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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Skorpyron: add cluster$%!* in a circular room
    Chronomatic anomaly: add cluster$%!* in a circular room
    Trilliax: add cluster$%!* in a circular room
    Aluriel: add cluster$%!* in a circular room
    Tichondrius: add cluster$%!* in a square room
    "High" Botanist: add cluster$%!* in a circular room
    Elisande: add cluster$%!* in a circular room
    Gul'dan: add cluster$%!* in a circular room

    That's 8/10 bosses

    Odyn: add cluster$%!* in a circular room
    Helya: add cluster$%!* in a circular room with two adjacent circular platforms

    That's 2/3 bosses

    Renferal: add cluster$%!* in 3 connected circular rooms
    Dragons of the Nightmare: add cluster$%!* in a circular room (at least up until mythic)
    Cenarius: add cluster$%!* in a square room (but hey they tried at least, didn't they?)
    Xavius: add cluster$%!* in a circular room

    That's 4/7 bosses. Il'gynoth excluded because adds were actually fitting for that fight, especially on mythic

    In the past each tier always had a couple of bosses with unconventional mechanics. Construct on Socrethar, Oregorger maze, Tho'gar's trains, Iron Maiden ship, gunship fights in ICC and DS, vehicle fight in Ulduar, gauntlet runs in Ulduar and BWL etc., you get the idea. Did Blizzard hire interns to design T19?

    Oh yeah, and almost every fight bar dragons mythic is a mongocleave for melee. What happened to engaging mechanics like the dance on Will of the Emperor?
    The way I see it you have three ways to approach a fight that are entertaining to the player because they interact directly with what the player has control over.

    Their damage output. Their healing output. Their survival.

    Having things to kill relates to the damage.
    Having things that can kill you relate to survival.
    Having things that damage you but don't kill you relates to healing.

    Unless you plan on introducing a new way of interacting with the game in a meaningful way (good luck), fights will continue to be about killing stuff before it kills you. That stuff is sometimes adds.
    Last edited by mmoc50312ce475; 2017-03-17 at 01:23 PM.

  2. #42
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    Just because you lack the mental capacity to judge encounters as a whole and instead only manage to see the shape of a room and adds as a boolean value doesn't mean things are as bad as you want it to sound like.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    Skorpyron - requires top-notch management of adds to succeed
    Chronomatic Anomaly - requires flawless management of adds to succeed
    Spellblade Aluriel - requires perfect management of adds to succeed
    Tichondrius - requires sublime management of adds to succeed
    Botanist - requires unprecedented management of adds to succeed
    Elisande - requires pristine management of adds to succeed
    Gul´dan - requires prodigious management of adds to succeed

    ??????
    Only Alluriel and Elisande are about add management (and positioning as well).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by thilicen View Post
    Just because you lack the mental capacity to judge encounters as a whole and instead only manage to see the shape of a room and adds as a boolean value doesn't mean things are as bad as you want it to sound like.
    /thread

    People just love whining .

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by coprax View Post
    No, in the mythic video (havent played it myself) I just see three bosses pulled on top of each other and nuked. This is not a council-fight definition for me.

    I mean like High King Maulgar style. Each boss must be handled differently, and be tanked in different corners of the room. AND requiring more than 2 tanks, maybe a caster-tank as well.
    Botanist is a council figth. The numbers of tanks and boss positioning are irrelevant.
    At last one figth for each tier was always a council figth, and nothing has changed.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buildapanda View Post
    If you think word choice is a way to pick at someone's logic then you need a better pick.
    Fine, how about the one where fights he mentions were basically just "add cluster****s" with some gimmicks?
    - Construct on Sorcethar - basically interrupt-fest with adds (basically the only new thing here was the vehicle) -> only 1 (a tank) got to do the gimmick
    - Tho'gar's trains - Adds with the gimmick of trains (don't stand in shit and prio adds)
    - Iron Maiden's ship - the one thing he mentions to be good here is actually an add phase... just that it also has you jump on a hook to get there
    - Gunship ICC - Add cluster****
    - Gauntlet in Ulduar - the whole P1 + gauntlet is one huge add cluster****
    - Will of the Emperor - add cluster**** with the gimmick of sidestepping for dmg boost

