[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[EzG]

Again I disagree. I think it's possibly better than shoulders, but falls behind the rest. I don't think it adds any depth or complexity to the class except using another button after another button, nothing new. I also think you are overestimated it like an infomercial salesman but the cloak itself is underestimated generally. I don't think it saves mana any more than the other legendaries like shoulders for example. You're adding a lotm that you might normally never use unless its a situation that desperately needs an instant cast heal, where as you might spend the same amount of mana on a FoL adding regen over 2 seconds. The main point of my thought was that it isn't only outshined by the ring, which actually does mean in context that its better than the others because if only the ring outshines it, then what else is there to compete against. I don't dispute its useful given what you might have in terms of legendaries/dos but literally if you have dos and other legendaries, maraads becomes a bank jewel.

[MasterOfNone]

sorry if its been posted, but i recently started playing hpally again. got made fun of a bit in raids because i was low(ish) on mana. people saying i shouldnt be going anywhere near that. there some secret i dont know about? using more martyr or?

[Lizardo221]

sorry if its been posted, but i recently started playing hpally again. got made fun of a bit in raids because i was low(ish) on mana. people saying i shouldnt be going anywhere near that. there some secret i dont know about? using more martyr or?

You got logs? There are tons of reasons you might be running out of mana. I would tell your raid this, though: There is is no prize for finishing the fight with mana.

[Deleted]

I don't think it saves mana any more than the other legendaries like shoulders for example.

But that's not true though, lotm costs less than half the mana of a fol and it heals about the same as an iol fol. You will cast around as many lotm as you cast lod. If you didnt have the cloak instead of casting 1xlotm you would cast 1xfol so it's obviously more mana efficient. How much more? It equals about 8k-10k mp5 or somewhere between 1.5bow and 2bow. There's a spreadhseet that shows you this calculations at the holy pala discord if you are curious.

As to how does the cloak compete to other legendaries besides the ring it's difficult to say. At least I would say it's on par and in some cases it's better (such as on long fights). However though, I get that you don't see it the same way as I do, it is in fact quite complicated to figure out why it's good. If anything, I'd suggest you give try it and give it some thought, you might be surprised. But regardless, the cloak is definately not just a bank slot.

[EzG]

But that's not true though, lotm costs less than half the mana of a fol and it heals about the same as an iol fol. You will cast around as many lotm as you cast lod. If you didnt have the cloak instead of casting 1xlotm you would cast 1xfol so it's obviously more mana efficient. How much more? It equals about 8k-10k mp5 or somewhere between 1.5bow and 2bow. There's a spreadhseet that shows you this calculations at the holy pala discord if you are curious.

As to how does the cloak compete to other legendaries besides the ring it's difficult to say. At least I would say it's on par and in some cases it's better (such as on long fights). However though, I get that you don't see it the same way as I do, it is in fact quite complicated to figure out why it's good. If anything, I'd suggest you give try it and give it some thought, you might be surprised. But regardless, the cloak is definately not just a bank slot.

On top of missing a couple of my points, you're now also insinuating I'm stupid and can't comprehend what you have masterfully deducted. It's poor taste and beyond the scope of this conversation. I said its a bank slot if "x" was the case, not that the second you got it regardless of anything just bank it its worthless. As far as mana efficiency, obviously different fights are going to require different snap healing or aoe healing so you might prioritize something else over lotm or even fol, who knows what X player is capable of and what that moment calls for, mana efficiency will no doubt vary. I meant in a general way that it might not save mana even more than the others do, even they are passive you might save mana healing yourself (prydaz), tanks (shoulders), etc. Let me finally reiterate, I'm not saying this legendary is shit, not at all, no, nein, нет, stop. These are my opinions, take them or don't, but try not to riddle your own messages in narcissism. It's not fun having a conversation like that.

[Deleted]

On top of missing a couple of my points, you're now also insinuating I'm stupid and can't comprehend what you have masterfully deducted. It's poor taste and beyond the scope of this conversation. I said its a bank slot if "x" was the case, not that the second you got it regardless of anything just bank it its worthless. As far as mana efficiency, obviously different fights are going to require different snap healing or aoe healing so you might prioritize something else over lotm or even fol, who knows what X player is capable of and what that moment calls for, mana efficiency will no doubt vary. I meant in a general way that it might not save mana even more than the others do, even they are passive you might save mana healing yourself (prydaz), tanks (shoulders), etc. Let me finally reiterate, I'm not saying this legendary is shit, not at all, no, nein, нет, stop. These are my opinions, take them or don't, but try not to riddle your own messages in narcissism. It's not fun having a conversation like that.

errr ok. Sorry for not agreeing with you I guess? I simply said that your mana saving statement was wrong and explained why. Take it however you want, but I definately didn't do it to insult you. This is supposed to be a discussion place, I just explained it -not just for you- but for anybody who might be interested.

