Blizzard have effectively gotten rid of flying

[bufferunderrun]

So let me get this straight.. Blizzard effectively gotten rid of flying.. by unlocking it in 7.2 which has a release contender on the PTR.

Most ineffective effectively effort I have ever seen in my life. Almost as if it was designed in this fashion... like.. it is exactly how they said it would be...

whoa...

go figure.

by unlocking it once you have completed 7.2 content atm we don't even know how much time it take to complete it and then we don't know how 7.3 argus work, my 2 cent is that it won't allow flying.
So even through it's technically implemented it is effectively downgraded to the "alt convenience" role.

[rda]

Can we eventually have a chat about this without someone telling other people to "open your eyes", "eventually realise", "one day you'll see" and all forms of laughable attempts at patronising bullshit?

I play the game since Vanilla. I have my eyes open. Provide an argument that is better than "you haven't seen it yet".

5 men are still relevant, never before this had happened. Usually they'd add NEW 5 man and the old ones would be obsolete. Raids are released often. Patches are released often. Reps have a bit more depth to it than in previous expansions thanks also to dungeon quests. Zones are way more detailed than in the past, especially interiors which are a pleasure.

There's more to do in terms of progression for a freshly dinged 110 that has ever been. World quests for reps and gearing up, shal aran chain which is a gem, 5 man into m+ which provides constantly challenging content, then step into raiding. Raiding which by the way is not confined to the latest tier only. I see mythic groups in EN coming up constantly (and failing miserably should I add, I repeat, failing miserably on a raid that's 2 tiers past its prime). Plus theres the random rng chance at legendary which makes everything, even an heroic dungeon in a way relevant at any time. I got a BiS legendary while helping a friend in an heroic. By the way, notice I haven't included pvp at all

We had many such discussions already, you can look them up using search. Want a new such discussion? Fine.

I am repeating for the third time - all the main features of Legion are taking a piece of content they'd do normally, like quests or instances or raids, and put twenty difficulty modes onto it. Plus sometimes gate it to the moon and back.

Your "more to do in terms of progression for a freshly dinged 110 that has ever been" is just several such grinds. Mythic+ is just a way of handing +ilvl using the same scenery. World quests are just a way of handing +ilvl using what was called dailies before. No new features. No new gameplay. Just two endless stairs with increasing numbers. Previously, we'd have had a new system like pet battles or achievements or transmog, or a new profession like archaeology. Or things like vehicles. Or flying, goddammit, they used to be adding features like flying (can anyone now imagine them adding something that interesting? yeah, me neither). All with new gameplay. Now instead of that we have a way of handing out incremental increases in stats for the same gameplay. Why? Because implementing the latter is much easier for the devs, that's why. You do some starter content and instead of doing more content, you just slap fifty levels of scaling and call it "instances are relevant again" and "you have more to do than ever before". That's Legion.

Guess what. The amount of work they spent making instances stay relevant is tiny. We previously had something like that with valor / WotLK emblems, but fine, if you like this current variation better, we could have had that - and in previous days we'd have that mythic+ with no fanfare at all, because it is a small amount of work for the devs, and we'd also get new content. But since these days they are plain incapable of delivering the amount of content they used to deliver before (because they are scaling down or changing the team for the third time, I don't know what is it, nor do I care), we have just that small bit of work with mythic+ and nothing else, they were out of their breath after doing it. And instead of asking "where's the rest", you and a few others are going with that stupid meme of "more content than ever" which is based on being just out of WoD more than on anything else. And don't humor yourself, you and others with that opinion are, indeed, few. The game is losing subs about as fast as WoD, and is quickly becoming not just a shell of a giant, but simply a small and irrelevant game. Where is it now - 4 million? Maybe less? Yeah. The release of the next expansion will likely be news of about the same scale as the release of the Warcraft movie: "have you heard?" - "they did a movie? meh, don't care" - "yeah, me neither". These devs have a real talent for flushing things down the drain...

