Lack of class diversity is why so few people want to play RDPS

[schwarzkopf]

Shaman with a mace and shield, why not?

As I said - you could turn a Shaman into a druid - but what would a Shaman with a mace and shield offer that is DIFFERENT or Unique?

There are only two categories that are currently absent - MELEE HEALING (touch to heal) and RANGED TANKING.

Everything else is covered very well by several possibilities.

[Marrilaife]

As I said - you could turn a Shaman into a druid - but what would a Shaman with a mace and shield offer that is DIFFERENT or Unique?

That's like saying paladin tanking is turning a paladin into a warrior.

First of all, a shaman wouldn't transform into a bear, but fight with his weapons. Second, the class fantasy of a shaman requires they provide some helpful / utility totems, and some offensive elemental buffs, also including weapon imbues. That was the difference between shaman and paladin back in the days, shaman was more offensive oriented while paladin was more about defensive / protective auras. And guess what, paladins don't even have auras anymore. Except 1 row of talents in holy. Oh, and 1 talent in prot that sucks and no one picks it.

In that same spirit we could ask what's the point of elemental shaman if we have mages, masters of the elements?

Things exist to add extra flavour or variety.

Even though personally I don't think Blizzard should add another tank class, even if the possibility exists. They already fail hard to balance them when there are only 6 specs, 7th won't help it.

[Super Kami Dende]

Of my 15+ "active" B.net Friends Roster. Only myself and 1 other person play Melee as a Main Spec. The Rest are all range DPS Classes, most of them Pure DPS classes.

I would love more Tank Specs of Range kind of classes though, I played a Mage Tank in RIFT, it was the tits.

[Spiral Mage]

Or you know .. the simplest and most obvious answer?

People are playing what they find fun this expansion.

The shortage of tanks and healers is like, nothing new. People don't >LIKE< doing those jobs, especially for strangers.
Melee classes must be more fun mechanically this expac, for more people, than ranged currently.

That's all there is to it.

My S.O. is playing her Warlock this expac.
I'm playing my Enh-Shaman (has been my main since TBC).

It just is what it is.

[Knaar]

I want survival hunter to be changed in a tank + pet spec, pretty please!!

[mickybrighteyes]

Can you possibly imagine a tanking spec for Mage, Priest, Warlock or Hunter or Shaman (that doesn't involve pets)?

NO. Well, maybe Shaman - but making it a druid in effect.

they actually removed teh warlock and shaman tank builds that existed... WArlock had 2 versions, one with a pet and one without. Shaman and warlock had 'high threat' spells to hold threat with (or Apotheosis as a form for warlocks when it was around in MoP/cata).

- - - Updated - - -

As I said - you could turn a Shaman into a druid - but what would a Shaman with a mace and shield offer that is DIFFERENT or Unique?

There are only two categories that are currently absent - MELEE HEALING (touch to heal) and RANGED TANKING.

Everything else is covered very well by several possibilities.

The bold is a very shortsighted way to describe things... cause that's basically how a paladin tanks and they turned out quite nicely and very different from a warrior. Also Holy paladins are basically melee healers (who's heals are most potent at close proximity)

[FelPlague]

casters have to deal with movement ruining their rotation
melee have to deal with usually more mechanics

or be a hunter and fuck everything

also its pretty odvious why there is less healers and tanks
1. less specs
2. harder to show off, being top of the dps is noticable, no one looks at healign charts, and tanks if the healers are good its hard to tell (from dps stand point)
3. being a tank or healer is just more demanding
4. since there is less of you needed in a run, more pressure is puto n you, if a dps fucks up ok can still do it, a healer or tank... no...

[Spicymemer]

There has ALWAYS been a surplus of melee in this game.

Its not because of class diversity.

Its because melee appeals to people with adhd while ranged appeals to a more intelligent player.

I can tell you there is a lot more mental disability than able bodied people that play wow.

[mickybrighteyes]

There has ALWAYS been a surplus of melee in this game.

Its not because of class diversity.

Its because melee appeals to people with adhd while ranged appeals to a more intelligent player.

I can tell you there is a lot more mental disability than able bodied people that play wow.

mental disability isn't a physical impairment. So those bolded categories aren't mutually exclusive

[Deleted]

For me, it's because melee is a lot easier to play in general. I'm not talking about rotations or mechanics, but comfort, mainly outside of raids. Having to cast spells to do world quests/old raids is terrible, it slows you down.

