Returning casual mage

[Stened91]

Hi, i am a returning player and have been looking onto a ranged caster. I have been looking into mage as is kinda set in stone that you have to try mage. I like all specs they have. I wil be raiding on normal and heroic in casual mode. Any specs that are generaly better in casual mode?(like rogues, assassin is way better than sub when you are casual) What spec is more forgiving? What spec has most space to grow as a mage? Am i better out with a ele shaman? (i hear they are ok+ and easy for casuals)

[rogoth]

fire is pretty much the best spec to play as a universal "good in most situations" spec, arcane is very very gear dependant to play properly and frost has the same issue but is a more fiddly spec to play and for the content you plan to play you should have no real issues as a fire mage.

[Deleted]

fire is pretty much the best spec to play as a universal "good in most situations" spec, arcane is very very gear dependant to play properly and frost has the same issue but is a more fiddly spec to play and for the content you plan to play you should have no real issues as a fire mage.

I am sorry but universal "good in most situations" spec is arcane not fire Fire is only good for fights with huge AoE IF u have bis legendaries. Without them fire is just horrible. Where Arcane is good on AoE and ST fights even without legendaries.

@OP
I think arcane would be the best for you. Normal / HC fights are short, and Arc has the best burst from all mage specs. Moreover, Arcane is the least legendary depended spec so if u like the theme of it go for it. In other case i would go for Frost mage. Fire is just not a good pick atm if u are casual

[Deleted]

Haha, love when you get advice that are 100% different

I would like to say, I tried to play frostmage with shit gear - and ofc its possible if you do LFR/normal etc, but I've learned that while it can do some good numbers on ST, it really needs great gear and legendaries to skyrocket (and it really will, the BiS legendaries make frost borderline OP (compared to other ranges specs for ST)). Also frost is quite gimmicky right now with double ice lance procs etc, which is hard-ish to pull off unless you have great gear.

Since im also casual player I switched to arcane and I really enjoy it more than frost since i can predictable produce good numbers without being proc/RNG dependent like frost can be. And it blows frost out of the water in AOE for lower mythic+. And I can do this without legendaries - ofc my dps will go up with legs, but it wont skyrocket like with frost.

I _hate_ how fire plays atm, so I cant say anything about it, but what ^ this guy says seems to be the general consensus on fire.

[Niwes]

so now op has 2 totally opposite statements. yeah.

[Stened91]

so now op has 2 totally opposite statements. yeah.

And i like it, now i can see how people actualy feel about these specs and get more opinions. I see on Warcraft logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

That frost is better than arcane and fire by a good margin on 75% percentile. If you increase the percentile the damage on the frost goes up and the fire and arcane is not as much. I use this indication to see how much a spec can "grow". So this support no one of you guy`s statements as it shows that even on low gear/difficulty frost is best.. but then again, it can be a reason for that. I want to get this thread going to get more opinions, info and thoughts. Please share!

[Deleted]

And i like it, now i can see how people actualy feel about these specs and get more opinions. I see on Warcraft logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

That frost is better than arcane and fire by a good margin on 75% percentile. If you increase the percentile the damage on the frost goes up and the fire and arcane is not as much. I use this indication to see how much a spec can "grow". So this support no one of you guy`s statements as it shows that even on low gear/difficulty frost is best.. but then again, it can be a reason for that. I want to get this thread going to get more opinions, info and thoughts. Please share!

You never check how a build is doing over all bosses combined. Not unless you want answers you cant use for a single thing. Check each boss individually.

[Niwes]

And i like it, now i can see how people actualy feel about these specs and get more opinions. I see on Warcraft logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

That frost is better than arcane and fire by a good margin on 75% percentile. If you increase the percentile the damage on the frost goes up and the fire and arcane is not as much. I use this indication to see how much a spec can "grow". So this support no one of you guy`s statements as it shows that even on low gear/difficulty frost is best.. but then again, it can be a reason for that. I want to get this thread going to get more opinions, info and thoughts. Please share!