And last - I am looking at this line of yours: "By the way, notice I haven't included pvp at all" and I practically beg you to "include" PVP. Let's talk about it, if you want. I have a lot to say, and the size of the ladder that reduced to 60% OF WHAT IT WAS AT THE END OF WoD has something to say, too. You know fuck all about PVP, it is completely clear from your "threat" of "including" it. Legion is a graveyard for PVP like no expansion was before.

[Deleted]

We had many such discussions already, you can look them up using search. Want a new such discussion? Fine.

I am repeating for the third time - all the main features of Legion are taking a piece of content they'd do normally, like quests or instances or raids, and put twenty difficulty modes onto it. Plus sometimes gate it to the moon and back.

Your "more to do in terms of progression for a freshly dinged 110 that has ever been" is just several such grinds. Mythic+ is just a way of handing +ilvl using the same scenery. World quests are just a way of handing +ilvl using what was called dailies before. No new features. No new gameplay. Just two endless stairs with increasing numbers. Previously, we'd have had a new system like pet battles or achievements or transmog, or a new profession like archaeology. All with new gameplay. Now instead of that we have a way of handing out incremental increases in stats for the same gameplay. Why? Because implementing the latter is much easier for the devs, that's why. You do some starter content and instead of doing more content, you just slap fifty levels of scaling and call it "instances are actual again" and "you have more to do than ever before". That's Legion.

I can obviously continue but this is enough for now. Your turn. Do you agree with what I am saying or not? If you don't agree, explain why. If you agree, well, you have it.

Of course I don't. World quests being "just dailies" is like calling a horse "just a big pony". Your views aren't objective. They're highly subjective. M+ is a new system of adapting 5 man to gear progression and it works. World quests and emissary are a new way to apply variety to daily quests and reps.
I don't care whether a system is new or not. Pet battles is a boutique feature we could have done without and you'd have missed nothing. M+ is an improvement of a system that is working like a charm.

You can look at a dogs dropping and appreciate it's shape and form. You can look at an ancient statue and think it's shit. These are personal views you're projecting in a discussion that to be frank, has no room for it.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

by unlocking it once you have completed 7.2 content atm we don't even know how much time it take to complete it and then we don't know how 7.3 argus work, my 2 cent is that it won't allow flying.
So even through it's technically implemented it is effectively downgraded to the "alt convenience" role.

If we don't know as you say than we cannot assume it is all over afterwards either. So we can confirm they have gotten rid of nothing. Well we can also confirm you will be negative to collaborate your story.

So technically you don't know what it is. Either do I. But that can only means one thing. No one knows. Which means we cannot say we have effectively gotten rid of anything. But I couldn't say that better than you of course.

[rda]

Of course I don't. World quests being "just dailies" is like calling a horse "just a big pony". Your views aren't objective. They're highly subjective. M+ is a new system of adapting 5 man to gear progression and it works. World quests and emissary are a new way to apply variety to daily quests and reps.
I don't care whether a system is new or not. Pet battles is a boutique feature we could have done without and you'd have missed nothing. M+ is an improvement of a system that is working like a charm.

You can look at a dogs dropping and appreciate it's shape and form. You can look at an ancient statue and think it's shit. These are personal views you're projecting in a discussion that to be frank, has no room for it.

I made a mistake of adding to the post instead of writing it all in one step. Sorry for doing that.

I expanded my post, read it now. It answers what you wrote.

We had things like mythic+ before plenty of times. If you like mythic+ better as a way of having instances be relevant, we could have that, no problems. The problem is that it is a small thing wrt dev effort and that previously we'd have had that plus new content, and now we have just that and no new content.

But read the whole thing. The last paragraph in particular:

And last - I am looking at this line of yours: "By the way, notice I haven't included pvp at all" and I practically beg you to "include" PVP. Let's talk about it, if you want. I have a lot to say, and the size of the ladder that reduced to 60% OF WHAT IT WAS AT THE END OF WoD has something to say, too. You know fuck all about PVP, it is completely clear from your "threat" of "including" it. Legion is a graveyard for PVP like no expansion was before.

[Deleted]

I made a mistake of adding to the post instead of writing it all in one step. Sorry for doing that.