When I compare my Elemental Shaman to my Fury Warrior or Hunter (they are melee at range, let's face it), then there's nothing more carefree than charging in, pressing some buttons with instant effects and moving on. On my Shaman I have to gather them up and aoe mobs down by casting 1 or several spells. It's slower, more tedious.

On top of that, melee are often more sturdy. My Fury Warrior, even though they have relatively horrible self-healing, can take quite a beating. My Ret Paladin is immortal. My Elemental Shaman on the other hand is a sack of shit that still needs maelstrom spent on healing surges.

[Isadora]

Man, people in here have a hard time grasping what the OP wants to say, even though it's obviously very simple:

When you play a melee, chance is, you play a more flexible class than if you were to play ranged. That is a very obvious and statistical fact, given by the evidence OP provided as to how the speccs work. That flexibility is an advantage, since it lets you do more different stuff with one and the same character. Thus, when people create a new character or try to roll something useful for their raid, chances are that picking a hybrid class is just more beneficial.

I fail to see how that logic is so hard to grasp.

[Deleted]

Can you possibly imagine a tanking spec for Mage, Priest, Warlock or Hunter or Shaman (that doesn't involve pets)?

Well Mage could tank with being master of different kinds of magical shields and barriers that prevent damage.

Priest is a bit more difficult but it could be similar to palading as reducing the enemy damage but preventing damage to self via some kind of heals vs paladins that do it with armor.

Warlock is easy and could probably made most "cool" looking even, just let the transform to a different kinds of demons depending on situations.

Hunter could be made a tank with his beast, sharing the damage via some kind of bond. Pet type could be meaningfull here, bear for example would be huge hp pool with loads of armor whereas for example some magical beast could have spelldamage resists etc.

Shaman just would use shield/weapon and the help of elementals, totems etc.

Really, no problem here.

[Spicymemer]

mental disability isn't a physical impairment. So those bolded categories aren't mutually exclusive

And this is exactly what im talking about.

[Deleted]

Well Mage could tank with being master of different kinds of magical shields and barriers that prevent damage.

Priest is a bit more difficult but it could be similar to palading as reducing the enemy damage but preventing damage to self via some kind of heals vs paladins that do it with armor.

Warlock is easy and could probably made most "cool" looking even, just let the transform to a different kinds of demons depending on situations.

Hunter could be made a tank with his beast, sharing the damage via some kind of bond. Pet type could be meaningfull here, bear for example would be huge hp pool with loads of armor whereas for example some magical beast could have spelldamage resists etc.

Shaman just would use shield/weapon and the help of elementals, totems etc.

Really, no problem here.

You don't get the point. You're describing melee fighters. What he is saying is can you imagine a ranged tanking class? You can't this it. Unless you do like in other games where threat is less stable and you end up kiting your boss around but that leads to a whole sort of new issues in terms of designing boss fights.

[l33t]

Wrong. Everybody play melee because we have a world of meleecraft now. Other than raid, where you need a number of rdps to actually execute boss mechanics while melees rape meters for days, melees are highly superior in basically everything in Legion. They have highly mobile, fast and fun combat. They have shitton of survivability and are able to rape any caster 1v1 in pvp in any situation possible. They can easily solo any solo content. They have flashy and shiny new animations. They usually have tank or healer offspecs as well, which lets them join various pug activities faster. Also, melee classes usually simply are made better in terms of class/spec fantasy feels. Like, I hardly feel any difference between mage specs, but all rogue specs play and feel differently; or, comparing a class fantasy of a ret paladin/frost DK to, say, boomkin is absolutely ridiculous, because its comparing a righteous warrior who fights evil/evil undead necromancer to a fucking chicken who can flap its wings. Yeah, guess what class will be picked up by a new player?

That's why people do not want to play rdps, because rdps suck in Legion, and people generally are not paying their moneys to suck.

[Deleted]

I want survival hunter to be changed in a tank + pet spec, pretty please!!

That's a good idea. Another one is lock but not as in, turn into a demon and tank, I was more thinking turn your pet into a tank and you into a healer kind of... as in you control defensive cooldown, threat generation, positioning and healing for your pet that's actually tanking the boss.

