Blizzard have effectively gotten rid of flying

[Wingspan]

Tbh flight feels like it's perfectly timed this expansion.

As long as they don't negate flight in 7.3, there should probably be over year with flight and only about seven months without.

While I would prefer it there all the time, that isn't too bad I guess. Particularly since they are probably doing it through Achievements for the rest of time, you can probably write-off at least 2 months per expansion at a minimum anyway.

[Deleted]

Tbh flight feels like it's perfectly timed this expansion.

True. All quest chains relqted to the achievement have been completed by everyone, wqs are still viable because of emissary drops, you still have to fly to dungeons...
It's well timed you're right.

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As long as they don't negate flight in 7.3, there should probably be over year with flight and only about seven months without.

While I would prefer it there all the time, that isn't too bad I guess.

They will most likely negate flying in whatever world we're in 7.3 I'm guessing.

[Wingspan]

They will most likely negate flying in whatever world we're in 7.3 I'm guessing.

That is entirely possible. If so, then it will kind of boil down to how important the 7.3 zone is, how it is built, and how much time you need to spend there.


Timeless Isle was a tolerable no-fly zone for me because it was freakishly small, had no real questing, and other than a weekly boss or pet battle tournament trip you could get almost everything you wanted from the zone in a single day (other than some pet drops - which could be bought in the AH).

In MoP I leveled most of my alts entirely on Pet Battles (so they had almost zero gear at level cap) and then I immediately marched them off to TI and they were fully geared in catch-up gear in about 2 hours. Even I could tolerate a no-fly zone for that!

[Deleted]

They just want to remove flying because it makes their jobs cheaper to do. If you cant fly, they don't have to finish the tops of mountains and crap. They can make the world smaller, because running on uneven ground gives the effect that the land is bigger. It is all about saving $$ and nothing else.

This just isn't true, they have to design the zone with flight in mind for when it DOES become available. They are not gonna design it for no flying and then go back and redo it later when they add flight, they are designing all zones with flight in mind from the start, unless its a zone that will never have flight by design.

[Deleted]

That is entirely possible. If so, then it will kind of boil down to how important the 7.3 zone is, how it is built, and how much time you need to spend there.


Timeless Isle was a tolerable no-fly zone for me because it was freakishly small, had no real questing, and other than a weekly boss (or pet battle) trip you could get almost everything you wanted from the zone in a single day (other than some pet drops - which could be bought in the AH).

In MoP I leveled most of my alts entirely on Pet Battles (so they had almost zero gear) and marched them off to TI and they were fully geared in catch-up gear in about 2 hours. Even I could tolerate a no-fly zone for that!

It probably will be a vital part of the game yes. Especially if as Mr. Illidan puts it we "follow him into the abyss".
So yeah. Hopefully we won't get anything close to timeless Isle. Or anything mop related.
Ever.

[bufferunderrun]

If we don't know as you say than we cannot assume it is all over afterwards either. So we can confirm they have gotten rid of nothing. Well we can also confirm you will be negative to collaborate your story.

So technically you don't know what it is. Either do I. But that can only means one thing. No one knows. Which means we cannot say we have effectively gotten rid of anything. But I couldn't say that better than you of course.

we know already that we need to complete 7.2 content to unlock flying what we don't know is how thing will go in 7.3

[Wingspan]

This just isn't true, they have to design the zone with flight in mind for when it DOES become available. They are not gonna design it for no flying and then go back and redo it later when they add flight, they are designing all zones with flight in mind from the start, unless its a zone that will never have flight by design.

Skalm was probably correct there to a degree.


Design on WoD was started with flight in mind, so the zones were still fairly large and typical of WoW design. It was after WoD was released that they decided to kill flight, so this impacted zone design in Legion (because that is about the time the development should have really been firing up).

By most reports, Legion has a much smaller "footprint" than previous expansions... which (if true) is the direct result of originally designing with no intention for players to fly.


Look at the advantages...


The zones can be smaller while still taking the same time to travel in (if not more), saving development money.

There is no need to "finish" the 3-D vertical environment, also saving money.