I expanded my post, read it now. It answers what you wrote.

We had things like mythic+ before plenty of times. If you like mythic+ better as a way of having instances be relevant, we could have that, no problems. The problem is that it is a small thing wrt dev effort and that previously we'd have had that plus new content, and now we have just that and no new content.

But read the whole thing. The last paragraph in particular:

And last - I am looking at this line of yours: "By the way, notice I haven't included pvp at all" and I practically beg you to "include" PVP. Let's talk about it, if you want. I have a lot to say, and the size of the ladder that reduced to 60% OF WHAT IT WAS AT THE END OF WoD has something to say, too. You know fuck all about PVP, it is completely clear from your "threat" of "including" it. Legion is a graveyard for PVP like no expansion was before.

What, your job is to check how much developers do?
You will have a HARD time convincing anyone that doesn't have such a sickening love hate relationship with wow that legion is in any way "lazy" in its content. I know you can't see this cause you can't separate subjective and objective views in your head. We never had m+ before. We had something else. We didn't have m+. Are you ok?

By "I didn't include pvp" I meant "I didn't include pvp". I didn't mean any of that emotional outburst of yours.

[rda]

What, your job is to check how much developers do?
You will have a HARD time convincing anyone that doesn't have such a sickening love hate relationship with wow that legion is in any way "lazy" in its content. I know you can't see this cause you can't separate subjective and objective views in your head. We never had m+ before. We had something else. We didn't have m+. Are you ok?

By "I didn't include pvp" I meant "I didn't include pvp". I didn't mean any of that emotional outburst of yours.

I said that we had several other ways or instances staying relevant before and that these things don't take a lot of dev time, we could have had mythic+ if you want it so much, and while previously we'd also have new content with new gameplay, now we don't have new content with new gameplay and only have that mythic+.

And your response to this is - "We never had m+ before. We had something else. We didn't have m+. Are you ok?" ???

Gee, what a waste of time it was to reply to your posts.

It was wise of you to backtrack on PVP.

[Skalm]

They just need to do something like FFXIV has for flying.

Basically, if you finish the zone and get the achievement for it, flying should be enabled in that zone. That way they cant hide behind their 'we want you to experience the zone while questing'.

They just want to remove flying because it makes their jobs cheaper to do. If you cant fly, they don't have to finish the tops of mountains and crap. They can make the world smaller, because running on uneven ground gives the effect that the land is bigger. It is all about saving $$ and nothing else.

Also, NO flying = takes you longer to do everything = more months subbed.

[xanzul]

Second fallacy in a row. RPG? Do I need to list all RPG elements, that have been destroyed recently or you will understand, that your argument is very weak strawman attempt by yourself? For example. Do you personally use transmogs? M? Character boosts? How about scaled leveling? CRZ? Sharding? Mobs, respawning faster, than you kill them? PVP stat templates? Wow Tokens? How all this crap is being explained? Yeah... It's MAGIC!

And also. RPG - is exact kind of game, where it's YOU, who choose the way, you play the game. YOU choose destiny of your character. Whether he is Male of Female, Horde or Alliance, Orc or Human, Paladin or Rogue, good or bad, PVPer or PVEer, explorer or achiever, can or can't fly. If game is totally scripted and doesn't give you any choice, except playing according to some predefined scenario - then it's NOT RPG. It's ARCADE. It's freakin Super Mario, where you don't have any other choice, except going towards right side of screen and saving princess. Wow isn't MMORPG anymore - it's MMORNG with MOBA elements in best case.

Wow is a moba because you can't fly? What the actual fuck.


Seriously?

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Amnesia? It's standard "You want flying - you have to jump through all hops and if you don't want - you shouldn't play Wow, cuz you don't like it in a first place" argument, soused with "cuz it's RPG" addition.

Transmog is bad because it starts crossing the line of what "magic" should allow and what it shouldn't allow even in fantasy world. May be we should have spaceships? C'mon! It's magic! It devalues effort, developers put into designing gear. Gear has xpack and raid theme, cuz you take it from corpses of your enemies. If you want to have it's power - you should equip it, no matter if you like it's appearance or not. Football players should look like football players, no matter, if they personally like to look like rock stars or firefighters.

