Over 2000 guilds stuck at 3/10 mythic, was tuning 7 bosses to 54 traits a mistake?

[kamuimac]

This is the real problem with mythic raids atm:

yes you are right

burned out raiders whining like 3 year olds instead take a few weeks break are indeed huge problem in game atm.

to ocmbat it blizzard shoudl rmeove mythic to save those addicts from them ocd/addiction its the logical way to solve their problems

[Osmeric]

It isn't? So I guess wowprogress showing almost 5000 guilds at 3/10 and higher is some kind of a hoax?

Those are mostly stuck at 3/10. Haven't you been reading this thread?

[Deleted]

I'm sorry that current NH mythic is and prenerf ToV mythic was "way too difficult" for you. Mythic difficulty is not designed to be cleared by everyone. THere are thousands of guilds progressing it and some of them will finish before next tier. All is fine.

It is too difficult for the rewards it gives, yes. The loot has to proc WF or TF, otherwise it just doesnt feel good to receive because players are mostly around the same item level already when they down the bosses.

Is that normal for you? It has never been like that before.

[stevenho]

Those are mostly stuck at 3/10. Haven't you been reading this thread?

An what exactly this has to do with me saying

THere are thousands of guilds progressing it and some of them will finish before next tier. All is fine.

They all stopped progressing on Krossus/Botanist?

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It is too difficult for the rewards it gives, yes. The loot has to proc WF or TF, otherwise it just doesnt feel good to receive because players are mostly around the same item level already when they down the bosses.

Is that normal for you? It has never been like that before.

I'm sorry, this is a different topic - effort vs reward.
My post was about whether the bosses are "too hard", which they clearly are not seeing thousands of guilds progressing mythic content weekly.

[Osmeric]

An what exactly this has to do with me saying

It has to do with you claiming "thousands". The next boss downed boss after Trilliax, Krosus, has 1904 guilds that have downed it.

Moreover, I would claim that guilds going even 5/10 aren't the audience for Mythic. A guild that gets stuck like that in Mythic content is probably going to stop trying.

The actual, sustainable audience for Mythic tuned at the level of current M NH is absurdly small, so small that it's crazy for Blizzard to do this. If they got every last guild that had a real shot of clearing M NH at this level to quit, but made the ones that you are snidely turning your nose up at happier, they would come out ahead.

[stevenho]

Not sure where your problem with comprehending "THere are thousands of guilds progressing" lies.

Thousands of guilds are progressing mythic every week. It is very well tuned to be challenging, and not all those thousands will finish before next tier. Get better instead of whining on internet forums, or accept that you are not good enough to finish.

[kamuimac]

Moreover, I would claim that guilds going even 5/10 aren't the audience for Mythic.

this forums is slowly but surely hiting its all time low -_-

guilds that are in 50 % of mythic and in top 2k arent audience for mythic -_-

i bet you will also claim that they shouldnt be called mythic raiders eh ?

[Deja Thoris]

this forums is slowly but surely hiting its all time low -_-

guilds that are in 50 % of mythic and in top 2k arent audience for mythic -_-

i bet you will also claim that they shouldnt be called mythic raiders eh ?

Yes, they are part of the audience for mythic. I look forward to your next 7 posts why you slowly try to articulate why they are not.

[Socialhealer]

Not to mention it doesnt really even give a reward. Most people who can kill these bosses already have better gear from mythic+ and titanforges from heroic mode.

THIS is the issue with mythic currently with titanforging and mythic+ TF, 905 loot isn't worth the effort with the difficulty of the last 7/10 NH bosses, this loot should be 915-925, or be able to break the 925 cap as well, this is why mythic raiding is in decline reward for time sink is too low, blizz have to step up or watch less and less raid mythic.

[Osmeric]

this forums is slowly but surely hiting its all time low -_-

guilds that are in 50 % of mythic and in top 2k arent audience for mythic -_-

i bet you will also claim that they shouldnt be called mythic raiders eh ?

I define "the audience" to be "the set of players who are satisfied by the content and for whom the presence of the content contributes to their continued play".

While I am sure there are some players who end up 5/10M who would be happy with that, I think most would be more frustrated than satisfied.

[Krazzorx]

I think people are overestating a bit about how little gear upgrades you get now compared to previous raids. Particularly in regards to the later bosses in the raids taking multiple resets to get. That was even Blizzard's reasoning for introducing the variable ilvl in HFC. First kills of the later and end bosses you'd DE 1/2 the loot anyways.

I'd venture to say at this point in the tier, the only difference between power gains still available between NH and say, HFC or ToT is that Titanforging exists.

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I define "the audience" to be "the set of players who are satisfied by the content and for whom the presence of the content contributes to their continued play".

While I am sure there are some players who end up 5/10M who would be happy with that, I think most would be more frustrated than satisfied.

