Lack of class diversity is why so few people want to play RDPS

[Sentynel]

Unholy dk should definitely have been ranged. That would have given plate int gear that was solely reserved for pally at the time, another possible use. It also works better with warcraft 2 lore and the original dk units being casters.

WOTLK Death Knights are raised to serve Arthas. Not Gul'dan.

[PraisCthulhu]

Or you can create another toon. It's not a big deal you know

Most people do not keep their alts as geared as their mains. It is easier to maintain a second set of gear for an off spec than it is to maintain an entire second character. I mean, I have 3 110s and 3 more characters on their way to 110, but an alt isn't as easy as an off spec. When my guild needed me to heal and I switched from my DK to my Shaman as a main, my play time and relative gearing on my DK dropped and my play time and relative gearing on my Shaman went up.

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Back to the '4th spec for all classes' debate :-). It would put a lot of variation back in the game after all the pruning and it would also be a nice replacement for the artifact system next expansion.

It doesn't even have to be a 4th spec. When DH came out with only 2 specs, they out and out said that they didn't feel they could make a meaningful 3rd spec without taking things from the other two (specific examples were glaive toss and eye beam, which would have been exclusive to a ranged spec had they made one). So take that 3rd spec on a couple of classes and turn it into a tank or a healer, or give a class one of each and leave just 1 DPS spec. You can really see this with Warlocks where there clearly weren't enough ideas for 3 specs when they reworked Demo and we ended up with 2 DoT based specs, one with mostly instant casts (aff) and one with mostly hard casts (Demo).

The only class I feel there is a clear cut case where a 4th spec is valid is Shaman because they are meant to draw upon the elements. There are 4 main elements. They currently have 3 specs, each of which focuses on a different element for its main source of power (though all 3 still use all four elements). So, give Earth a spec too.

[satimy]

Classes have fake diversity now with spell effects but are all virtually the same. MoP was the last expansion with any sense of class identity

[Jastall]

No, the reasons are that 1) melee was made more fun this xpack for most specs, and 2) Nighthold and EN are melee-friendly raids, after we had entire xpacks of ranged-friendly raids.

Spice the above up with the influx of Demon Hunters, and this is why you actually have a melee and ranged DPS parity in logs, whereas in previous tiers raiding was absolutely dominated by ranged.

[darklogrus]

Giving the ranged spec a different role wont automatically mean more tanks and healers, it will probably mean less of that class all together.

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No, the reasons are that 1) melee was made more fun this xpack for most specs, and 2) Nighthold and EN are melee-friendly raids, after we had entire xpacks of ranged-friendly raids.

Spice the above up with the influx of Demon Hunters, and this is why you actually have a melee and ranged DPS parity in logs, whereas in previous tiers raiding was absolutely dominated by ranged.

Playing a Ranged class in NH sucks, it seems to always be so ranged focus on ever boss.

[Jastall]

Playing a Ranged class in NH sucks, it seems to always be so ranged focus on ever boss.

Blizzard probably swung the pendulum too far in the other direction, as is their custom. But after Gorefiend, Xhul, Tyrant and a few others, it's kind of refreshing to not fight one boss in Nighthold that seemed specifically designed to fuck melee over, eh.

[sponge5307]

For me melee with a tank spec is a lot easier to do WQ and get gear early on. I can take on mobs and mobs. As a range it takes ages to do WQ and also you take a lot of damage if you made a wrong pull.

in M+ and raids there are a lot of movement and having a cast time sucks. As a melee I can move very quickly and it doesn't impact my dps much.

[Deleted]

wotlk death knights are raised to serve arthas. Not gul'dan.

details!!!

[darklogrus]

Blizzard probably swung the pendulum too far in the other direction, as is their custom. But after Gorefiend, Xhul, Tyrant and a few others, it's kind of refreshing to not fight one boss in Nighthold that seemed specifically designed to fuck melee over, eh.

I played both a ranged and a melee in HFC and I never once felt the fights were as lopsided as they are in NH.

[Isoge]

While not having read all the previous pages, here is my take on why there is a lack of rdps.

While ranged dps is so fun, blizz has basically cucked all form of caster ranged dps on most of the most fun of fights in nighthold, which is the single target D measuring fights (totally only my opinion but I am sure I am not alone in sharing this opinion since it is my opinion that AoE fights are pure garbage for any sort of D measuring) . On Trilliax, it is mostly ranged that have to run to the far back to eat cakes making them lose a bunch of dps. It is also the caster ranged that hurt the most from moving away from crap on the ground since they have to stop casting in order to move away. And don't get me started on annihilation for a caster ranged.

On Krosus, it is ranged that primarily soaks in the far back only to run to the front again. It is also ranged that has to run away with the orb since they are the only ones targeted. And also here, ranged has to stop casting in order to move away from the beams.