And this right here is why both Blizzard and rational pro-flyers are absolutely fed up with you flybabies spamming this nonsense.

Also weren't you just saying RPGs are about choice? Choice is a-ok if it means flying but players shouldn't have a choice in how their gear looks? Do you really not see how hypocritical this is?

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Never? We never had to pay 5000 gold for flying. It was 800-1000g. 5k was only for the faster speed.

Yeah ok. Keep on moving those goal posts. Maybe someday that will trick Blizzard into never restricting flight again.

[Varaben]

What was wrong with previous implementation, when Blizzard had dedicated no-flying locations, like Tol Barad? Other world was dead? Yeah, it was dead. But only because Blizzard didn't provide any new content beyond leveling. What we need - is one flying location and one no flying one with new content in every patch.

Bad thing about current Blizzard devs - they prefer "compromises", not creative solutions. Cuz compromise is, as Ghostcrawler have said, solution, that most likely won't satisfy both sides. Creative solution - is when you use some smart mechanic to satisfy both sides at once. All we know, is that according to Blizzard, they "tried" different solutions and nothing worked - so complete removal of flying is the only way to solve this problem. But something suggests me, that they haven't even tried.

For example, what they refuse to even try - to allow flying, but to use some dismounting mechanic in certain location, till all content in this particular location won't be completed at least once. What they want - is some lazy "switch flip" solution.

Tol'Barad and Wintergrasp were no-flying zones because they were PvP though. I don't think you can really compare that as a good implementation of fly/no-fly, since there's no similar implementation that could exist in the broken isles.

It seems to me that it's just as likely that Blizzard realizes that flying was a poor mechanic to implement in the first place, but because there are so many flying mounts out there (in addition to ones in the shop), they have to let is exist. They are fine with old content being trivialized by flying, because who cares if you can level super fast? But when the actual end-game content comes, they know that flying just isn't good gameplay. You and many others can rightfully disagree with that, but their actions seem consistent with this appraisal. They wait until the content could reasonably be called "old content" and people are getting tired of it, then flip the switch and let you breeze through it.

It's exactly like what they've done with leveling. Over time, leveling is a chore, and no longer "new content" so they are OK trivializing it. Same with flying. They don't implement it until the content is trivial and boring. I like this solution and it's consistent with their design philosophy in general, so I doubt it will change any time soon.

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If its so easy and they have the feather, just put flying in the game. The travel system in wow is terrible.

By that logic, leveling is so easy and they have heirlooms, why not just skip leveling altogether?

I think the travel system in WoW is the best it's been in a long time actually. How do you suggest they fix it? Add in flying sooner I guess? To be clear, I'm not against adding in flying; I just think it adds nothing to the game, so why waste our breath on it? It's just a question of opinion, so I can see why Blizzard hasn't found the "perfect" solution, because your perfect solution (flying all the time) is very different from my perfect solution (no flying in the current expansion zones).

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There have been countless suggestions and methods detailed on how to make it work without breaking it for everyone. Sadly, Blizzard fanatics refuse to accept anything other than whatever nonsense Blizz spouts about how it breaks the game, despite perfectly viable solutions being provided that give everyone what they want. And a distinct inability to accept that some people just don't want to play the game the same way as them.

Flying was not a problem until Blizzard made it into one. It's really just that simple. The only challenge Blizzard faces in regards to flight is managing to pull their head out of their own collective asses.

I'm being totally serious when I ask, what are the "..perfectly viable solutions being provided that give everyone what they want"? I know you can't mean "everyone" because my perfect solution is no flying in current expansion zones, and that's clearly not your perfect solution. You're obviously entitled to that opinion, but I am curious what the other solutions out there are. I find this an interesting topic to talk about because people get so passionate about their stance for some reason.

