Mass burnout.

[Raelbo]

No I really think the biggest issue is that everything seems to be relevant somehow for a mythic raider. Gotta do those daily emissary caches, gotta run M+ for your BiS raid trinket that is miles and miles ahead above everything else because dungeon trinkets weren't really balanced around going up to 900+, gotta farm AP for 54 so you can progress in mythic NH, gotta get your BiS legendary item because (especially in my case being a frost dk) it's super busted OP strong but is getting nerfed next patch and sadly you only have the second and third best, gotta farm gold or bloods or mats somehow to get your pots and flasks, gotta get ready for 7.2 so you know how best to get your new stuff going effectively... I don't think we'd have this issue if the content felt more optional. If the emissary cache and WQs were just like a rep thing and lower level gear thing then a mythic raider wouldn't feel obligated to do it... but until I get every single legendary item for my class I kinda have to keep doing it.

Mythic raiding is designed for the top 1-2% of people who are prepared to put in the most time and effort to beat the content. If it wasn't these things you were sinking your time and effort into doing, it would be something else because if you weren't there would be other people who would be, and the content would be targetted at them, thus out of reach for you.

[Deleted]

Imo theres too much content for me. i don't like the way traits + legendarys define my "ms" in this expansion.
Farming tons of m+/lfr/HC/normal/mythix just to get that certain legendary to drop isn't fun.

All this was fun and engaging in the beginning of the legion because it was new.

I've tried to get some motivation to level and gear some alts but every time i log in, i check my world map and class hall and then the "burnout" hits me because of the thought i have to do the same shit as my main (Farm tons of content for legendaries and traits).

I might get back into the 7.2 just because of the raid but after that i think im done again.

Im just done with the m+ farming.

[Rhov]

Took a break from mythic raiding (3 days raiding guild, 4 during progress) since mid-December and started again like 2 weeks ago, trying to catching up etc. Main reason was that burnout feel since this expansion went live + exams period overlapping with the NH opening = disaster.
Also I believe that this expansion is actually the first one, that if you decide to take a break and then come back, you are really far behind. But oh well, playing since TBC (semi-hardcore since ICC), I feel that despite those drawbacks it's one of the most decent expansions (overall) in the recent years and with some tuning it can be the best one. Just my opinion though.

[Raelbo]

WotLK also had a lot to do, and I played a lot more back then. Yet I never felt burnt out.

There are a myriad of possible reasons for that. First of all you were younger with (likely) less real life responsibilities and more real life resilience. Secondly you should also consider the long term effects of burnout - back then you hadn't been playing this game for nearly as long.

It's not about the amount of stuff to do; it's about the quality, and above all, the spirit of the stuff to do. And WoW has lost its spirit quite some time ago.

In your opinion, which you are entitled to have, but not, I would argue, objectively true.

The endless grind for AP and RNG rewards combined with the 1000% worthless reputation vendor rewards are killing the purpose of the dailies. The RNG especially. Previously you could at least set a goal (such as a piece of gear from a vendor) and work to achieve it. Now you have no goals, just eternal grind. We are basically floating in nothingness without a direction, with no fixed points whatsoever. That is the problem.

From a different perspective we are no longer constrained to follow a railroaded path. We are free to decide how much effort to put and when and the game will reward us accordingly. This system is great for people who are able to manage themselves.

- - - Updated - - -

Why do you think blizzard is refunding AP?

Because they don't want raid bosses downed on the first day of the next raid.

This makes no sense. They could just as easily achieve that result by tuning bosses to an appropriate level for whatever they choose the AP trait structure to look like. So there must be some other reason for this refund. Fortunately the reason is pretty obvious and I am happy to share it if you are struggling to figure it out

They are refunding AP because the concept of "paragon traits" is to provide a means of continued progression once the level cap has been reached. If they raise the level cap then new traits need to fit in between paragon traits and the previous cap. So the solution is to refund existing paragon traits, convert them into progress towards the new traits and add a new set of paragon traits on the end to provide the same kind of long term progression.