On tichondrius, ranged has to move into groups with the circles to break them, and has to stop casting while doing this. And it is also ranged that is hurt the most when moving into position with the plague since they yet again stop casting to move into position and move back.

On elisande, while melee are still able to hit the boss during the rings and move, casters have to run constantly and not being able to get a spell cast during these times. It is also (mostly, not always) ranged that are on orb soaking duty since they are so far away and have a better reach to the orbs.

On botanist, it is ranged duty to kill off far off orbs and stack on people with debuffs, running away with debuffs, stop casting while running away from adds that are chasing you, add dps duty since you will be the only one able to reach the adds instantly while melee are a lot slower to get to adds and they are killed by ranged by the time they get to the adds.

And there are more mechanics other than the ones I have listed that are annoying the hell out of ranged dps.

While, for most of these fights, melee are on the easy streak being able to tank and spank the bosses. Rogues especially have a good time during these fights since our ST damage is so high so we are basically excused from most of the mechanics on some of the fights.
I think that these extra annoyances has caused many ranged dps to reconsider their choice in classes/specs.

But these are purely my own thoughts and speculations of course. At least I know I would get really pissed off if melee could slack on every boss fight while ranged had to do all sorts of shitty mechanics or we wipe and ranged gets the blame. Just having that extra responsibility on so many of the fights makes playing ranged dps not so lucrative to say the least, and that is the real reason why so few play them. Not because of class diversity.

[Sansnom]

Who is talking about queue times? WTF? Are you literally unable to read and comprehend what other people post?

I begin to understand why it is so hard for some people to even play this game without tripping over their own feet...

Have YOU tried reading and understanding what people post?

The issue is not about queue time. The queue time was merely mentioned as an indicator.

The presumption is that people prefer to play melee because it offers more option to spec into other roles, tank and healing. While range can offer heal, and only class offers that.

If people were interested in exercising their option to play other roles, then the queue time should reflect that. Particular looking tanks. The queue time has not changed since three new tanking class were introduced. There is still a shortage of tank.

So the presumption that offering a range tanking class would increase the number of range class is rather weak because tanking is not something that would attract people to a class.

[Alvito]

More people are playing melee because they do more dmg, in NH deal with far less mechanics and in all cases except rogues are a hybrid spec so they have multiple options if they tire of melee dps.

[Krekal]

Still waiting for DUAL SHIELD SHAMAN TANK

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

It is if you disagree with something he has not even touched on.


The fact only one class that can tank offers a ranged spec and only 2 of the healers offer a ranged spec maybe leading to hybrid players having to play more melee classes and leading to less potential rDPS plaers than if ranged specs would be spread out a bit more is not compelling? Okay, why?


What. Are. You. Even.Arguing.About.

Who is talking about queue times? WTF? Are you literally unable to read and comprehend what other people post?

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THERE BEING (TOO) FEW rDPS

I begin to understand why it is so hard for some people to even play this game without tripping over their own feet...

Nope, I disagree with his whole problem. He hasn't shown that its actually a real issue. Anyone can make up a problem and then try to solve said problem.

"Hybrid players" isn't a classification of person.

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Have YOU tried reading and understanding what people post?

The issue is not about queue time. The queue time was merely mentioned as an indicator.

The presumption is that people prefer to play melee because it offers more option to spec into other roles, tank and healing. While range can offer heal, and only class offers that.

If people were interested in exercising their option to play other roles, then the queue time should reflect that. Particular looking tanks. The queue time has not changed since three new tanking class were introduced. There is still a shortage of tank.

So the presumption that offering a range tanking class would increase the number of range class is rather weak because tanking is not something that would attract people to a class.

Thank you for having a brain >.<

The OP invented a problem - while surely SOME people switch their mains to melee, I'm not seeing some massive ranged disparity here. Ranged used to overshadow melee, and with raids being more friendly to melee, I'd say thats a reason some people switched, along with DHs being popular too.

[dabanks07]

I'm so frustrated trying to even read through this thread. What the OP is stating is true and yet everyone wants to try and make arguments that have nothing to do with what he said. If you want to rDPS and tank or heal you have a whopping 3 specs (Balance, Shadow, or Elemental) to choose from. Compare that to mDPS who can choose between 9 DPS specs (Frost, Unholy, Havoc, Feral, Windwalker, Retribution, Enhancement, Fury, and Arms) and still fill another another role. I can't give you any kind of number or stat to quantify just how many people would like the opportunity to play a rDPS but simply feel that it is too restricting but I can tell you that it does happen as I was one of them.

[Deleted]

1. There is no lack of class diversity ... all classes are played within cooee of where they are meant to be.
2. The lack of tanks/healers is a mathematical artefact causes by two other aspects of the game - healers are hard to play solo (levelling) and the tank/healer/dps ratio of 5 mans is out of whack with that of other group content (LFR/Raids etc)
3. Melee class representation is heavily biased by the fact that the two hero classes are both melee.
4. Melee classes will of course have fewer pure dps, because by definition a tank has to be melee where as a healer doesn't. It takes a fair bit of wrangling to integrate a RDPS spec into a tank class (balance druid anyone).