Was it ALL a money-based decision? Nah, some developers legitimately thought it limited game design... but in any business, money makes the final determination. Someone-somewhere sat down and projected how many subs would be lost versus how much money would be saved by limiting movement and determined it was worth it... there is no telling where that someone is now.

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It probably will be a vital part of the game yes. Especially if as Mr. Illidan puts it we "follow him into the abyss".
So yeah. Hopefully we won't get anything close to timeless Isle. Or anything mop related.
Ever.

It's anyone's guess at the moment.

Classically, Blizz patch zones are on the small side (with a few exceptions) where you are intended to spend a month or so there to get whatever you want from it. Their design choices in Legion have become freakishly unpredictable however, so who the hell knows?

[bufferunderrun]

I'm being totally serious when I ask, what are the "..perfectly viable solutions being provided that give everyone what they want"? I know you can't mean "everyone" because my perfect solution is no flying in current expansion zones, and that's clearly not your perfect solution. You're obviously entitled to that opinion, but I am curious what the other solutions out there are. I find this an interesting topic to talk about because people get so passionate about their stance for some reason.

What do you mean by "not a problem until Blizzard made it into one?" It seems to me that flying was a failed experiment that Blizzard should have never added to the game, yet now they have 10 years of flying content and mounts that they are locked in. Now they are bending over backwards to limit the amount of flying players can do, and lots of folks aren't happy about that. And that's perfectly understandable. That's the danger of putting in something so game-breaking like flying; if you ever take it out, you will have hell to pay. The same thing would happen if they tried to take out LFR or pet battles or something.

The solution is to leave thing as they were, flying as never been a problem until they started to push this insane no flying around, BC had flying and no one ever complained (beside some complain about quel'danas not allowing it), wotlk no complains, cata no complains; people asked for ages to make vanilla continents flyable.

Everything was fine for everyone beside some devs who though that making zones flyable was sucking to much resources, what i think is a perfect solution is to go back to that design and stop creating fantasy problems that need fantasy solutions.

hit lvl cap -> buy fly license and gg

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This just isn't true, they have to design the zone with flight in mind for when it DOES become available. They are not gonna design it for no flying and then go back and redo it later when they add flight, they are designing all zones with flight in mind from the start, unless its a zone that will never have flight by design.

They design them in 2d? No
They make them smaller and with less populated areas? yes

60% of current zones is just scenery and those zones are already much smaller than wotlk, that mean less peoples working on it and less time spent building them.

[SirCowdog]

It's a video game.
You're playing a video game.

Your time is already worth fuck all when playing a video game.

Anyway yes, Blizzard is ABUSING THE PLAYER BASE because it uses verticality, inside/outside areas and walls to keep the subs flowing.

You got it right there brother! *highfive* what you're saying is totally stable.

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Content is not old 2.weeks into the expansion in legion because you will have world quests and dungeons to fly to. Whoops.

They're not building the game around the idea that everyone wants to stay on the ground. They're building the game around the fact that having the players stuck to the ground allows them to design in depth. Flying would trivialise all verticality. There's no walls, no boundaries. You might enjoy that. They don't care. They want to design in a way that's actually good for the game. Not for one or two creepos that play the game because of.... flying?!?

The "excuses blizzard vomits". Ahahahahahah

Do you really think that going back to a world quest where you kick squirrels for the 100th time is relevant content? Do you think having to waste time just to GET to the content you actually want to play is good design, especially when the time spent traveling doesn't actually contain ANYTHING of relevance?

The current ground design doesn't have any depth. Once you've seen it the first time, that's it. There's no nuance there. This isn't a Metroidvania where the castle turns upside down and completely creates a new experience after you've got a new ability. It's the same shit you saw the first time, repeated without anything new.

That's what you're defending. Where is the depth? If the grounded experience is so valuable and high quality, then why is Blizzard resorting to FORCING people into it instead of giving them a choice? Where is it? Point out the open world ground experience that is so good that you would forgo flying in order to play it. It doesn't exist. Because if it did, people would be able to CHOOSE to fly or not and it wouldn't matter.