What do you mean by "not a problem until Blizzard made it into one?" It seems to me that flying was a failed experiment that Blizzard should have never added to the game, yet now they have 10 years of flying content and mounts that they are locked in. Now they are bending over backwards to limit the amount of flying players can do, and lots of folks aren't happy about that. And that's perfectly understandable. That's the danger of putting in something so game-breaking like flying; if you ever take it out, you will have hell to pay. The same thing would happen if they tried to take out LFR or pet battles or something.

[Deleted]

I said that we had several other ways or instances staying relevant before and that these things don't take a lot of dev time, we could have had mythic+ if you want it so much, and while previously we'd also have new content with new gameplay, now we don't have new content with new gameplay and only have that mythic+.

And your response to this is - "We never had m+ before. We had something else. We didn't have m+. Are you ok?" ???

Gee, what a waste of time it was to reply to your posts.

It was wise of you to backtrack on PVP.

No we did not. We had a system going in TBC which was only relevant up to a certain point in a characters gear progression. So no we did not have 5 man content relevant to all tiers in an expansion. Never did. I'm glad they introduced that. I'm not bothered by how much time they spent working on the system. It's a great system that made a whole part of the game relevant till late.

Backtrack on pvp? When did I do that?

[melodramocracy]

They really have. By only enabling it when it doesn't matter anymore.

It never 'mattered' in the first place, as it's simply a convienence. There's no objective in Legion that requires flying.

[xanzul]

They do this so it takes you longer to progress. Release less content, reduce your efficiency to complete said content = less work for the devs.

People have done Wod content with and without flight in the past expansion. People have done Legion content on the PTR with and without flight. Guess what? There was little to zero difference in the time it takes to do something with and without flight. Seriously just fucking stop with this nonsense. If Blizzard wants to gate content they have far better and more elegant ways of doing so without changing one single thing about any form of travel. Players gave feedback about potential travel issues without flight and Blizzard made some changes in Legion like the flight whistle so clearly their issue here was never about time sinks.


The reason why Blizzard wants to restrict flight are the very reasons they have stated over and over for going on 4 years now. You don't have to agree with them and you don't have to like them but you do have to accept those reasons as why Blizzard has an issue with how flight impacts the game world. That is the only way to get Blizzard to change their stance by getting on the same page with them and directly arguing against those reasons rather than making up your own or spamming passive aggressive memes at them or derailing threads with them.

This is how pro flyers got Blizzard to agree to the pathfinder compromise in the first place despite the best attempts of flybabies to shout down that type of feedback and bump it all off the first page of any major wow releated forums.

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To slow people down and have them sub for longer on less content is absolutely the main reason. Things get muddied by discussions about immersion and other fluffy stuff on which Blizzard CMs commented clumsily a few times, and perhaps some devs have some feelings about that as well, but these are side attractions, the main reason is totally and completely to slow people down for as long as possible, period.

They do this not just in flying, they do this everywhere. Instead of doing something novel and interesting, all the main features of Legion are taking a piece of content they'd do normally - like quest or instances or raids - and put twenty difficulty modes onto it. Plus sometimes gate it to the moon and back (it now takes more than 6 months to completely open a raid tier, for god's sake). Do less, gate more, add an infinite grind to make people do the same little content until they realize they have been duped into doing the same thing a thousand times in order to increase a couple of numbers - that's Blizzard of today. No flying is part of that.

Blizzard mentioned immersion as a one off comment in a few statements about flight and wasn't even one of their primary issues with flight but by and large the only people claiming flight is restricted to protect immersion are the flybabies themselves you included.

Again this is no longer theory at this point as we have a large amount of documented evidence of Wod and now Legion (due to testing of flight there) that lack of flight didn't change a god damn thing in terms of time spent. Those of you who want flight back would do well to consider retiring this talking point as it is no longer valid or relevant (not that it ever really was).

[Wingspan]

The debates in this thread have kind of gotten weird towards the end, but I still enjoy seeing that the flight controversy is continuing on.


As to the subject of the thread, a seven month delay for flight, as well as a bunch of new flying mounts to chase is actually a pretty good sign that flight has NOT been "gotten rid of". Seven months in the scope of what will probably be two years is not horrible, however Blizzard could do a total jerk-move and make 7.3 stuff nearly flightless again, so that seven months comes with a grain of salt.