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Well, maybe you wore yourself out playing most classes and specs to max level raiding.... but I can tell you, I'm loving my Arcane Mage as average as it is.

Maybe you should focus on one class/spec to and on one you enjoy

wrong check mythic guldan as example. there is a hugh difference between frost dk, fury warri, dh , assa rogue and every other melee. like 60 parses on each other melee... thats pathetic

[SirBeef]

I've been seeing this talked about a bit. To me, there is one main reason RDPS is less played than melee and it also plays into why there is a shortage of tanks and healers in group finder as well.

Melee have 12 specs to choose from spread over 9 classes. Of those, only 4 specs are on a pure DPS class (3 rogue specs plus Survival hunter). That means 75% of melee specs and ~80% of melee DPS classes can either tank, heal, or both in addition to doing DPS. If you want to melee dps and tank, you can play Druid, Death Knight, Monk, Paladin, Warrior, or Demon Hunter. If you want to do Melee DPS and heal, you can play Druid, Paladin, Shaman, or Monk.

Range have 11 specs spread over just 6 classes. Of those, 3 of the classes, making up 8 of the 11 specs, are pure DPS classes. Hunters (2 specs), Mages (3 specs), and Warlock (3 specs) can *only* DPS. This means 72% of RDPS specs and 50% of RDPS classes have absolutely no role diversity. If you want to RDPS and tank you have to play a Druid. If you want to RDPS and heal, you are a Shaman, Priest, or Druid.

The basic issue is that playing melee DPS gives you *much* more flexibility to off spec as a different role. If Blizz really wants to help address the imbalance of melee vs range and the shortage of tanks and healers when forming groups, they need to address the extreme lack of RDPS specs with tank or heal off specs. This goes beyond just adding a new class next expac that can RDPS, heal, and tank. We really need more of the current classes with RDPS specs to gain the ability to heal and/or tank.

I don't play ranged becasue I don't like being away from the action, channeling, and casts that are not instant. There could be one ranged class and it could perform 200% better than any melee, and I would still roll melee for those reasons I stated.

[Marrilaife]

I am on the old school way of things anyway. My opinion the pure dps classes Hunter, Rogue, Mage and Warlock. Should do atleast 20% more dps than a class with either tank/heal spec just because dps is all they bring to a group.

Why not go further and just delete dps specs from all the "tank" and "healer" classes? Since their dps specs will be useless anyway, better they don't exist and don't lure newbies into a trap they can play a ret or a boomkin.

Legion went to extra lengths anyway to kill offspecs. A character is a spec now, not a class. Either you're mage or druid, switching to another spec is either double the grind or half the usefulness.

[Sansnom]

I am on the old school way of things anyway. My opinion the pure dps classes Hunter, Rogue, Mage and Warlock. Should do atleast 20% more dps than a class with either tank/heal spec just because dps is all they bring to a group.

I really like to hear your reasoning for this.

Would you expect a Retribution Paladin to bring 100% DPS to the group? Would expect the Retribution Paladin to "tank" in a group? Would you expect a Retribution Paladin to "heal" in a group?

Think about it. If the Retribution Paladin is healing or tanking, they are not doing damage. Their DPS drops to almost 0. And since they are not in the correct spec, their tanking or healing is no way near anything close to what they should be doing in those off spec role.

Then why should they be penalized with a reduction to their active spec?

[Aleax]

I am on the old school way of things anyway. My opinion the pure dps classes Hunter, Rogue, Mage and Warlock. Should do atleast 20% more dps than a class with either tank/heal spec just because dps is all they bring to a group.

I really like to hear your reasoning for this.

Would you expect a Retribution Paladin to bring 100% DPS to the group? Would expect the Retribution Paladin to "tank" in a group? Would you expect a Retribution Paladin to "heal" in a group?

Think about it. If the Retribution Paladin is healing or tanking, they are not doing damage. Their DPS drops to almost 0. And since they are not in the correct spec, their tanking or healing is no way near anything close to what they should be doing in those off spec role.

Then why should they be penalized with a reduction to their active spec?

Because "pure" dps class should win the game and not the "hybrids".. I also don't see the reasoning behind so I guess.....sorry about that^^

Besides, everybody love to have tanks and healers in their groups, so we can dps to our fulfill. Imo tanking and healing are ungrateful spe enough to an extend, so let's not shoot the classes that can fulfill them, shall we?

"Pure" dps should provide 3 alternative gameplays, even if their role is still dps; that's what they offer now, so it's all dandy..
Blizzard killed the unfair advantage of being a "pure" class a long time ago,...good that let's not come back to this.