If Blizzard has some encounters and battles they want to present in a certain way from the ground, fine. I'm ok with that. Dungeons and raids cover that pretty well. I enjoyed Firelands, leveling up from the ground, and other such no-fly areas. But the idea that it's the ONLY way to present content, especially within the scope of an open world, is ridiculous, especially given the example of TBC-MOP, where flight existed without anything breaking.

Because...god forbid...the open world is actually open.

[Deleted]

Do you really think that going back to a world quest where you kick squirrels for the 100th time is relevant content? Do you think having to waste time just to GET to the content you actually want to play is good design, especially when the time spent traveling doesn't actually contain ANYTHING of relevance?

see... the difference between you and me is you're talking opinions. I'm talking facts. FACTUALLY speaking, world quests will be relevant for a long time in legion thanks to the way emissary quests are handled, and dungeons will always be ran thanks to m+. So yes... facts----->opinions. Not saying your opinion is wrong mind you.
Just saying I simply don't care what your view of "relevant" is. I'm not talking opinions here.
Oh and to add... no I really REALLY don't care how to get from A to B especially because I've been in vanilla and I know what it means to walk your way to Tanaris to get that flypath. Travelling in legion is extremely fast and efficient. If travelling times in legion bother you, it really is your own problem, brother.

The current ground design doesn't have any depth. Once you've seen it the first time, that's it. There's no nuance there. This isn't a Metroidvania where the castle turns upside down and completely creates a new experience after you've got a new ability. It's the same shit you saw the first time, repeated without anything new.

This is the same with every expansion ever released. Usually you do content once. Then you know what's going on and the magic fades away. You still do it if you're an altoholic like me. Uuuuuh big deal what a discovery.
But seriously though, you're going to have a serious HARD time arguing that zones in legion don't have depth. There is a fucking ZOO in suramar. Come on be serious.

That's what you're defending. Where is the depth? If the grounded experience is so valuable and high quality, then why is Blizzard resorting to FORCING people into it instead of giving them a choice? Where is it? Point out the open world ground experience that is so good that you would forgo flying in order to play it. It doesn't exist. Because if it did, people would be able to CHOOSE to fly or not and it wouldn't matter.

Why? Easy, because they want the players to go through a narrative experience which simply CANNOT be controlled with flying. The reason why is pretty simple. Flying allows you to cross walls with little bother.
Quick example, spires of Arak.
Spires of Arak has one of the most captivating introduction quests of all wow. First of you walk in this road that's elevated from the jungle underneath, you learn that above jungle=good underneath=bad, and then as events unfold you are forced to walk your way under, entering this dangerous world of shadowy figures, dark colour palettes and danger.
Cool stuff huh? Now you try and implement that in a scenario where EVERYONE can access the zone from EVERYWHERE, at any time.
Yeah exactly. Can't be done. Which is why for example I entered twilight Highlands the wrong way, than mounted up and flew south, eventually discovering the place I was actually meant to be. Yeah Meh. Didn't really get into it. Good zone mind you but how can you narrate a story when your only tools are walls, and people can simply fly above them?

If Blizzard has some encounters and battles they want to present in a certain way from the ground, fine. I'm ok with that. Dungeons and raids cover that pretty well. I enjoyed Firelands, leveling up from the ground, and other such no-fly areas. But the idea that it's the ONLY way to present content, especially within the scope of an open world, is ridiculous, especially given the example of TBC-MOP, where flight existed without anything breaking.

Because...god forbid...the open world is actually open.

Erm... wat? Tbc and mop didn't have flying up till after you dinged. Which means you got to listen to the story they wanted you to hear, AAAALL the way from hellfire to whenever you dinged max level. Good system? Maybe. Not really groundbreaking.
In fact, I don't really care whether or not flying is introduced at max level. I enjoy the last 2 expansions not having flight. Although in wod I didn't play much, I'm playing a lot more now in Legion and not once I stopped and thought "mmmh I'd really need a mount now". That is because blizzard learned and facilitated alternative methods of travelling.