I also respect your opinion, hence why skipped other of your points as I find them very personal opinion based. I'm simply stating my thoughts in the hope that other people might try what I'm saying and not only they might do better but they may also enjoy the playstyle derived from maraad's.

[EzG]

errr ok. Sorry for not agreeing with you I guess? I simply said that your mana saving statement was wrong and explained why. Take it however you want, but I definately didn't do it to insult you. This is supposed to be a discussion place, I just explained it -not just for you- but for anybody who might be interested.

I also respect your opinion, hence why skipped other of your points as I find them very personal opinion based. I'm simply stating my thoughts in the hope that other people might try what I'm saying and not only they might do better but they may also enjoy the playstyle derived from maraad's.

I get that you don't see it the same way as I do, it is in fact quite complicated to figure out why it's good.

So I'm missing the point that it's good? And this is because I don't understand this quite complicated situation and you do? Be more open minded and take a second to read and type. That's where you come off a little cocky and at one point telling me I'm just completely wrong (emoji [previous post]). The issue is you see yourself as 100% right with no room to evolve your opinion. The mana efficiency is based off of usage (i.e. how you use it, when you use it, etc.) and can be different in a variety of situations, and there is no point arguing math that represents a set condition and situation, healing can't be simmed to complete accuracy.

This is where I'm stopping the conversation with you. At this point I've restated myself a couple times and it's not taking me anywhere. This conversation has gone from me saying Ilterendi isn't the only legendary to beat Maraads, to you thinking I'm upset because you're not agreeing with me about mana. Half of everything you have said thus far I agree with. The other half is questionable to a per person scenario depending on what you want to do and how you want to play. With the legendaries I have including DoS, I would bank this item upon receiving. Other people might be living in a DoS empty world with bad legendaries, use maraads by all means, but at least use it efficiently and not over zealously use lotm like its your new main spell, and know what kind of hps or situations the other legendaries might display better. There are definitely some that do.

[Rorschachs]

Let me finally reiterate, I'm not saying this legendary is shit, not at all, no, nein, нет, stop.

It is shit. You can easily crit and kill yourself with it, it's terrible.

[Deleted]

Lol no more than you can without the cloak. Only time you really risk seriously injuring yourself is during Wings, especially if you also have the legendary belt.

The healing increase from Maraad's does not increase the damage taken. That's one of the reasons it's as good as it is.

I want a Maraad's to replace my Prydaz. I'm optimistic that it can be better. You can't gauge legendaries by projected HPS only.

[Kochanski]

Lol no more than you can without the cloak. Only time you really risk seriously injuring yourself is during Wings, especially if you also have the legendary belt.

The healing increase from Maraad's does not increase the damage taken. That's one of the reasons it's as good as it is.

I want a Maraad's to replace my Prydaz. I'm optimistic that it can be better. You can't gauge legendaries by projected HPS only.

Why would you ever replace Prydaz with the cloak??!! Prydaz is 10-15% of total healing on progression/remotely challenging content. Not to mention that the neck actually negates the damage from the occasional lotm use. I would never use the cloak over neck, even if didn't have tier/dos.

[Deleted]

If the absorb is worth about 10-15% of your total healing you're doing something wrong. Prydaz healing is largely a static amount of HPS depending on how much damage you take. At most it will be about 32k HPS with 1 mil shields every 30 seconds, if that's 10% of your healing you're only doing 316k HPS which is low for every fight. Sure, if that's what you're doing you will have a hard time finding a better legendary.