This is all kind of a "time will tell" sort of thing, but so far the fate of flight looks good.


I, personally, have been gone from the game since Legion launched, and I am excited about the prospect of returning in 7.2 (because of, you guessed it, flight).

[clevin]

It never 'mattered' in the first place, as it's simply a convienence. There's no objective in Legion that requires flying.

Then there's not any reason to not have it. It cannot argued both that it's just a convenience AND that it's game breaking (not saying YOU are, just saying that the arguments are exclusive).

Can I play without it? Sure. Is there a good reason for me not to have it? No, not that I've seen. Nothing past max level seems better because I don't have flight and many things are unnecessarily annoying which is doubly aggravating because the world is DESIGNED like that. In the real world, we'd shrug at terrain like we see in Stormheim or Highmountain because that's just what happened - the mountain eroded that way, the vegetation grows that way but it's what happens in nature.

But every bit of this world is deliberately designed. The hard to find path that's the only way up a hill? Deliberate. The broken bridge that forces you do go around? Deliberately that way. It's borderline abusive of the player base.

[Deleted]

Then there's not any reason to not have it. It cannot argued both that it's just a convenience AND that it's game breaking (not saying YOU are, just saying that the arguments are exclusive).

Can I play without it? Sure. Is there a good reason for me not to have it? No, not that I've seen. Nothing past max level seems better because I don't have flight and many things are unnecessarily annoying which is doubly aggravating because the world is DESIGNED like that. In the real world, we'd shrug at terrain like we see in Stormheim or Highmountain because that's just what happened - the mountain eroded that way, the vegetation grows that way but it's what happens in nature.

But every bit of this world is deliberately designed. The hard to find path that's the only way up a hill? Deliberate. The broken bridge that forces you do go around? Deliberately that way. It's borderline abusive of the player base.

Borderline abusive of the player base...

....

You guys really should stop playing for a while.

[SirCowdog]

Tol'Barad and Wintergrasp were no-flying zones because they were PvP though. I don't think you can really compare that as a good implementation of fly/no-fly, since there's no similar implementation that could exist in the broken isles.

It seems to me that it's just as likely that Blizzard realizes that flying was a poor mechanic to implement in the first place, but because there are so many flying mounts out there (in addition to ones in the shop), they have to let is exist. They are fine with old content being trivialized by flying, because who cares if you can level super fast? But when the actual end-game content comes, they know that flying just isn't good gameplay. You and many others can rightfully disagree with that, but their actions seem consistent with this appraisal. They wait until the content could reasonably be called "old content" and people are getting tired of it, then flip the switch and let you breeze through it.

Content is old maybe 2 weeks after it's released to the public. Not halfway through the expansion. Restricting flight for an arbitrary time frame instead of allowing players to unlock it at their own pace is what you keep referring to as "Bad design" or "Bad gameplay". Not flying itself.

I think the travel system in WoW is the best it's been in a long time actually. How do you suggest they fix it? Add in flying sooner I guess? To be clear, I'm not against adding in flying; I just think it adds nothing to the game, so why waste our breath on it? It's just a question of opinion, so I can see why Blizzard hasn't found the "perfect" solution, because your perfect solution (flying all the time) is very different from my perfect solution (no flying in the current expansion zones).

Flying adds nothing to the game right now because blizzard is ignoring that it exists. They're building everything around the flawed idea that EVERYONE wants to experience everything from the ground. I need only point to the past couple of years of this argument to prove that idea is flawed.

I'm being totally serious when I ask, what are the "..perfectly viable solutions being provided that give everyone what they want"? I know you can't mean "everyone" because my perfect solution is no flying in current expansion zones, and that's clearly not your perfect solution. You're obviously entitled to that opinion, but I am curious what the other solutions out there are. I find this an interesting topic to talk about because people get so passionate about their stance for some reason.

"Perfectly viable" is not the same as "perfect". Let's get that straight right now. I never said that mixing flying and no-flying areas would be perfect for everyone.