Yeah so.... That's pretty much all there is.

[SirCowdog]

see... the difference between you and me is you're talking opinions. I'm talking facts. FACTUALLY speaking, world quests will be relevant for a long time in legion thanks to the way emissary quests are handled, and dungeons will always be ran thanks to m+. So yes... facts----->opinions. Not saying your opinion is wrong mind you.

Do you really believe that slapping on a chest of random loot(that you probably don't even need) for doing a reputation grind you already completed earlier in the expansion is "relevant"? What a joke!

Don't even bring M+ dungeons into the equation. No one has ever asked for flying in a dungeon, and the few times you've been able to have been gimmicks using the vehicle mechanics, not regular open world flight. But for the record, if the open world actually used the M+ toolset to keep it relevant by allowing players to increase the difficulty and rewards of WQs, THEN you'd have a point I'd agree with.

Oh and to add... no I really REALLY don't care how to get from A to B especially because I've been in vanilla and I know what it means to walk your way to Tanaris to get that flypath. Travelling in legion is extremely fast and efficient. If travelling times in legion bother you, it really is your own problem, brother.

Good, because I don't care how you get from point A to point B either. All I care about is how I get from point A to point B. If you want to slog around and waste time in the mud, more power to you. But don't tell me I can't get somewhere fast because YOU don't want to.

But seriously though, you're going to have a serious HARD time arguing that zones in legion don't have depth. There is a fucking ZOO in suramar.

That's scenery that would still exist if we could fly in suramar. How would it change if, say...we put the zoo on floating islands, or if suramar had a massive domed bulding with flying critters as part of the zoo?

Come on be serious. Why? Easy, because they want the players to go through a narrative experience which simply CANNOT be controlled with flying.

*Points to TBC through MOP*

Oh...I'm sorry, does that 7 years of narrative that included flying just not count?

The reason why is pretty simple. Flying allows you to cross walls with little bother.

THEN STOP RELYING ON SHIT WALLS AS YOUR ONLY TOOL TO PRESENT CONTENT. FFS.....jesus. Really? I know "think outside of the box" is just a phrase, but fuck me.

[Deleted]

Do you really believe that slapping on a chest of random loot(that you probably don't even need) for doing a reputation grind you already completed earlier in the expansion is "relevant"? What a joke!

Don't even bring M+ dungeons into the equation. No one has ever asked for flying in a dungeon, and the few times you've been able to have been gimmicks using the vehicle mechanics, not regular open world flight. But for the record, if the open world actually used the M+ toolset to keep it relevant by allowing players to increase the difficulty and rewards of WQs, THEN you'd have a point I'd agree with.




Good, because I don't care how you get from point A to point B either. All I care about is how I get from point A to point B. If you want to slog around and waste time in the mud, more power to you. But don't tell me I can't get somewhere fast because YOU don't want to.




That's scenery that would still exist if we could fly in suramar. How would it change if, say...we put the zoo on floating islands, or if suramar had a massive domed bulding with flying critters as part of the zoo?



*Points to TBC through MOP*

Oh...I'm sorry, does that 7 years of narrative that included flying just not count?




THEN STOP RELYING ON SHIT WALLS AS YOUR ONLY TOOL TO PRESENT CONTENT. FFS.....jesus. Really? I know "think outside of the box" is just a phrase, but fuck me.

Ok. Maybe you're not listening.
Let me try again one last time.

What YOU think of world quests is irrelevant. However, what world quests GIVE makes them relevant. Period.
You still need to fly to m+ do you?

I'm not telling you you can't fly. Blizzard is telling you you can't fly. And that's all there is.
You totally missed the point however. Travel times in legion ARE fast. Again, if that bothers you, it's your problem. Really. And you're going to have a hard time explaining anyone how travelling times in legion are bothersome and clunky.

Yeah.... floating zoo on an island....
That has NOTHING to do with the point AT ALL.
The point is that legion has presented us a map and a story that has tons of depth. But yeah... floating zoos.

