No sense of progression in Nighthold - Preach video

[Deleted]

He's been playing full time since the start of MoP, playing a Warrior, then a Rogue in early WoD, then a Warrior again in HFC, now a Fire Mage in HFC.

If you need to rely on ad hominems because you can't discredit his arguments, than why are you here?

This isn't about 'defending Preach' this is about not clearly lying for malicious reasons.

He did not achieve any Ahead of the Curve (let alone Cutting Edge) in MoP.

[elvor0]

wow why dont you spread this? if this really happened why dont you tell people, i mean, hes a big guy you would def get alot of internet points if you could prove him to just be bad at the game

What not being in top 100 means you're bad now?

Also, are we now in Real Housewives of MMO Champion?

[Deleted]

The first boss on mythic has been free-loot for years now, so Skorpyron is what he is supposed to be. The problem starts with the bosses after him.

While certainly "more difficult" than Skorpyron, the Chronomatic Anomaly and Trilliax are still pushovers for any decent mythic raid, both in terms of mechanics (no big difference or ram-up compared to heroic) and tuning. We can debate the exact number, but if you need significantly more than 20-25 tries combined to kill the first 3 bosses, you would struggle with most mythic bosses in recent memory. And because these 3 bosses are so easy, a really high amount of guilds were 3/10 mythic really, really quick (first or second week of mythic). And yes, with item levels just at 900 or even slightly below and only 4x-50 traits on players and not being really, really good, the next bosses are a huge step up.

Again, we could argue about the exact numbers and they obviously differ from raid to raid but I would characterize NH mythic like this:

Bosses 1-3: "free-loot" with 0-10 tries for a decent raid
Bosses 4-7: "medium" with 40-60 tries
Bosses 8-10: "hard" with 100+ tries

The truth is that none of the next 4 bosses is even as hard as, for example, Gorefiend was. Gorefiend took 100+ tries for most guilds, for many it was a lot more. But there are no "easy" bosses in NH that fall in the 10-25 tries category and we have always had at least some of those in raids before.

EN had only easy and (barely) medium bosses (if you did not do Cenarius in the first couple of weeks or so). ToV had harder bosses, but many raids didn't bother with them before the significant nerfs because of the short time frame they had before Christmas/new year. So up until the 4-7th bosses in NH mythic, most raids have mostly experienced easy bosses.

There is no staggering in terms of time or difficulty from the free-loot bosses to the medium ones and that is frustrating for the players.

To be honest, I think in general, the tuning of NH is good, because it presents a challenge for a long time. Every boss after the first 3 feels like an accomplishment to me, while in most other raids before anything except 1-2 bosses was just a matter of a few hours of progress at most.

[FelPlague]

What not being in top 100 means you're bad now?

Also, are we now in Real Housewives of MMO Champion?

i mean the him bailing mid progress, and having not really ever "been" in method, yet he talks about it all the time

[Myta]

He did not achieve any Ahead of the Curve (let alone Cutting Edge) in MoP.

Right, do you realize that MoP was when he transitioned for hardcore raiding into doing purely youtube and casual hardmode raiding? MoP was when his first son was born. Even now his guild is one of the few thousand in the world who are 7/10, so I would weigh his opinions higher than say yours, knowing his decade plus history of raiding in WoW.

Your argument is a non-argument, it relies on attacking his character and not his argument. The reality is Nighthold has a serious issue with burn out, and it's not the difficulty of the content.

[Deleted]

As far as I remember he stopped playing WoW like half year ago. This makes his whining even funnier.

He never quit WoW roflmao.

[KaPe]

He says in the video he doesnt think Nighthold is too hard, yet complains about the punishing mechanics the whole video. So which is it, is it too difficult or not?

You realize that both can be true, right? You can have a difficult mechanic that eventually becomes trivial thanks to gearing. You're not outgearing Grand Conjuction - it will still murder you. You will not outgear Krosus adds - they will still deal massive damage if left unchecked. Even easy stuff like Trillax cakes can't be ignored. You used to be able to power through a lot of nasty stuff once you got a bit of gear. Your raid grew in strength with every reset, without relying on luck.

Right now, however, it's mostly about the content being balanced around high enough item level that the basic Mythic drops don't really make it much easier. You need Warforged/Titanforged procs to really feel the difference. In case of more difficult bosses, you probably used a Vantus rune, which means that on "farm" kills you will do 3% less damage and take 1.5% more damage.

So, it's basically "difficult enough for first kills, but highly annoying on farm".

I believe yesterday's Q&A had something about Titanforged procs being a bit too common. While not ideal solution, it is part of the problem - it's very easy to get great stuff from easier difficulties, so Mythic has to be balanced around it. Thus meaning that basic items are largely worthless.

[Queen of Hamsters]

So on HC, kill times go down and become easier each week thanks to gear increases, but not on Mythic...? Yeah sorry, I don't buy it.
Preach is the sort of player that bases his videos on his own emotions. He's been coming across as someone who doesn't enjoy the game for years now so why is he playing at all?

People that feel burnt out probably suffer from something deeper; They don't fully enjoy the game. Sorry, the game shouldn't be tailored to fit that crowd.

