Vs The Alliance. That would be badass.

Still trying to imagine why the Legion or Gul'Dan thinks Sylvannas is gonna Destroy the world on the Legion's behalf.

[Golden Yak]

Still trying to imagine why the Legion or Gul'Dan thinks Sylvannas is gonna Destroy the world on the Legion's behalf.

Oh, I wasn't even thinking of it like that. I think Gul'dan was just talking smack - "We're gonna destroy the world and the only things left over will be dead bodies! Hope your undead Warchief lady has fun ruling them, hurf hurf hurf!"

Sylvanas' scramble for power over the Val'kyr during the Stormheim storyline just makes me wonder what her ultimate priority really is - her short-story made me think that Sylvanas' number one goal is keeping herself alive, to avoid the horrible darkness she encountered once beyond the veil, and everything else in the world is a potential tool to help her do that, including keeping the Horde and the Forsaken intact and powerful. So does she want to save the world just to save herself, or would she give up her own life to save the world if that's what it came down to? Those are still questions I have about her, though I don't think she has any interest in serving the Legion.

[Lastlivingsoul]

Oh, I wasn't even thinking of it like that. I think Gul'dan was just talking smack - "We're gonna destroy the world and the only things left over will be dead bodies! Hope your undead Warchief lady has fun ruling them, hurf hurf hurf!"

Sylvanas' scramble for power over the Val'kyr during the Stormheim storyline just makes me wonder what her ultimate priority really is - her short-story made me think that Sylvanas' number one goal is keeping herself alive, to avoid the horrible darkness she encountered once beyond the veil, and everything else in the world is a potential tool to help her do that, including keeping the Horde and the Forsaken intact and powerful. So does she want to save the world just to save herself, or would she give up her own life to save the world if that's what it came down to? Those are still questions I have about her, though I don't think she has any interest in serving the Legion.

Me neither. I think Sylvnnas' main goal was to go all Captain Sparrow on our Davy Jones-wannabe Helya and steal the job as Death's Ferryman for herself. Killing Odyn's and bringing the Kavl'dir into the Forsaken. Interesting to note in Cata the Kavl'dir where at odds with the Naga in Vash'ir meaning Helya despite acting fishy (get it) was no friend to the Naga or their masters the old Gods. ...However that goes into another theory that makes Helya the "good" guy and us the Black Temple patsys again.

But that's too complicated and the simplest answer is often the correct one. It's smack talk saying "Did your self righteous leader just sent you to die so she could get a new ghoul to polish her arrows."

But imma still wear my tin foil hat till the day I die man. Till I die and polish me some hot undead babe's arrows.

[Selastan]

Me neither. I think Sylvnnas' main goal was to go all Captain Sparrow on our Davy Jones-wannabe Helya and steal the job as Death's Ferryman for herself. Killing Odyn's and bringing the Kavl'dir into the Forsaken. Interesting to note in Cata the Kavl'dir where at odds with the Naga in Vash'ir meaning Helya despite acting fishy (get it) was no friend to the Naga or their masters the old Gods. ...However that goes into another theory that makes Helya the "good" guy and us the Black Temple patsys again.

Why DID we kill Helya, anyway? All I know was that she was attacking Odyn and his followers, someone we held no allegiance to. We just played their game to get the Aegis. Considering how she was shown to work with Sylvanas to some extent and she isn't batshit crazy like Odyn, we should have sided with her if we had to pick sides at all...something's not right here.

[Aucald]

Why DID we kill Helya, anyway? All I know was that she was attacking Odyn and his followers, someone we held no allegiance to. We just played their game to get the Aegis. Considering how she was shown to work with Sylvanas to some extent and she isn't batshit crazy like Odyn, we should have sided with her if we had to pick sides at all...something's not right here.

Helya's forces were abducting souls of all kinds against their wills and pulling them down to Helheim. She also stood in the way of the allegiance the Order Halls wanted to make with Keeper Odyn and his Valarjar forces - her ancient curse pinned them in the Halls of Valor and left her to run roughshod across the Broken Isles (and presumably eventually beyond it). While I'm not the biggest fan of Odyn he was willing to aid us in acquiring the Pillar of Creation, guiding us through the trials and assisting us in other matters. Helya, mad with rage and ostensibly hostile to all life, didn't really stand out as an ally and pretty much did everything she could to make the process more difficult, like dragging the PC down into Helheim with Ashildr and trying to renege on her promise to release us after the defeat of her champion in battle.

Odyn might be an unnecessarily proud and vainglorious being, but he's not completely insane.

[Raetary]

Actually, I think this could be a reference to Sylvanas.

probably because it is sylvanas.

its the horde version of the boy king line, referencing sylvanas' "in the end, death claims us all".