2 things:

1)
i would not expect that differentiated and deep, well-thought oppinions on mmoc i wait for the obvious "if you just play normal/HC spec dont matter" statement

2)
dont forget that specs are relatively close togehter this xpac (and even more this tier), so the fact "how good you can play fire/frost/arcane?" matters even more. if 1 spec is YOUR spec, and you can perform it like hell, this will instant close the natural dps gaps between the the 3 specs. same goes for "you cant be very good at a spec you dont like". so, my advise is: analyze a lot, but test a lot more. play what "flows into your fingers" and what you like. and you will perform better than spec xyz, even when this spec have more space to grow.

oh, and think about your playground: you dont play mythics. and maybe play pugs. so you have

- a lot of randoms
- a lot of stupids
- way more short living adds than long living (important difference berween many specs)
- not straight moments of raid lead yells "now xyz"
- more "play for your own" than "play for the group"
- no time-ahead planing like in guild that do every encounter exact the same
- and so on

[Stened91]

2 things:

1)
i would not expect that differentiated and deep, well-thought oppinions on mmoc i wait for the obvious "if you just play normal/HC spec dont matter" statement

2)
dont forget that specs are relatively close togehter this xpac (and even more this tier), so the fact "how good you can play fire/frost/arcane?" matters even more. if 1 spec is YOUR spec, and you can perform it like hell, this will instant close the natural dps gaps between the the 3 specs. same goes for "you cant be very good at a spec you dont like". so, my advise is: analyze a lot, but test a lot more. play what "flows into your fingers" and what you like. and you will perform better than spec xyz, even when this spec have more space to grow.

Good answer.. one of the best i have seen for a while. True that.. so my last question. You see i LOVE lightning and thunder and i see elemental shaman is doing "ok". Is it really a "noob" class as they say?

[Deleted]

Good answer.. one of the best i have seen for a while. True that.. so my last question. You see i LOVE lightning and thunder and i see elemental shaman is doing "ok". Is it really a "noob" class as they say?

My main is elemental shaman and it's great. It's easy to pick up and play but there are plenty of nuances and optimisations to be made if you want to maximise your performance as well as a really interesting talent tree that you will regularly change from fight to fight which adds some depth. In terms of amount of buttons to press in your normal dps rotation it's on the high end which makes it quite fun. Personally I think it's really well designed. I don't really see how it can be called a noob spec since from my experience and observation there's more depth and variation in elemental than any of the individual mage specs which is my alt, of course mage has 3 specs so if you're intending to play all 3 then you'll find more there.

The downsides are you're more at the mercy of tuning since you only have 1 spec and can't readily jump ship to resto and enhancement since they fill different roles. Based on history you've got to be prepared to be in a bad spot. Another potential down side is it's a monster in aoe and mythic+ but is lacking a bit in pure single target, Nighthold is quite favourable to elemental but even then the last 3 bosses aren't very good for it which is why it's not seen a lot in high end progression guilds. But if you're just planning to raid normal and heroic you'll be able to compete and pull your weight even in pure single target so I wouldn't worry about that.

[Stened91]

My main is elemental shaman and it's great. It's easy to pick up and play but there are plenty of nuances and optimisations to be made if you want to maximise your performance as well as a really interesting talent tree that you will regularly change from fight to fight which adds some depth. In terms of amount of buttons to press in your normal dps rotation it's on the high end which makes it quite fun. Personally I think it's really well designed. I don't really see how it can be called a noob spec since from my experience and observation there's more depth and variation in elemental than any of the individual mage specs which is my alt, of course mage has 3 specs so if you're intending to play all 3 then you'll find more there.

The downsides are you're more at the mercy of tuning since you only have 1 spec and can't readily jump ship to resto and enhancement since they fill different roles. Based on history you've got to be prepared to be in a bad spot. Another potential down side is it's a monster in aoe and mythic+ but is lacking a bit in pure single target, Nighthold is quite favourable to elemental but even then the last 3 bosses aren't very good for it which is why it's not seen a lot in high end progression guilds. But if you're just planning to raid normal and heroic you'll be able to compete and pull your weight even in pure single target so I wouldn't worry about that.

Thank you, i am making a shaman. I miss yelling "ultimate power" when i do chain lightning

[Tikishock]

fire is pretty much the best spec to play as a universal "good in most situations" spec, arcane is very very gear dependant to play properly and frost has the same issue but is a more fiddly spec to play and for the content you plan to play you should have no real issues as a fire mage.

From what I've read on forums Fire is legendary dependent and is mostly only good in AoE and mythic+ dungeons. Arcane seems to be the jack of all trades type spec that is good at ST and AoE. Frost is strongest at single target and I think cleave fights. Arcane and frost from what I hear aren't as legendary dependent as Fire is.

To the OP--my suggestion would be to go Arcane or Frost depending on which rotation you enjoy more. I like Arcane so that's what I am on my alt mage. It's a fun playstyle for me--especially since I main the most boring spec of all casters in Affliction Warlock.