- - - Updated - - -

they actually removed teh warlock and shaman tank builds that existed... WArlock had 2 versions, one with a pet and one without. Shaman and warlock had 'high threat' spells to hold threat with (or Apotheosis as a form for warlocks when it was around in MoP/cata).

- - - Updated - - -



The bold is a very shortsighted way to describe things... cause that's basically how a paladin tanks and they turned out quite nicely and very different from a warrior. Also Holy paladins are basically melee healers (who's heals are most potent at close proximity)

You're still not getting his point that unless you go melee there is no tanking to be done.

[Deleted]

The thing is.... I speak as someone ho only plays ranged characters in all games. WoW is old. WoW is incredibly old. I tried all ranged classes and even in Legion none sticks.

Since I don't play meleers correct me, but:

- Most ranged classes except hunters have cast times. This is terrible. We are kiting? We can't do damage. We have to avoid mechanics? We can't do damage. We are casting and something CCs, even a soft one like knockback? Interrupted. Surrounded by enemies and need to kill them fast? Time to slowly hadouken while being at the mercy of a CC and push-back. Most of the time for crap damage (more about that below) On top of it some skills have obnoxiously long cast times. WoW players just accept it as the thing they grew up on but after playing other games I can say that the cast time is horrible and a turn-off (cross-reference with dazed&dismount mechanics, though we -finally- have Barding to avoid it. Also cast time for mounting and being unable to mount up if a level 1 critter is hostile).

- Ramp-up times. Most classes, with the exception of hunters again, have ramp-up times. Fight starts, time to cast several weak skills to build up energy/combo/etc in order to cast the strong spells. Having played demo warlock at the start of Legion was cringy. Weak spell, weak spell, weak spell, meteor that summons imps, empower them OK, TIME TO DO DAMAGE! In the meanwhile meleers have distance closers, jump in, start doing damage straight away. Most of the time they have good AoE they can dish out immediately.

I'm not raging on melee. they have their own woes and I don't envy them. I'm mostly disappointed on how WoW can't seem to make a fun ranged spec. So here I am playing BM hunter. The other two expansions I played was also with a hunter. Even now I have a friend I inducted into WoW and have been guiding her into all the progression and even raiding, and she is playing Feral. She -loves- druids and melee, but even at 881 her numbers are weak. She complains about lack of AoE and having to chase adds or avoid mechanics making her weak numbers even weaker. So I'm telling her to try a hunter.

Yes, I know hunters are not well seen by the community. Ignoring all of that it is like I told her:

- Do damage while moving. Gotta dodge something? Keep doing damage to it. Gotta kite? Keep doing damage to it.
- No ramp-up. Gotta AoE? Multi-shot triggers Beast Cleave. Immediate damage. ST? Kill Command, immediate damage. Bestial Wrath and Cobra shot to reset it. Damage, right now, not in 4-5 GCDs.

In my opinion this is why ranged are sparser. We only have to look at recomendations for classes and the term 'weak mobility' is applied mostly to what? Ranged classes. Someone tries a ranged class and woomwooomwooom cast times, see the lil bar build-up... for a miserable bit of damage equivalent to an auto-attack. It's a hard slump to get over with, and then comes the first times having to kite, or reaching max level and actual dangerous mechanics and finding how much they need to run to avoid being one-shot.

[Deleted]

Great point, OP. Even if some people are too stupid to get it and made it into a "ranged vs. melee discussion".

The main point here is that there a too few rDPS players in the game because if you want to play a "DPS + tank/heal" hybrid, most ranged specs drop out of the equation because they are on pure DPS classes.

I think there are quite a few players that want a healing or tanking alternative besides their DPS spec. Either because you enjoy playing another role, you want to help your raid by being able to fill in for different roles if need be or just for easier queuing/group invitations if you really want to.

I always want to be able to tank with my class choice, so when I wanted to play a rDPS in WoD and be able to tank I had to play Druid. For melee/tank, I could have chosen every class except Rogue and Hunter.