[FelPlague]

So on HC, kill times go down and become easier each week thanks to gear increases, but not on Mythic...? Yeah sorry, I don't buy it.
Preach is the sort of player that bases his videos on his own emotions. He's been coming across as someone who doesn't enjoy the game for years now so why is he playing at all?

People that feel burnt out probably suffer from something deeper; They don't fully enjoy the game. Sorry, the game shouldn't be tailored to fit that crowd.

because mythic has mechanics that you have to do no matter how strong you are, where in heroic you can just curb stomp everything once you get more gear
also rmemeber that it is much easier to get the gear required to curb stomp heroic, then mythic, i know alot of my fellow raiders had gear from EN/TOV they wouldent replace in NH till mythic because of titanforging

[Deleted]

So on HC, kill times go down and become easier each week thanks to gear increases, but not on Mythic...? Yeah sorry, I don't buy it.
Preach is the sort of player that bases his videos on his own emotions. He's been coming across as someone who doesn't enjoy the game for years now so why is he playing at all?

People that feel burnt out probably suffer from something deeper; They don't fully enjoy the game. Sorry, the game shouldn't be tailored to fit that crowd.

I imagine he doesn't. He tried to leave WoW once before and shift his channel to SWTOR, it was a horrible mistake and he quickly came back.

Very few WoW content producers succeed after they move away from WoW, there's just so many players generating income.

[Goldenboy1]

Personally I think a huge issue here is the gearing process specifically titanforging and warforging. Due to these systems, the gear curve has dramatically evened out which is a good thing for the casual player but the guilds pushing mythic suffer. Due to this new system of easy gearing raid bosses are over inflated because Blizzard now assumes everyone is, proportionally, more geared for content than in previous expansions. An example of this is High Botanist on Mythic mode having 4.2 billion HP, as well as the hard dps check on Star Augur. If Blizzard assumes all 20 players are in this state of being overly saturated by ilvs, they design fights taking this into account. However, considering Mythic checks and mechanics if as little as 3 players are slightly behind this over-inflated expected gear level, due to competition, simple bad luck, rerolling or non-throughput legendary items, the transition from kill to farm is not nearly as stable as in previous raiding tiers. The marginal value from new gear in Mythic progression is less than previous raiding tiers. From a group finding perspective, ILV used to be indicative of progression and skill and now its RNG. This was an issue near the end of WOD where players farmed Mythic dungeons and were picked over raiders due to ilv to only deal 30k dps.

This also applies to the topic of gear not being rewarding. As is, you can replace gear from end game content by helping Grandma Tauren handle some worms.

[Deleted]

It's a pretty good raid it you ask me, especially the Gul'dan fight.

The fights are pretty good in my opinion. In terms of simple fun, I'd say Skorpyron, Spellblade, Krosus, Star Augur and Gul'dan are winners.

For me the aesthetics of the place are disappointing. It's the Suramar City architecture we've seen all expansion, and Suramar City generally suffers from a lack of vibrancy. It's a mellow color palette of blue'ish purple all the way through. For me, these kind of things always contribute to raid fatigue, just like EN was full on red and HFC was just green everywhere.

In recent memory SoO was different enough to remain interesting, just like ToT with different very distinct elements to the instance (Isle of Thunder troll themed approach, cave section, underground dungeon, Lei Shen his throne and Ra-den his rape cave).

[kamuimac]

What not being in top 100 means you're bad now?

Also, are we now in Real Housewives of MMO Champion?

dont you know the rules of mmo-champ ? anyone who is in guild even 1 below you can be safecely called garbage while anyone being even 1 above your guidl is clearly no lifer spending 24/7 in game -_-

[Deleted]

This further proves the point that NH is tuned around the indirect nerfs coming in 7.2

overtuned aesthetically one-dimensional raid filled with add-management fights

[Deleted]

I believe the raid was deliberately overtuned so it will take longer to clear but when 7.2 comes out it will indirectly nerf it because all the new AP traits and mythic+s all new ilvl gains.

We have a winner.

1) item level difference between what it was at the start of Mythic NH and now is the smallest it has ever been in WoW raiding
2) similarly, the difference between top guild average ilvl and regular guild average ilvl was the smallest it has ever been at the start of NH
3) raid is tuned around 7.2 indirect nerfs
4) raid is tuned around having Titanforged gear

Now if they had followed the pattern in previous expansions, they would have tuned it around the DEFAULT gear that can drop from heroic, and not around something that should be a bonus. That would be 890 + 2 legendaries + 3 890 relics in your artifact, increasing slowly with each boss, but not to the extent that having 905 loot drop feels like completely wasted because its barely an upgrade and didnt Titanforge...

[Zka]

He never quit WoW roflmao.

As crap, indeed, he didn't quit. It was Heelsvsbabyface. My mistake.

[smaktat]

Video is fine, makes a lot of good points and comes from a guy who actually plays the game / has a good opinion of what the average players goes through. Keep in mind half the people who comments to these trash forums don't even have a subscription.

[Zka]

This isn't about 'defending Preach' this is about not clearly lying for malicious reasons.

Sorry, I was not lying, I was just mistaking the guy for another vlogger.

[Prothynyas]

yeh we have raid fatigue to , mythic just not worth it for some reason

[Todesbote]

Warforged / Titanforged is the cause of the problem. Yes it is as simple as that.