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    A good fight is the one you remember a few years down the line. Here's all encounters that had something memorable going for them (excluding vanilla and TBC since even add cluster$%!* in circular rooms were creative back then):

    Malygos: drake "vehicles"
    Sarthation: first boss that introduced the concept of "hardmodes"
    Flame Leviathan: vehicles
    Razorgore: harpoons
    Kologarn: the first immobile "living wall" kind of boss (Kromog and Krosus are obviously spiritual successors, even the names are similar)
    Mimiron: space management (at least on firefighter mode)
    Vezax: mana management
    Yogg-Saron: sanity management
    Faction Champions: an atypical add fight
    Gunship Battle: lots of jumping, rocket packs
    Valithria: a "healing" boss
    Lana'thel: vampiric bites
    Lich King: changing environment
    Ascendant Council: very heavy movement
    Cho'gall: sanity management
    Nefarian: lava platforms
    Atramedes: sound management
    Al'akir: flying in 3rd phase
    Alysrazor: flying
    Rhyolith: leg management
    Fandral: form and concentration management
    Ragnaros: just an insane fight overall with lots of new mechanics
    Hagara: forming a friendship line between the storm attractors
    Ultraxion: heroic willpower
    Spine of Deathwing: rolls
    Will of the Emperor: the dance
    Koralon: leg management
    Amber-Shaper: amber monstrosity construct
    Tsulong: day and night phases
    Lei Shi: hide mechanic
    Horridon: a huge arena and dino management
    Tortos: turtle football and bat kiting
    Ji-Kun: platform jumping
    Durumu: the maze. THE MAZE!
    Dark Animus: interesting add management
    Lei Shen: same as Ragnaros
    Immerseus: split and heal mechanics
    Sha of Pride: the maze pt. 2
    Galakras: storming the towers
    Spoils of Pandaria: a 4 sector fight
    Blackfuse: conveyor belts
    Paragons: a barrage of mechanics
    Garrosh: same as Ragnaros

    I'm sure I missed a lot but you get the point, very few of the new fights are memorable despite Blizzard having way more experience now and superior technology.
    people hated the drake vehicles
    lol what? just because it introduced a new dificulty that makes it cool? they dont do hardmode anymore because its annoying that people can fuck up the mechanic, or you have to go "normal hardmode X boss"
    again people dont like vehicles, i do, but a majority of the player base hates vehicle bosses because you have to learn a new rotation
    lol what? there is nothing special about this fight, you claim the harpoons are such a cool special mechanic but they arnt, its literally "kill adds, then attack boss" the harpoons could have not existed, and the boss just comes down every X time and it would work the exact same, again you keep genrelizing shit, and it shows your bias
    lol what? no hes not, you seem to forget kiljaden?
    again you keep bringing up bosses and saying "such cool mechanics why dont they do this anymore" uhh they do
    yeah mana management, but this was allways a thing ,just this boss more then any other
    again tons of bosses had tons this before, just it wasent called sanity, and was done in a diffrernt way
    people hated faction champs more then anything ever
    again lots of people hated this fight
    yes healing fight cool
    vamp... what? the vamprici bite mechanic was insanely simply its not something like "omfg coolest mechanic ever" and there is tons of mechanics like it to this day
    changing enviroment? what? all it does is its a big circle, then a small circle...


    im stopping here at wrath because again you are showing your massive bias
    you claim all these "its just a circle with adds" fights are stupid and bad, then try to point out how old "circle with adds" fights are so cool because X reason, and nighthold doesent have these...
    (allthough i laugh as you talking about dark animus and immersues like they are anything other then an add clusterfuck, immerseus was literally 10% killing the boss, and his 2 mechanics, the oher 90% dealing with adds)
    lets do the same bias you just did, but for the bosses you just claimed were nothing but stupid add cluster fuck

    Scorp. i cant, it is just a cluster fuck
    Chrom. Debuff timing managment, interupting, and working with time.
    trilliax. Debuff managment and working to clean the room
    aluriel. Debuff managment and can fight her anywhere
    tich. Blowing up runes well also having to avoid spreadin the corruption
    elisande working with time and making sure to place orbs in the right spots to dodge balls
    guldan, debuff management and knowing when to break mechanics, and to use your bonus ability