Nice, simple, elegant.

The work put into artifact progression prior to 7.2 is still rewarded, and those who got above 35 will keep their advantage, it will simply take a slightly different form.

If the game designers announce to the world "I am building the possibility for you to gain INFINITE power" in a game, then whose fault is it that some players try to gain infinite power?

By definition "INFINITE power" is unobtainable. Ergo anyone trying to obtain infinite power is an idiot. The point of infinite power is that it allows the individual to choose where to settle. Essentially the entire responsibility is placed with the player thus the consequences, good or bad, are attributable to the player.

This time around AP is the new X-factor along with titan forging and BIS legendary weapons. They actually gamed themselves by this system because if the game really offers "infinite power" progression, then it doesn't matter if everybody does it or only relatively few, somebody is going to attempt to and reach very large levels of power. And then what? Oh, my bad, the raids are too easy we need to redo the AP system..... LOL.

That is just funny.

If they really were serious about this AP progression system they would have actually built the game so it would survive the potential for some players to go into a read with max AP for NH. But they didn't and that is their fault. Now they have to redo AP in order to provide some semblance of difficulty for the next raid tier.... I can not say that they intended it to be this way from the beginning but still that's what they get for advertising and promoting this new power progression system.

Sorry but this entire line of reasoning is totally incoherent. Please explain how the static 14.5% buff from the 19 last artifact traits makes any conceptual difference to the manner in which they tune new content? All it does is changes the final numbers, it doesn't affect how they do it. We're all doing 14.5% more damage? Great, simply boost encounter HP by 14.5%. Done.

The reason for the "refund" is because it would be silly to level up 35 artifact traits, then do 19 paragon traits, then go back to doing another 20 regular traits, then do more paragon traits. Like I said earlier, if they want to expand the artifact traits, new traits should slot between the old maximum level trait and the paragon traits. It's just common sense.

[MrExcelion]

Zeldas partly to blame, and Mass Effect soon

[Deleted]

Zeldas partly to blame, and Mass Effect soon

You really think there's a large cohort of dedicated WoW raiders that drop WoW for fucking Zelda and Mass Effect Andromeda?

Get real. Springtime is a bigger factor than those.

[Tome]

Legion gives us a lot to do, but everything is tied to artifact power. Everything you do, boils down to artifact power, and that's pretty much it. PvE is AP farm, PvP is AP farm. Dungeons, raids, battlegrounds, world quests are all boiled down to gathering AP.

Factions with reputation got crap rewards, it gives you absolutely nothing so there's next to no reason to do them unless it's for flying achievement later. Professions have ended up in a state they are all useless except for alchemy, so again, the reputation rewards are crap because professions are crap.

At least in the past there were different things to do for different reasons. Factions gave good items, head/shoulder enchants and profession recipes. Professions was needed to keep most of your pieces enchanted or strengthened, like enchanting for certain pieces and weapons, jewelcrafting for gem slots, leatherworking/tailoring for leg enchants, blacksmith for crafted items and PvP weapon chains.

All existed for a good reason and people traded their services. It all were different things branching out towards different goals. Everything now is all about AP as the end reward, and that is crap boring.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Screenshot or it didn't happen! Someones lucky!!

Or wait, you talking about the chest of weekly disappointment right? Du dum dum 3 storm relics in chest 3 weeks in a row. Nice compliment to the 6 boots, 11 belts and 8 cloaks I've gotten from there.

By "all my upgrades" I mean that I usually find ilvl890-900 items, and they still go towards my maximum ilvl (even if I don't equip them). This at least gets me invited to pugs when I'm bored...

[InfiniteCharger]

This makes no sense. They could just as easily achieve that result by tuning bosses to an appropriate level for whatever they choose the AP trait structure to look like. So there must be some other reason for this refund. Fortunately the reason is pretty obvious and I am happy to share it if you are struggling to figure it out

The point being there was a problem with the original system otherwise they wouldn't have changed it, hence the refund. I could be wrong but I seriously doubt this refund was originally planned in the beginning.