[Greeneye7]

I second this as a frost main, just pick what you like between arcane and frost, legendaries arent needed for either spec to succeed, and both have their own charm, only thing is frost can be rough in mass aoe, but it works for most fights.

[Deleted]

Frost is super cool. Really fits my class fantasy. Try it out

[rogoth]

From what I've read on forums Fire is legendary dependent and is mostly only good in AoE and mythic+ dungeons. Arcane seems to be the jack of all trades type spec that is good at ST and AoE. Frost is strongest at single target and I think cleave fights. Arcane and frost from what I hear aren't as legendary dependent as Fire is.

To the OP--my suggestion would be to go Arcane or Frost depending on which rotation you enjoy more. I like Arcane so that's what I am on my alt mage. It's a fun playstyle for me--especially since I main the most boring spec of all casters in Affliction Warlock.

for the level of content the OP wants to tackle fire is perfectly fine regardless of legendary items acquired, it's only when you get into the upper end of the game that it starts to have an effect.

[Fuze]

Just go frost tbh and spend some into fire for fights like ticho/skorp. Fire single target is so bad right now that even with legendary percentiles on warcraftlogs other classes are above me by a lot lol

[Jersh]

Thank you, i am making a shaman. I miss yelling "ultimate power" when i do chain lightning

You won't be disappointed. Ele shaman is my main alt and it's a lot of fun. Plus you get to ride a fire elemental in 7-2.

[firejin]

Well with the new shields you could very well feel the same as frost or fire. I personally think fire is best for quick killing mobs because of the Pyro crit procs and combustion.

[Zardam]

2 things:

1)
i would not expect that differentiated and deep, well-thought oppinions on mmoc i wait for the obvious "if you just play normal/HC spec dont matter" statement

2)
dont forget that specs are relatively close togehter this xpac (and even more this tier), so the fact "how good you can play fire/frost/arcane?" matters even more. if 1 spec is YOUR spec, and you can perform it like hell, this will instant close the natural dps gaps between the the 3 specs. same goes for "you cant be very good at a spec you dont like". so, my advise is: analyze a lot, but test a lot more. play what "flows into your fingers" and what you like. and you will perform better than spec xyz, even when this spec have more space to grow.

oh, and think about your playground: you dont play mythics. and maybe play pugs. so you have

- a lot of randoms
- a lot of stupids
- way more short living adds than long living (important difference berween many specs)
- not straight moments of raid lead yells "now xyz"
- more "play for your own" than "play for the group"
- no time-ahead planing like in guild that do every encounter exact the same
- and so on

Specs are not "relatively" close together this xpac. At launch, more than 70% of mages were fire. Now frost is 15% or more ahead of fire/arc. And dps aren't even the worst balanced role. Something like 95% of all mythic NH logs have at least one guardian druid. Legion is many things, but balanced is not one of them.

I see a lot of people saying fire "is good for aoe and mythic +" but this is wrong. The only time fire does well if there are many (10+) targets, which comes down to 2 fights in NH (scrop, tich) and low level mythic + were you can zerg. For everything else, fire is one of the worst specs in the game. Blizz apparently nurfed it to the ground to try and foce players to reroll the other 2 specs, so it likely will be pretty bad for the rest of the xpac. Frost is doing well right now, and performs well in mythic + as well. Arc is still sub par, but will likely scale very well with gear.

[nocturnus]

Specs are not "relatively" close together this xpac. At launch, more than 70% of mages were fire. Now frost is 15% or more ahead of fire/arc. And dps aren't even the worst balanced role. Something like 95% of all mythic NH logs have at least one guardian druid. Legion is many things, but balanced is not one of them.

I see a lot of people saying fire "is good for aoe and mythic +" but this is wrong. The only time fire does well if there are many (10+) targets, which comes down to 2 fights in NH (scrop, tich) and low level mythic + were you can zerg. For everything else, fire is one of the worst specs in the game. Blizz apparently nurfed it to the ground to try and foce players to reroll the other 2 specs, so it likely will be pretty bad for the rest of the xpac. Frost is doing well right now, and performs well in mythic + as well. Arc is still sub par, but will likely scale very well with gear.

Whoa, they still didn't fix mages? I stopped playing wow when NH released and while I had no intention of coming back, I did think they would've fixed mages (especially fire) after seeing its performance in NH.

I guess Legion really is a melee xpac huh?