The old design where they used to have some zones which were flying and some which weren't worked just fine. It was not broken. In fact, that format was used in expansions that many people consider to be the best over the years. Then there are the suggestions that involve changing how flying itself works.

But mainly the best solution would involve Blizzard actually recognizing that people want to be able to use flying in relevant content. They want to be able to fly to objectives and enjoy the wonder of exploring the world from the sky. If that involves making some zones larger, or using verticality in the level design: SO BE IT. Suck it up Blizzard and stop trying to force flat, boring worlds where people have to slog around in the mud for extended periods of time, even after the content has already been exhausted.

If you want more examples in detail, go back and read through this thread, then go find the mega-threads. The info is there, and I'm not going to rehash it now just so people can nitpick.

What do you mean by "not a problem until Blizzard made it into one?" It seems to me that flying was a failed experiment that Blizzard .

I stopped reading here. Flying wasn't a "Failed experiment". It was part of the game for nearly a decade. This isn't something they tried for only one expansion. If all you're going to to is regurgitate the weak excuses Blizzard vomits out to rationalize their fixation on ground-only design, then there's nothing more to discuss.

[clevin]

Borderline abusive of the player base...

....

You guys really should stop playing for a while.

IN game design terms, it is. It wastes my time and does so deliberately.

But then, why reply to a troll like you who doesn't even bother to engage and just cherrypicks things so you can feel like you're a stud. Hint: you're not.

[Deleted]

IN game design terms, it is. It wastes my time and does so deliberately.

But then, why reply to a troll like you who doesn't even bother to engage and just cherrypicks things so you can feel like you're a stud. Hint: you're not.

It's a video game.
You're playing a video game.

Your time is already worth fuck all when playing a video game.

Anyway yes, Blizzard is ABUSING THE PLAYER BASE because it uses verticality, inside/outside areas and walls to keep the subs flowing.

You got it right there brother! *highfive* what you're saying is totally stable.

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Content is old maybe 2 weeks after it's released to the public. Not halfway through the expansion. Restricting flight for an arbitrary time frame instead of allowing players to unlock it at their own pace is what you keep referring to as "Bad design" or "Bad gameplay". Not flying itself.





Flying adds nothing to the game right now because blizzard is ignoring that it exists. They're building everything around the flawed idea that EVERYONE wants to experience everything from the ground. I need only point to the past couple of years of this argument to prove that idea is flawed.





"Perfectly viable" is not the same as "perfect". Let's get that straight right now. I never said that mixing flying and no-flying areas would be perfect for everyone.

The old design where they used to have some zones which were flying and some which weren't worked just fine. It was not broken. In fact, that format was used in expansions that many people consider to be the best over the years. Then there are the suggestions that involve changing how flying itself works.

But mainly the best solution would involve Blizzard actually recognizing that people want to be able to use flying in relevant content. They want to be able to fly to objectives and enjoy the wonder of exploring the world from the sky. If that involves making some zones larger, or using verticality in the level design: SO BE IT. Suck it up Blizzard and stop trying to force flat, boring worlds where people have to slog around in the mud for extended periods of time, even after the content has already been exhausted.

If you want more examples in detail, go back and read through this thread, then go find the mega-threads. The info is there, and I'm not going to rehash it now just so people can nitpick.






I stopped reading here. Flying wasn't a "Failed experiment". It was part of the game for nearly a decade. This isn't something they tried for only one expansion. If all you're going to to is regurgitate the weak excuses Blizzard vomits out to rationalize their fixation on ground-only design, then there's nothing more to discuss.

Content is not old 2.weeks into the expansion in legion because you will have world quests and dungeons to fly to. Whoops.

They're not building the game around the idea that everyone wants to stay on the ground. They're building the game around the fact that having the players stuck to the ground allows them to design in depth. Flying would trivialise all verticality. There's no walls, no boundaries. You might enjoy that. They don't care. They want to design in a way that's actually good for the game. Not for one or two creepos that play the game because of.... flying?!?

The "excuses blizzard vomits". Ahahahahahah

[Dormie]

Tbh flight feels like it's perfectly timed this expansion.