[Lastlivingsoul]

Helya's forces were abducting souls of all kinds against their wills and pulling them down to Helheim. She also stood in the way of the allegiance the Order Halls wanted to make with Keeper Odyn and his Valarjar forces - her ancient curse pinned them in the Halls of Valor and left her to run roughshod across the Broken Isles (and presumably eventually beyond it). While I'm not the biggest fan of Odyn he was willing to aid us in acquiring the Pillar of Creation, guiding us through the trials and assisting us in other matters. Helya, mad with rage and ostensibly hostile to all life, didn't really stand out as an ally and pretty much did everything she could to make the process more difficult, like dragging the PC down into Helheim with Ashildr and trying to renege on her promise to release us after the defeat of her champion in battle.

Odyn might be an unnecessarily proud and vainglorious being, but he's not completely insane.

This is all my popcorn theory but in Helya is only guilty by association and dissent. Odyn was in the wrong by playing the soul reaper in the creation of the Val'Kyr. Helya disagreed... Odyn killed her on the spot and made her his puppet and the first Val'Kyr. Odyn's is kinda evil here. Also Helya's Hell is still mostly made up of Vry'kul since the Kavaldir don't really turn any of Azeroth's citizens into undead they just kill those who intervene.

Years later Loken hears the whispers of the Old Gods and wants to take Odyn's job so he meets up with Helya still a Val'Kyr and makes a deal to banish the Halls of Valor. Helya accepts... why wouldn't she. Ever since then the Kavaldir Helya's minons weren't allied with Arthas and have mainly been locked in constant battles with our old enemy the Naga. Only now their Leader is dead so the Naga have no one limiting their numbers beneath the tides.

A true conspiracy nut would swear N'Zoth was locked in the Halls of Valor hiding underneath Odyn's Eyepatch. But that's just crazy talk >.>

[Evangeliste]

I get what is being said, but I dunno, it doesn't sit right with me. Tomb of Sargeras was elevated I believe and deep enough to be submerged but it makes me scratch my head and wonder if that was actually deep enough to begin with to have an Old God chilling there underneath it too. It's suggested that N'Zoth is actually 'imprisoned' in a dark spire... Which looks pretty dark like the Tomb of Sargeras and can relate to 'mysterious origins' as it favours the whole unknown premise but is it really that bloody deep to have a temple above it, a spire that delves so deep that the 'drowned' god sleeps dreaming, in the ocean where there is no light? As the puzzle box says... Seems quite displaced in it's current location compared to somewhere like... near the Rift/Maelstrom.

Despite it all though, I'm sure in Chronicles it does say that he was imprisoned halfway between the Well of Eternity and the Wetlands which would favourably where Broken Isles now resides.

[Lastlivingsoul]

I get what is being said, but I dunno, it doesn't sit right with me. Tomb of Sargeras was elevated I believe and deep enough to be submerged but it makes me scratch my head and wonder if that was actually deep enough to begin with to have an Old God chilling there underneath it too. It's suggested that N'Zoth is actually 'imprisoned' in a dark spire... Which looks pretty dark like the Tomb of Sargeras and can relate to 'mysterious origins' as it favours the whole unknown premise but is it really that bloody deep to have a temple above it, a spire that delves so deep that the 'drowned' god sleeps dreaming, in the ocean where there is no light? As the puzzle box says... Seems quite displaced in it's current location compared to somewhere like... near the Rift/Maelstrom.

Despite it all though, I'm sure in Chronicles it does say that he was imprisoned halfway between the Well of Eternity and the Wetlands which would favourably where Broken Isles now resides.

If think outside of all the crazy wish fulfilling theories that this is the most true. We may be simply looking for N'Zoth in the wrong expansion.

(Puts back on Tinfoil hat)

maybe ....

[Selastan]

This is all my popcorn theory but in Helya is only guilty by association and dissent. Odyn was in the wrong by playing the soul reaper in the creation of the Val'Kyr. Helya disagreed... Odyn killed her on the spot and made her his puppet and the first Val'Kyr. Odyn's is kinda evil here. Also Helya's Hell is still mostly made up of Vry'kul since the Kavaldir don't really turn any of Azeroth's citizens into undead they just kill those who intervene.

Years later Loken hears the whispers of the Old Gods and wants to take Odyn's job so he meets up with Helya still a Val'Kyr and makes a deal to banish the Halls of Valor. Helya accepts... why wouldn't she. Ever since then the Kavaldir Helya's minons weren't allied with Arthas and have mainly been locked in constant battles with our old enemy the Naga. Only now their Leader is dead so the Naga have no one limiting their numbers beneath the tides.