7 years of what? TBC had flying at max level, so did mop, wotlk had flying at 77 and cata had free flight. Soooo 7 years of what again?

Let's play a game. You're a developer. You have to replicate the scenario I described in spires of Arak, only with flying mounts.
Go.

[SirCowdog]

Ok. Maybe you're not listening.
Let me try again one last time.

Oh, I'm listening. Your points just have holes in them large enough to drive a truck through.

What YOU think of world quests is irrelevant. However, what world quests GIVE makes them relevant. Period.
You still need to fly to m+ do you?

As I literally just said in my post above: Slapping on a chest of loot that contains something you likely don't even need, and only giving it when you've already completed the reputation grind doesn't make it relevant. Or rather, the "relevance" is so insignificant that it should not be impacting the way that players interact with the content at that point. Players have already seen the story and done the quests while leveling up and/or consuming the content the first time. Restricting flight after that point only serves to artificially extend the amount of time needed to grind for those insignificant "rewards".

If "grind for emissary chests" is the best reason you can come up with to withhold flying in content that has already been completed ad nausem, then I submit that your argument is excessively weak.

And what does M+ have to do with flying? Nothing. Adding travel time just to reach the entrance of a dungeon doesn't add anything to the dungeon itself. It's just more useless filler.

I'm not telling you you can't fly.

You, and many others like you, are advocating it. And if you think what players want has no effect on how Blizzard designs the game, then you haven't been paying attention. We don't dictate to them, but majority opinion DOES have an impact.

Yeah.... floating zoo in an island....
That has NOTHING to do with the point AT ALL.
The point is that legion has presented us a map and a story that has tons of depth. But yeah... floating zoos.

Hey, you're the one who brought up a ZOO in suramar as though it was some kind of support for your arugment. I just suggested a way that it could work to include flying. Story and depth of map design are not exclusively tied to the ground. As I keep saying: TBC through MoP is the proof of that.

7 years of what? TBC had flying at max level, so did mop, wotlk had flying at 77 and cata had free flight. Soooo 7 years of what again?

/facepalm

7 years of the game having flight while also having narrative that wasn't broken by it. How is this not clear?

Let's play a game. You're a developer. You have to replicate the scenario I described in spires of Arak, only with flying mounts.
Go.

I know this game: It's called "Asking someone to repeat their explanation so I can nitpick it".

Sorry, I'm not playing. I don't have to try to come up with theoretical examples because there's already real examples to draw on. *Points to TBC through Mop....AGAIN*

[-Joker-]

Blah blah blah.

And spare me your self-righteous lines of pseudo-dignity in a conversation.

You should delete the "Flying" from your forum nickname, because the leftover is what you are.

Another post of Brilliance from our resident "special" forum person. Where things get out of context so he can argue about things out of context.

Well, since you are obviously just here to pick fights, call people names, and use passive aggressive behavior to avoid forum bans, I can see we have nothing further to discuss. I gave you a chance to act like an adult, and you picked an alternate path. So be it. There are plenty of other people who are willing to discuss the topic like a grown up in the thread. I'm sure I'll find someone. Thanks.

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we know already that we need to complete 7.2 content to unlock flying what we don't know is how thing will go in 7.3

It is unlikey they will remove flight in 7.3, but more likely that the final zone (much like Pandaria) will remain free from flight. Honestly not that big of an inconvenience.

[Vestig3]

The title is a bit weird coz we will have flying therefor this whole thread shouldnt have been created.

[Deleted]

Oh, I'm listening. Your points just have holes in them large enough to drive a truck through.



As I literally just said in my post above: Slapping on a chest of loot that contains something you likely don't even need, and only giving it when you've already completed the reputation grind doesn't make it relevant. Or rather, the "relevance" is so insignificant that it should not be impacting the way that players interact with the content at that point. Players have already seen the story and done the quests while leveling up and/or consuming the content the first time. Restricting flight after that point only serves to artificially extend the amount of time needed to grind for those insignificant "rewards".

If "grind for emissary chests" is the best reason you can come up with to withhold flying in content that has already been completed ad nausem, then I submit that your argument is excessively weak.