    Odyn is about timing and perfect placement of things like tornados
    Helya is about absorbing damage and placement of goo

    renferal is placement of green and tornados
    dragons is about managing the changing mechanics of the boss (you cry about it being an add fuck but it literally only has 2 types of adds, and 1 of them only comes up if you fuck up)
    cenarius you need to decide on what adds to split up, and what ones to save, to give you different buffs, and what ones to kill in what order to get rid of differnt debuffs
    xavius is about sanity managment (something you use to say why yog and cho'gall arnt shit, but ignore it for xavius)


    so please again, STOP you are being extremely bias, and it is so easy to see

    you say chogall and yog are super imaginative because of their sanity management, but then hate on xavius without mentioning its sanity management.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halobob87 View Post
    Only Alluriel and Elisande are about add management (and positioning as well).

    - - - Updated - - -



    /thread

    People just love whining .

    - - - Updated - - -



    Botanist is a council figth. The numbers of tanks and boss positioning are irrelevant.
    They are probably burnt out with the game and looking to blame Blizzard for it.

    They've probably played for 3 or more years and despite recognising that they probably haven't played another game for nearly as many hours or as many years, blame the developer for their lack of enjoyment rather than the very natural change in their own likes and dislikes.

    Then they look back at the game through this new lens and see things differently to how they saw it when they began and blame Blizzard for that too.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by coprax View Post
    No, in the mythic video (havent played it myself) I just see three bosses pulled on top of each other and nuked. This is not a council-fight definition for me.

    I mean like High King Maulgar style. Each boss must be handled differently, and be tanked in different corners of the room. AND requiring more than 2 tanks, maybe a caster-tank as well.
    each boss has its own abilities, and they are just being tanked together, not all by 1 tank though

    is blood council in HFC not a council fight because bloodboil and blademaster were tanked together?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    The Lich King fight actually had other things going for it except being an add cluster$%!* in a circular room. You had debuff management, the platform breaking and the Frostmourne room. The only notable thing about these new fights is that they are add cluster$%!* in circular rooms.
    Why is LKs debuff mechanic special when none of these bosses mechanics are? Trilliax's cake mechanic is a lot more interactive and indicative than LKs was.

  9. #49
    So 1 add is an 'add clusterfuck'?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    Why is LKs debuff mechanic special when none of these bosses mechanics are? Trilliax's cake mechanic is a lot more interactive and indicative than LKs was.
    yeah the op has an agenda to make legion look shitty, he is making old ,mechanics off to be so amazing well ignoring current ones
    as i said earlier, he compliments yog and chogall saying "they had sanity managment to make them not just shitty circle rooms with adds" meanwhile he says xavius is just a circle room with shitty add killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Nahela View Post
    So 1 add is an 'add clusterfuck'?
    dont try to apply logic to the op
    he is a no logic zone
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by permp View Post
    Raids nowdays.

    Requiring to learn something new is bad thing for the game.
    Since so many people have access to it, it is a bad thing. Hardcore raiders didn't hate it, in fact flame leviathan and the icc gunship were the easiest to zerg, more like the vast mayority of players didn't get how they worked.

  12. #52
    Deleted
    Ulduar raid:
    Razorscale: add clusterfuck in a circular room
    Ignis: add clusterfuck in a square room
    XT: add clusterfuck in a square room
    Auriaya: add clusterfuck in a corridor
    Thorim: add clousterfuck in a circular room
    Freya: add clusterfuck in a circular room
    Mimiron: add clusterfuck in a circular room
    Vezax: add clusterfuck in a circular room
    Yogg: add clusterfuck in a circular room

    What's your fucking point?