A true conspiracy nut would swear N'Zoth was locked in the Halls of Valor hiding underneath Odyn's Eyepatch. But that's just crazy talk >.>

You know, it IS weird that the two gates to these Titanic realms are located so close to one another and also so close to the heart of the Black Empire.

Theory time: Helheim is inside N'Zoth, or within his prison. When followers of the Old Gods die, they claim that the said Gods claim their souls and their flesh, right? And we have been shown that other beings of void, the fallen Naaru, have attracted the souls of the dead before, in Nagrand and Auchindoun. So, when Odyn built the Halls of Valor and trapped Helya within the void that was N'Zoth, the Old God allied with her so that he may be freed and she would exact her revenge. Odyn had isolated himself and his armies in the sky, but Helya bound him and his followers there and created a new realm where the Halls of Valor would function as a prison. So why, if the Halls of Valor were a section of Ulduar, would the entrance be located so close to the prison of N'Zoth? Because that is where Helya bound it to, as close to the prison she shared with her new master as she could do it. Odyn would succumb to N'Zoth's corruption, Helya would undo the curse and enjoy her sweet revenge on the helpless puppet. N'Zoth would have a titanforged army of only the finest warriors at his command, who would tear down his prison and set him free.

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TL;DR: When Odyn banished Helya, he did so in the same prison or actually inside of N'Zoth. Helya, when she imprisoned Odyn in turn, bound his Halls of Valor as close as she could to her dark realm, a stone's throw away from where N'Zoth lay buried.

[Netherspark]

Reading through the new Chronicles book and I came across this interesting tidbit: “After vanquishing Sargeras’s avatar, Guardian Aegwynn sought a place to bury the body so that its dark magic would not disturb the world. She settled on the sunken ruins of an ancient night elven temple—which some legends say was built upon an even older structure of mysterious origins.”

I get that random N'Zoth/Old God theories pop up a lot, but I have a hard time seeing what else that even older structure could be if not a Titan facility which very likely could be N'zoth's prison.

The lower levels of the Tomb are titan-made. They house the mechanisms used to contain the Avatar of Sargeras.

It is quite likely they are the same mechanisms used to seal N'zoth's prison. It's also likely we're going to accidentily release him.

"Your pathetic Horde will fall to dust. In the end, death will inherit this world... and she will be waiting."

Who do you think She is. I have a theory that the sleeping Titan was so corrupted by the Old Gods she actually might WANT to be found. Like she might actually be Evil and we should just let her sleep. Could the death inheriting this world be Sargeras and this SHE be Azeroth a crazed World Soul that is waiting for anyone Good or Bad to wake her up just so she can destroy them anyway?

"She" is most definitely Helya. It is already established that Gul'dan had contact with her, when he gave her Illidan's soul.

[Aucald]

This is all my popcorn theory but in Helya is only guilty by association and dissent. Odyn was in the wrong by playing the soul reaper in the creation of the Val'Kyr. Helya disagreed... Odyn killed her on the spot and made her his puppet and the first Val'Kyr. Odyn's is kinda evil here. Also Helya's Hell is still mostly made up of Vry'kul since the Kavaldir don't really turn any of Azeroth's citizens into undead they just kill those who intervene.

I agree, and Odyn's definitely earned Helya's personal enmity for his actions. But the Kvaldir, under her auspices and control, have been waylaying innocents since the introduction of the Vrykul in WotLK. They drove the Tuskarr from their homes and put many of them to the saber, massacring the entire settlement of Tualiq in the north. They also attacked the Horde landing off of the Mightstone quarry in the Borean Tundra completely unprovoked. They established themselves as hostile from the start - and the Tuskarr as well as the Horde and Alliance had no stake whatsoever in Helya's old grudge with Odyn (which would at least justify her actions against his chosen Vrykul and Valarjar).

Years later Loken hears the whispers of the Old Gods and wants to take Odyn's job so he meets up with Helya still a Val'Kyr and makes a deal to banish the Halls of Valor. Helya accepts... why wouldn't she. Ever since then the Kavaldir Helya's minons weren't allied with Arthas and have mainly been locked in constant battles with our old enemy the Naga. Only now their Leader is dead so the Naga have no one limiting their numbers beneath the tides.

I think Helya's beef with the Naga was more about attempting to establish control of the seas and not any form of altruism in combating Queen Azshara or her minions. The fact that they were briefly enemies of our enemies was a happy accident - and had Helya conquered Nazjatar she would've added their forces to her and been an even worse threat. Her story is a sad one, and she deserves some pity for her lot (which lies squarely on the shoulders of Odyn) - but in her rage she also declared herself an enemy of Azeroth's denizens, letting her anger and rage against Odyn spiral out of control.