And what does M+ have to do with flying? Nothing. Adding travel time just to reach the entrance of a dungeon doesn't add anything to the dungeon itself. It's just more useless filler.



You, and many others like you, are advocating it. And if you think what players want has no effect on how Blizzard designs the game, then you haven't been paying attention. We don't dictate to them, but majority opinion DOES have an impact.



Hey, you're the one who brought up a ZOO in suramar as though it was some kind of support for your arugment. I just suggested a way that it could work to include flying. Story and depth of map design are not exclusively tied to the ground. As I keep saying: TBC through MoP is the proof of that.



/facepalm

7 years of the game having flight while also having narrative that wasn't broken by it. How is this not clear?




I know this game: It's called "Asking someone to repeat their explanation so I can nitpick it".

Sorry, I'm not playing. I don't have to try to come up with theoretical examples because there's already real examples to draw on. *Points to TBC through Mop....AGAIN*

What a mess jesus christ. You're all over the shop man. Be coherent for the love of God.

Read my lips:
I am not asking for your opinion on world quests, as your opinion does not matter. World quests are relevant until they are relevant. With the way emissary quests are implemented and a chance at legendary, world quests are relevant PERIOD.
I'm not asking your opinion on world quests so please do not give me one.
Flying to m+ means that flying will be released when content is still relevant.
Judging by the multitude of goalposts being moved in this mess of a post of yours, it looks to me as if you don't remember what you said. You said content is old 2 weeks into the expansion.
I'm contesting what you said. Thanks to the way some systems in legion are implemented, flying in 7.2 will be introduced in a world that still has plenty of relevance.
I haven't said half of the things you're claiming I said.
Man... clean your argument up cause this is absolutely atrocious to go through.

You don't know what I'm advocating and it's also absolutely secondary to the point. I don't want to entertain a philosophical debate about the benefits of flying. I'm telling you that if travelling in legion bothers you, YOU are the problem, not the system, which has been improved tons and it's now sharp, fast and responsive. You can go anywhere and be ready in 5 minutes time TOPS.

I brought up a zoo cause you were claiming zones in legion lack of depth, which let's face it, it's a ridiculous claim to make when you're presented with the kind of map we were given this expansion.
You keep blubbering about this TBC through MOP.
Let me get this straight one more time.
In TBC you were stuck to the ground till max level. This allowed the presentation of outland through hellfire peninsula, something we all remember. TBC makes a point towards MY argument not yours. You can't tell a story like the introduction of hellfire peninsula if you allow flying.
Wotlk had flying at lvl 77. Which meant that if you followed a reasonable questing pattern, you'd have storm Peaks, icecrown and half of a zone left with flying. The rest was ALL design with you being stuck on the ground.
Want an example? Boreal tundra as horde, or even better and possibly my favourite zone ever, zul drak.
These were all zones designed to be accessed by following a designated path. This was wotlk.
MoP had flying at max level which once again, meant you HAD to follow certain paths in order to follow the story.
The ONLY expansion that had flying from the beginning was Cata. Soooo when you say 7 years I don't know what the fuck you on about.

No the game is called "you can't provide a way to present an introduction to a zone like spires or hellfire peninsula, simply because it's not possible with flying". Pretty long name yes.

[SirCowdog]

World quests are relevant until they are relevant.

Wut?

I'm not asking your opinion on world quests so please do not give me one.

So you're not interested in anyone's opinion but your own. Noted.

Flying to m+ means that flying will be released when content is still relevant.

M+ is instanced content. No one is asking for flying in instanced content. Flying TO the entrance of instanced content is filler, nothing more. Until and unless the content between you and the instance actually effects the content INSIDE the instance.

Judging by the multitude of goalposts being moved in this mess of a post of yours, it looks to me as if you don't remember what you said. You said content is old 2 weeks into the expansion.
I'm contesting what you said. Thanks to the way some systems in legion are implemented, flying in 7.2 will be introduced in a world that still has plenty of relevance.