They are refunding AP because the concept of "paragon traits" is to provide a means of continued progression once the level cap has been reached. If they raise the level cap then new traits need to fit in between paragon traits and the previous cap. So the solution is to refund existing paragon traits, convert them into progress towards the new traits and add a new set of paragon traits on the end to provide the same kind of long term progression.

Nice, simple, elegant.

The work put into artifact progression prior to 7.2 is still rewarded, and those who got above 35 will keep their advantage, it will simply take a slightly different form.

Again this was never mentioned at launch. If they had said that AP caps would be increasing over time and that new traits would be added that would be one thing. But they didn't. So I can't really say for sure this was always the plan. Paragon traits are something being added to address the problems with the original system. If 54 traits was the only cap on AP expected to last the entire expac that would be a disaster at this point. Again, the refund itself is basically their way of fixing the system so that future raids are more relevant to AP progression without having the issues they had with earlier ones. But I am almost sure they will expand AP again and add traits again for the very last raid tier.

By definition "INFINITE power" is unobtainable. Ergo anyone trying to obtain infinite power is an idiot. The point of infinite power is that it allows the individual to choose where to settle. Essentially the entire responsibility is placed with the player thus the consequences, good or bad, are attributable to the player.

Sorry but this entire line of reasoning is totally incoherent. Please explain how the static 14.5% buff from the 19 last artifact traits makes any conceptual difference to the manner in which they tune new content? All it does is changes the final numbers, it doesn't affect how they do it. We're all doing 14.5% more damage? Great, simply boost encounter HP by 14.5%. Done.

The reason for the "refund" is because it would be silly to level up 35 artifact traits, then do 19 paragon traits, then go back to doing another 20 regular traits, then do more paragon traits. Like I said earlier, if they want to expand the artifact traits, new traits should slot between the old maximum level trait and the paragon traits. It's just common sense.

Agreed. I said there is no infinite progress in the game it is an illusion. It was an enticement to the players and many probably assumed that 54 traits would be it for the whole expansion and not require more grinding. The point I am making is that they had to change the AP system from what it was at launch because it would not work for the entire expansion as is. I am not sure but I don't believe that Paragon traits were part of the original design or that they were planning on doing a refund of traits. That is not the players fault and that has absolutely nothing to do with burnout. As it stands even after this refund and the paragon traits, they will have to still add ANOTHER layer of traits and another cap of AP for the last raid tier. Otherwise, bosses will be too easy.

[Deleted]

Yes, new traits, more AP grind, then a new AP dump trait that goes up to 50 points.

AP has nothing to do with the burnout i feel. It has to do that once you get that AP (which is fairy easily obtainable and only made easier for alts and mains) you kinda have nothing to do.

On my main i got 54 points in 2 weaps, close to 910 gear, and next to mythic/heroic nighthold i feel i got nothing to do. Even when spamming high end mythic+ gear upgrades are very rare. Old raids dont give much and i dont get why i cant masterloot on a pug raid if its announced. Very annoying.

So what else is there? I guess pvp. But pve wise, ive done it all and more. So enjoying the mythic raids ofcourse and hope they soon add new dungeons etc to do

To add a list:
- world quests pointless
- withering pointless (cept to prepare rep for 7.2 exhalted+ rep)
- Suramar nothing to do when done the questline
- Brawler guild done, nothing to do
- pvp - my spec unplayable due to overnerfs and i mean literally unplayable
- Emissary pointless (max reps and LFR/other content just as high or better chance for legends)

Whats there to do now?
Work on wowprogress resume
Mythic raiding
Heroic farm raid
Bit of M+
Perhaps the occaisonal alt

Wishes:
Wish they let me save points for my main spec weap as i really dont wanna play another spec

Suggestions?

If anyone has some nice suggestions let me know

[Deleted]

3 of the MYTHIC NH bosses are tuned around 54 traits

fixed that for you

with raid ilvls around 910 no boss requires 54 traits anymore.