For me it's closer to 4-5% of my total healing done. I expect Maraad's by itself to about equal that healing, maybe a bit more if you consider it will save me mana over filler FoLs that I can then use to upgrade my IoL HLs to IoL FoLs. Reduce that by the healing gain from the Drape of Shame that I would have to drop in order to use and it will probably be less HPS. But that's an acceptable loss, as the spot healing from Maraad's can actually be directed to go to whoever needs it most (people low HP, so basically people close to dying), while Prydaz's healing always goes to myself - and I'm already one of the players least likely to die.
The mana saved has the same effect; instead of having to mana manage all the time by casting HLs during my IoL procs, I would actually be able to use more IoL procs on FoL which again is a big heal that can be directed to go to whoever needs it most.

But I don't have it yet and this is all just theory that needs experimenting. I've been wrong in the past. Like when I used Promises on M Krosus. That was stupid.

[EzG]

It is shit. You can easily crit and kill yourself with it, it's terrible.

There is nothing more exciting as 3 shotting yourself with lotm. It's unexpected and fun. I've only done it 2 times this xpac, both times I was like, whoa.

[Floopa]

maraad's talk is pointless. in 7.2 you can run M+ kara. enjoy farming kara for 910 drape of shame (baseline ilvl for lvl 10 m+) to carry throughout the entire expansion

^O^

[EzG]

maraad's talk is pointless. in 7.2 you can run M+ kara. enjoy farming kara for 910 drape of shame (baseline ilvl for lvl 10 m+) to carry throughout the entire expansion

^O^

Rip the 5% nerf and half as usefulness. Except a 910 drape will still probably be worth around 940-945.

[Deleted]

The healing increase from Maraad's does not increase the damage taken. That's one of the reasons it's as good as it is.

I want a Maraad's to replace my Prydaz. I'm optimistic that it can be better. You can't gauge legendaries by projected HPS only.

Listen to this wise man! I can attest that is very good, been using it for a while now and I wouldn't change for almost anything at the moment. Much less in 7.2 with the DoS nerf which will make Maraad's close to -if not to- bis legendary! Mark my words

[Deleted]

There is nothing more exciting as 3 shotting yourself with lotm. It's unexpected and fun. I've only done it 2 times this xpac, both times I was like, whoa.

If you're spamming LotM you're doing something seriously wrong. Casting it once every LoD (as you should with Maraad's) you're going to have a hard time killing yourself, and 3 shotting yourself becomes impossible as LoD has a decent cooldown. You do need to pay attention if your wings are up that you don't cast LotM when you're low, but that doesn't change at all from when you don't have Maraad's and for me personally has never been an issue (I like using LotM during Wings + Sac AM and I have yet to fuck it up).

maraad's talk is pointless. in 7.2 you can run M+ kara. enjoy farming kara for 910 drape of shame (baseline ilvl for lvl 10 m+) to carry throughout the entire expansion

^O^

The equip doesn't scale with item level, so the only critical healing increase stays the same even with M+. Along with the 50% nerf to the effect, it doesn't really change much.

Listen to this wise man! I can attest that is very good, been using it for a while now and I wouldn't change for almost anything at the moment. Much less in 7.2 with the DoS nerf which will make Maraad's close to -if not to- bis legendary! Mark my words

The DoS nerf comes at the same time as RtKZ M+ which will allow us to get a higher item level DoS which makes the stat difference less significant. Net outcome is that the value will probably be very similar.

[EzG]

If you're spamming LotM you're doing something seriously wrong. Casting it once every LoD (as you should with Maraad's) you're going to have a hard time killing yourself, and 3 shotting yourself becomes impossible as LoD has a decent cooldown. You do need to pay attention if your wings are up that you don't cast LotM when you're low, but that doesn't change at all from when you don't have Maraad's and for me personally has never been an issue (I like using LotM during Wings + Sac AM and I have yet to fuck it up).

Easy tiger. I'm not saying I spam it all the time. I'm saying I spammed it 3 times, saved 3 people from dying, but failed to notice that each was a huge wings induced crit that was taking 1/3 of my hp away each cast. Wasn't talking about having maraads or using maraads. Just a general oops this happened kind of story.

[magiee]

drape of shame coping a 5% nerf still going to bis or ?will haviong a higher ilvl clock be better now

[Crysth]

The effect will still be worth roughly 30-35 ilvls for paladins, since it's worth ~70+ ilvls for many at the moment.

[EzG]

The effect will still be worth roughly 30-35 ilvls for paladins, since it's worth ~70+ ilvls for many at the moment.

Numbers changed in the theorycrafting world. Holy discord was updated with info. Current cloak worth 42 ilvls.