Just placing a chest at the end of additional grind in order to encourage people to keep grinding for rewards they don't actually need isn't the same as making the content relevant. It's just adding more filler. I submit that if you think just slapping another chest at the end of more grind DOES make content relevant, then your concept of good content is flawed. While I can concede that you are technically correct, the quality of said "relevance" is so low as to not be worth considering.

I don't want to entertain a philosophical debate about the benefits of flying.

Again...so you're not interested in viewpoints other than your own. Noted.

I'm telling you that if travelling in legion bothers you, YOU are the problem, not the system, which has been improved tons and it's now sharp, fast and responsive. You can go anywhere and be ready in 5 minutes time TOPS.

And despite that it's still worse than just giving players flight or simply letting them teleport directly to the content they're actually interested in via a waypoint style system. Current travel in WoW is the worst form of travel in an MMO I've seen in a long time.

I brought up a zoo cause you were claiming zones in legion lack of depth, which let's face it, it's a ridiculous claim to make when you're presented with the kind of map we were given this expansion.

And you still haven't explained how a zoo adds depth to the gameplay. Because if all we're talking about is scenery, that has nothing to do with flying.

In TBC you were stuck to the ground till max level. This allowed the presentation of outland through hellfire peninsula, something we all remember. TBC makes a point towards MY argument not yours. You can't tell a story like the introduction of hellfire peninsula if you allow flying.

Yes...actually you can. I can go fly through Hellfire Peninsula right now with a boosted character and get just as much story from it as from the ground. Sure, my experience will be different than someone who does it from the ground, but that's not the same as it being IMPOSSIBLE to get the story. The major flaw with your argument is that you refuse to accept that.

Wotlk had flying at lvl 77. Which meant that if you followed a reasonable questing pattern, you'd have storm Peaks, icecrown and half of a zone left with flying. The rest was ALL design with you being stuck on the ground. Want an example? Boreal tundra as horde, or even better and possibly my favourite zone ever, zul drak.These were all zones designed to be accessed by following a designated path. This was wotlk. MoP had flying at max level which once again, meant you HAD to follow certain paths in order to follow the story. The ONLY expansion that had flying from the beginning was Cata. Soooo when you say 7 years I don't know what the fuck you on about.

Restricting flight while leveling is not the same as restricting flight for 12 months into the expansion for level-capped characters.

As I've said: I don't have any problem with SOME of the content being flight-restricted, especially if it serves a specific method of telling part of the story. However, asking me to accept that EVERY piece of content is completely ruined by a flying player is out of the question. It does not follow logical sense, and is based on the flawed assumption that everyone wants the same thing and will get the same enjoyment from playing exactly the same way.

No the game is called "you can't provide a way to present an introduction to a zone like spires or hellfire peninsula, simply because it's not possible with flying". Pretty long name yes.

See above. Just because you disagree or can't think of anything other than ground content doesn't mean it can't exist.

[Deleted]

Wut?



So you're not interested in anyone's opinion but your own. Noted.

I'm not discussing opinions here. I don't care about your opinion. I didn't give you mine. What makes you think yours is so important?

M+ is instanced content. No one is asking for flying in instanced content. Flying TO the entrance of instanced content is filler, nothing more. Until and unless the content between you and the instance actually effects the content INSIDE the instance.

are you ok? You need to GET there do you understand that? Flying helps you GET there yeah? That is all that flying does. GET you there.

Just placing a chest at the end of additional grind in order to encourage people to keep grinding for rewards they don't actually need isn't the same as making the content relevant. It's just adding more filler. I submit that if you think just slapping another chest at the end of more grind DOES make content relevant, then your concept of good content is flawed. While I can concede that you are technically correct, the quality of said "relevance" is so low as to not be worth considering.

And once again, thank you for your opinion but A) I'm not interested and B) it does not change the fact that emissary chests are relevant content.
AS SUCH, the original point that content becomes old in 2 weeks and that flying is released in content that is not relevant is wrong. One day we can discuss how much we like things. However now I'm not interested in such an exchange.

Again...so you're not interested in viewpoints other than your own. Noted.