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allenseiei View Post
    Since so many people have access to it, it is a bad thing. Hardcore raiders didn't hate it, in fact flame leviathan and the icc gunship were the easiest to zerg, more like the vast mayority of players didn't get how they worked.
    it wasent that it was dificult, it was that alot of people HATED having to learn new abilities, and do something that they dont have at all times (look at guldan, most of the time people forget to use those abilities, and it took us till reaching heroic guldan for me to finally be able to get through to our healers heads that its 1 million total, not 1 million per person for the healing shield)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by slaskel View Post
    Ulduar raid:
    Razorscale: add clusterfuck in a circular room
    Ignis: add clusterfuck in a square room
    XT: add clusterfuck in a square room
    Auriaya: add clusterfuck in a corridor
    Thorim: add clousterfuck in a circular room
    Freya: add clusterfuck in a circular room
    Mimiron: add clusterfuck in a circular room
    Vezax: add clusterfuck in a circular room
    Yogg: add clusterfuck in a circular room

    What's your fucking point?
    ^^^^ exactly, the op just has an agenda to push of *make sure everyone knows legion fucking sucks* and hes bending the truth to try and make his point look better
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  14. #54
    Deleted
    Real life

    School - add clusterfuck in rectangular room
    Work - add clusterfuck in connected rectangular rooms
    Home - add clusterfuck in small rooms

    OP's definition of circular / room is legit hilarious though.

  15. #55
    Deleted
    ........... at least "WoW is dying" and "Legion suck" threads go straigth to the point (a bad point).

  16. #56
    Bloodsail Admiral Allenseiei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coprax View Post
    No, in the mythic video (havent played it myself) I just see three bosses pulled on top of each other and nuked. This is not a council-fight definition for me.

    I mean like High King Maulgar style. Each boss must be handled differently, and be tanked in different corners of the room. AND requiring more than 2 tanks, maybe a caster-tank as well.
    Its a kill order where bosses heal after you kill one, all HC abilities are there all fight and the fight changes after each boss dies(after a boss dies they combine skills, for example phase 2 killing orbs brings out plants, and phase 3 tank debuffs create the purple expanding shit and the debuff which casters had to cuddle creates the solar yellow stuff to come from them).
    It's still a council fight, just that u have to manage the bosses together instead of seperately. They are kept together mostly to make tank switching faster. Would adding some sort of effect to make them tanked separately make the fight change? Not really, only that the tanks would have to do very fast tank switching or they die.

  17. #57
    Deleted
    Circles are easier to balance

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Chronomatic anomaly: add cluster$%!* in a circular room
    Trilliax: add cluster$%!* in a circular room
    Elisande: add cluster$%!* in a circular room
    Gul'dan: add cluster$%!* in a circular room
    Chronomatic has only one add and then 4 small ones, for a tiny portion of the fight. Its atually a single-target fight 90% of the time. And the room is big. the encounter area is virtually not restricted. You could put him into FL instead of Shannox and the fight would still be essentially the same...
    Same for trilliax. Pure single target fight, doing DPS on scrubber is only done for padding the meters.
    Guldan only has adds in p1, unless you count eyes in p2/p3.

    Btw, round rooms are a important part of highborne/nightborne architecture.

    So, you are down to 5/10 bosses which have significant adds, which is pretty much in line with other raids.

    Flame Leviathan also had adds when the flower tower was up. So, its was also addcleave, but in a square area. And you had to shot down fuel anyways...

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    it wasent that it was dificult, it was that alot of people HATED having to learn new abilities, and do something that they dont have at all times (look at guldan, most of the time people forget to use those abilities, and it took us till reaching heroic guldan for me to finally be able to get through to our healers heads that its 1 million total, not 1 million per person for the healing shield)
    Well, the ICC battle you had 3 skills... 2 with the cannons and 1 with the rocket jump, and most people didn't even need to use them though.
    Flame Leviathan was a bit more complex, but each role had 2 skills or 1. I spent most of my fights in that boss in hard mode just spamming 1 and hooking saronite... Maybe they hated it because you couldn't rank was also involved? I don't think learning how to spam 2-3 buttons at best is "learning new abilities", but hey could happen.
    I still think its like I said, the vast mayority of players simply don't understand how they worked and hated it for it.

  20. #60
    OP is a troll, I thought his choice of language made this evident. So please let's stop feeding him.

    Thx to Isilrien for the awesome sig

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