[MrExcelion]

You really think there's a large cohort of dedicated WoW raiders that drop WoW for fucking Zelda and Mass Effect Andromeda?.

Not dropping, but just logging in for raids as the OP suggests

[Deleted]

The game needs timed rewarding events. It doesn't need effin grinds to keep people playing, people get bored of those. It needs fun, not repetition.

- - - Updated - - -

Zeldas partly to blame, and Mass Effect soon

Oh cmon... zelda sold 1.3 millions worldwide. I don't even think WoW exists in japan, so cut 300k from there. You are sugesting that every zelda player is a wow player? Even if it was the case, it would only be 1/5th or 1/6th of the playerbase. No, it's not related to other games. It's related to WoW itself.

[Deleted]

AP has nothing to do with the burnout i feel. It has to do that once you get that AP (which is fairy easily obtainable and only made easier for alts and mains) you kinda have nothing to do.

On my main i got 54 points in 2 weaps, close to 910 gear, and next to mythic/heroic nighthold i feel i got nothing to do.

Maybe you should play less than 15 hours/day, just a guess.

- - - Updated - - -

Not dropping, but just logging in for raids as the OP suggests

The amount of people playing Zelda and to-be-playing ME:A is insignificant compared to WoW. To have a large amount of WoW players dial down their play time outside of raids because of these 2 games is ridiculous, in part because one of them isn't even out yet.

With that mindset we had game releases in the past few months that were much bigger than either Zelda or Mass Effect, yet we did not experience any significant drop-off due to those.

It's illogical.

[Morgan Pain]

to much new content - to fast.
People need a chance to enjoy their gear!

Worked my ass off to get itemlevel 885 around christmas.
- went away for a few weeks to play a season of Diablo, got back and geared up a new toon from itemlevel 750 to 885 in 2-3 days.
all traits on weapon after 3 days casual play...
Remind me what was the point of the grind?

Il take time of to play diablo again now.
whatever i loose in progress for being away for 3-4 weeks il get back after 1 day when 7.2 lands and all my gear gets obsolete anyway.

[Deleted]

Everything boils down to AP and I got sick and tired of it. Titanforged shenanigans also made me sad. I unsubbed a couple weeks ago and I'm probably not coming back for ToS.

[Spl4sh3r]

Switch came two weeks ago, is that something that your Guild Members have gotten? With that said, you can't expect everyone to be on every single day in a year. Sometimes you take tiny breaks, with that I mean the everyday breaks and come online to do something quickly then go again.

[Deleted]

My guild has grown from 8 ppl who need to recruit randoms at the start of legion to 20 ppl who can start going mythic soon. So it probably not only burnout, but other problems, tht drive ppl away.

Also,ppl who have their weapons full will likely take some breaks to recharge and only show up for raids.

[Nalam the Venom]

I'm not burnt out. I just find times in between patches to catch up on other games. I rarely know any people that play WoW and only WoW every night 365days a year.

- - - Updated - - -



Because People can choose pretty easily to stop doing something they don't enjoy doing? If I get bored of Raiding I stop Raiding. I don't really care if other people want me to keep Raiding.

I don't like working. But it's not like i can just stop working.. Just because it's not "Fun" anymore.

[Deleted]

Maybe you should play less than 15 hours/day, just a guess.

- - - Updated - - -



The amount of people playing Zelda and to-be-playing ME:A is insignificant compared to WoW. To have a large amount of WoW players dial down their play time outside of raids because of these 2 games is ridiculous, in part because one of them isn't even out yet.

With that mindset we had game releases in the past few months that were much bigger than either Zelda or Mass Effect, yet we did not experience any significant drop-off due to those.

It's illogical.

Always an underachiever that makes the "no life" comment. Maybe try to stick to something instead and play efficiently - see what you can accomplish and you will find that 15 hours per day would let you have 15 chars with maxed out artifacts and 900 ilvl.