And despite that it's still worse than just giving players flight or simply letting them teleport directly to the content they're actually interested in via a waypoint style system. Current travel in WoW is the worst form of travel in an MMO I've seen in a long time.

Yeah whatever. Nothing noticeable. If you can't wait 5 minutes maximum to get to anywhere you want it's on you. It's not on me, on the developers on the game. It's totally and unequivocally on you. Youre turning this into a matter of principles. And thats usually when reasoning goes out the window.

And you still haven't explained how a zoo adds depth to the gameplay. Because if all we're talking about is scenery, that has nothing to do with flying.

That was just a silly example. As I said before, you're going to have a hard time explaining anyone that suramar doesn't have depth in both scenery and game design.

Yes...actually you can. I can go fly through Hellfire Peninsula right now with a boosted character and get just as much story from it as from the ground. Sure, my experience will be different than someone who does it from the ground, but that's not the same as it being IMPOSSIBLE to get the story. The major flaw with your argument is that you refuse to accept that.

...
Erm... no you see, if you get to the portal and mount up like you do now, you're not told about the assault the burning legion is carrying out to the portal, you're not told about your mission, about why you're heading down to thrallmar. Surely you'll get there and start questing. Obviously blizzard wants you to be told to go there though. Because they want their game to have depth, and not be a shallow sequence of platforms and quest hubs.

Restricting flight while leveling is not the same as restricting flight for 12 months into the expansion for level-capped characters.

of course it isn't. Legion however has plenty of questing that involved narratives at max level, in suramar. And they wanted you to experience that. In order not to complicate things with dismounting systems which are clunky, they decided to delay the introduction of flying and allow for a series of systems in place to make travelling around the broken Isles extremely efficient. That's reasonable. You don't see it reasonable because you're turning this into a matter of principles.

As I've said: I don't have any problem with SOME of the content being flight-restricted, especially if it serves a specific method of telling part of the story. However, asking me to accept that EVERY piece of content is completely ruined by a flying player is out of the question. It does not follow logical sense, and is based on the flawed assumption that everyone wants the same thing and will get the same enjoyment from playing exactly the same way.

I never made that point. Flying restrict that options available to developers to guide people through content but that doesn't mean it turns zones into shit. Storm Peaks was a fantastic zone because it had fantastic content. Not because it had flying. Uldum was a shit zone not because it had flying but because it had shit content. Zul drak was a great zone because it had great content, not because it didnt have flying, south barren was a shit zone because it had shit content not because it had flying... get the point?

However, from.a developers point of view, flying limits the possibilities to drive a character through a story to linear questing aka yellow exclamation marks. It's obvious they don't want that and want to offer more to the players.

[bufferunderrun]

It is unlikey they will remove flight in 7.3, but more likely that the final zone (much like Pandaria) will remain free from flight. Honestly not that big of an inconvenience.

and thus it's only useful for alts, you need to complete 7.2 to unlock pathfinder part 2 and 7.3 would likely not be flyable, it's not technically removed but in practice it is no difference with wod.

I think that when peoples talk about a compromise they just play with words the result is that flying has been heavily degrade to a mere alt catching up tool.

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However, from.a developers point of view, flying limits the possibilities to drive a character through a story to linear questing aka yellow exclamation marks. It's obvious they don't want that and want to offer more to the players.

it's already 2 xpack that flying has been effectively removed for current content and i don't see any change that justify it, quests are the same since wotlk nothing different, what has changed is the time requested to travel from hub to hub and from the hub to the objective.

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and thus it's only useful for alts, you need to complete 7.2 to unlock pathfinder part 2 and 7.3 would likely not be flyable, it's not technically removed but in practice it is no difference with wod.

I think that when peoples talk about a compromise they just play with words the result is that flying has been heavily degrade to a mere alt catching up tool.

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it's already 2 xpack that flying has been effectively removed for current content and i don't see any change that justify it, quests are the same since wotlk nothing different, what has changed is the time requested to travel from hub to hub and from the hub to the objective.

Interesting. You see no difference between the world in mop and legion. OK I guess.