Wrong. Everybody play melee because we have a world of meleecraft now. Other than raid, where you need a number of rdps to actually execute boss mechanics while melees rape meters for days, melees are highly superior in basically everything in Legion. They have highly mobile, fast and fun combat. They have shitton of survivability and are able to rape any caster 1v1 in pvp in any situation possible. They can easily solo any solo content. They have flashy and shiny new animations. They usually have tank or healer offspecs as well, which lets them join various pug activities faster. Also, melee classes usually simply are made better in terms of class/spec fantasy feels. Like, I hardly feel any difference between mage specs, but all rogue specs play and feel differently; or, comparing a class fantasy of a ret paladin/frost DK to, say, boomkin is absolutely ridiculous, because its comparing a righteous warrior who fights evil/evil undead necromancer to a fucking chicken who can flap its wings. Yeah, guess what class will be picked up by a new player?

That's why people do not want to play rdps, because rdps suck in Legion, and people generally are not paying their moneys to suck.

Wrong, because 95+% of players don't care about performance enough for it to be the determining factor in their class choice. Not even in mythic raids.

[Deleted]

The thing is.... I speak as someone ho only plays ranged characters in all games. WoW is old. WoW is incredibly old. I tried all ranged classes and even in Legion none sticks.

Since I don't play meleers correct me, but:

- Most ranged classes except hunters have cast times. This is terrible. We are kiting? We can't do damage. We have to avoid mechanics? We can't do damage. We are casting and something CCs, even a soft one like knockback? Interrupted. Surrounded by enemies and need to kill them fast? Time to slowly hadouken while being at the mercy of a CC and push-back. Most of the time for crap damage (more about that below) On top of it some skills have obnoxiously long cast times. WoW players just accept it as the thing they grew up on but after playing other games I can say that the cast time is horrible and a turn-off (cross-reference with dazed&dismount mechanics, though we -finally- have Barding to avoid it. Also cast time for mounting and being unable to mount up if a level 1 critter is hostile).

- Ramp-up times. Most classes, with the exception of hunters again, have ramp-up times. Fight starts, time to cast several weak skills to build up energy/combo/etc in order to cast the strong spells. Having played demo warlock at the start of Legion was cringy. Weak spell, weak spell, weak spell, meteor that summons imps, empower them OK, TIME TO DO DAMAGE! In the meanwhile meleers have distance closers, jump in, start doing damage straight away. Most of the time they have good AoE they can dish out immediately.

I'm not raging on melee. they have their own woes and I don't envy them. I'm mostly disappointed on how WoW can't seem to make a fun ranged spec. So here I am playing BM hunter. The other two expansions I played was also with a hunter. Even now I have a friend I inducted into WoW and have been guiding her into all the progression and even raiding, and she is playing Feral. She -loves- druids and melee, but even at 881 her numbers are weak. She complains about lack of AoE and having to chase adds or avoid mechanics making her weak numbers even weaker. So I'm telling her to try a hunter.

Yes, I know hunters are not well seen by the community. Ignoring all of that it is like I told her:

- Do damage while moving. Gotta dodge something? Keep doing damage to it. Gotta kite? Keep doing damage to it.
- No ramp-up. Gotta AoE? Multi-shot triggers Beast Cleave. Immediate damage. ST? Kill Command, immediate damage. Bestial Wrath and Cobra shot to reset it. Damage, right now, not in 4-5 GCDs.

In my opinion this is why ranged are sparser. We only have to look at recomendations for classes and the term 'weak mobility' is applied mostly to what? Ranged classes. Someone tries a ranged class and woomwooomwooom cast times, see the lil bar build-up... for a miserable bit of damage equivalent to an auto-attack. It's a hard slump to get over with, and then comes the first times having to kite, or reaching max level and actual dangerous mechanics and finding how much they need to run to avoid being one-shot.

Well that has more to do with individual classes. Mages have less ramp up times than says... assassination rogues on paper I think?

[Evangeliste]

The real reason is because for a while in this expansion melee have been the better DPS, based on overall tuning and because of mechanics in everything. Less hassle, not much needed to move, can still do rotation and so on. With a lot of demand or the apparent demand to do things, it feels easier to play melee.
People are whores when it comes to numbers and vanity along with ease as well.

It will slowly be changed, and has but it's far to in to really make people shift from one character [if they really want to that is] since they've spent time with to change to an alt regardless of how quickly things go.

At one point I remember it was about recruiting tanks then healers then the odd melee. It's not really about the classes and specs and haven't been for years, it what's contained in them to make the spec/class cool or interesting or fun or able to stick with and also most importantly how they interact in the game mechanics. It's not fun running all the time and not being able to cast for toffee.