Historically, very few guilds who kill a single mythic or former heroic boss actually kill the final boss on mythic. For that matter, same probably applies to the other difficulties. (Particularly current heroic).

I'd say it's hard to judge how many people are content with their progress in a sweeping statement. One way or the other.

[Sarevokcz]

I think people are overestating a bit about how little gear upgrades you get now compared to previous raids. Particularly in regards to the later bosses in the raids taking multiple resets to get. That was even Blizzard's reasoning for introducing the variable ilvl in HFC. First kills of the later and end bosses you'd DE 1/2 the loot anyways.

I'd venture to say at this point in the tier, the only difference between power gains still available between NH and say, HFC or ToT is that Titanforging exists.

umm, isnt that exactly the point? titanforging exists > bosses are tuned around that extra ilevel from gear > mythic drops, especially from the first three bosses are trash, because people already have same ilevel items from lower content > you will take alot more time outgearing content, when mythic gear is, at best, marginal upgrade to gear needed to kill the bosses, unlike in previous god knows how many tiers.

[Deleted]

umm, isnt that exactly the point? titanforging exists > bosses are tuned around that extra ilevel from gear > mythic drops, especially from the first three bosses are trash, because people already have same ilevel items from lower content > you will take alot more time outgearing content, when mythic gear is, at best, marginal upgrade to gear needed to kill the bosses, unlike in previous god knows how many tiers.

Nearly all of the top1000 guilds have enough power number-wise (gear/trait combination) to clear the whole raid on mythic. Its usually a L2P issue, but the whole trait/gear system makes it pretty easy to find excuses. More gear and more traits wouldn't help to overcome the last 6 bosses (after krosus) if the raid group doesn't have any talent in strategy execution. You can try a boss over several weeks and maybe your raid is becoming better in strategy execution or not, but the gear increasment over the time takes nearly no proportion on it. The same procedure over all the progress phases in the past - there is no way to success without learning a new boss / getting better / training / wiping. Gear (and traits in legion) has not the power to make a bad player become better.

[Morrigenn]

I am always amused by threads like this that exist alongside other threads crying (just as earnestly) how the game is "too easy" and WoW has been dumbed down for the LFR crowd and the devs should go back to making raids "hard" for the serious players, like in Vanilla.

The juxtaposition is always fascinating....

[Sarevokcz]

Nearly all of the top1000 guilds have enough power number-wise (gear/trait combination) to clear the whole raid on mythic. Its usually a L2P issue, but the whole trait/gear system makes it pretty easy to find excuses. More gear and more traits wouldn't help to overcome the last 6 bosses (after krosus) if the raid group doesn't have any talent in strategy execution. You can try a boss over several weeks and maybe your raid is becoming better in strategy execution or not, but the gear increasment over the time takes nearly no proportion on it. The same procedure over all the progress phases in the past - there is no way to success without learning a new boss / getting better / training / wiping. Gear (and traits in legion) has not the power to make a bad player become better.

yeaah, nearly 1000 can kill guldan, yet only 54 managed to do so, after 2 months of NH? help me out here with your math pls.

there is also the fact, that those almost 1000 guilds dont have the luxury to swap to ideal setup on each boss. if guild managed to kill a boss after hundreds of wipes with 902 and HEAVY class stacking and as good execution as people can achieve, what chance does your average 902 guild have, when they cannot stack or play specs they dont have 54 traits for? getting those extra few ilevels after a couple of weeks, they can overcome the inherent setup issues, its not going to make them kill the boss, unless they play at the other guilds level and getting those extra extra few ilevels is even harder than before.

And yes, overpowering with gear was a common way to get more mythic kills and even now, if gear was powerful enough, you could overpower some bosses, like you could afford losing one or two people to solars on botanist, to random add damage or orb/slam combo on krosus or in bat phase on tich etc. Yes, obviously you cant overpower all mechanics, like grand conjunction, but you could have easier time reaching third phase with ejections only twice etc. right now, the achievable ilevels simply arent there.

[satimy]

Nighthold mythic is overtuned. It needed a stacking 5% nerf every 2 weeks like previous tiers had

[Danvash]

My guild had like 5 people at 54 traits, and we had several 1-3% wipes on Krosus before people just stopped showing up to raid. I think it's doable with less than max everything, but you have to be persistent and get a pull where you execute the fight perfectly. As long as everyone does 600k dps and survives until the end, you can beat him. You do need a lot of gear to do 600k, but the extra traits are not required. They just make things easier.

[Deleted]

new traits in 7.2 will make NH = Nerfed!

[Deleted]

new traits in 7.2 will make NH = Nerfed!

Yeah, I guess it was planned all along.
This kind of helps offset the Titanforging fiasco.

But still doesn´t make default loot from Mythic NH desirable. Without TF you just feel unlucky and usually dont get an upgrade.

[styil]

It's actually almost 3,000 now. 2,800 and rising.