Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job

[analmoose]

Today, farmworkers in the state earn about $30,000 a year if they work full time — about half the overall average pay in California. Most work fewer hours.

This is all you needed to post. Who in their right mind would slave their ass off labouring in the californian climate for that? Double that. You'll find workers.

[Total Crica]

I don't imagine many people have "fun" at their job

People that don't need to do a job that isn't fun for them are not going to do that job.

This is why illegal immigrants were doing the unfun farming jobs, they needed to.

Until Americans NEED to do those jobs, they won't.

Want Americans to do those jobs while they don't NEED to?

Make it fun.

[Risale]

CA should require its unemployed and welfare recipients to work the fields to continue to gets benefits. No one should be able to survive and not work.

You might be joking but that is a possibility I mean it has been done in the past to great effect just look at pre-war Germany.
Also a lot of people during the depression in the 1930's ended up working as day labourers just to put food on the table hell Boulder Dam (Hoover Dam now) was built in part due to the massive amount of unemployed moving into Nevada just for a chance to get a job.

If the turnip in chief actually manages to close the border (not likely) and starts deportation en masse then jobs that would normally be done by the illegals will become vacant yet these jobs still need to be done, an if you get no welfare/benefits or extremely reduced ones then americans like it or not will have to do those jobs they now refuse to do.

Now don't get me wrong I am not saying this will happen but it could and it looks to me at least that this is the way how Trump wants to get american jobs back for americans not by bringing big business back from overseas but by forcibly creating jobs for americans by deporting the illegals and denying them a way back in.

[PaladinBash]

Good, if $16 isn't enough, he's going to have to pay $20 or $25 or $30 until people want to do this shitty hard fucking job. That's exactly how it should be.

[Total Crica]

Good, if $16 isn't enough, he's going to have to pay $20 or $25 or $30 until people want to do this shitty hard fucking job. That's exactly how it should be.

LOL! People will farm for FREE when there is a need to do it, or they will starve. Food is needed, not a luxury. But until then, people who don't NEED to do it, won't do it for a crap wage. Illegal immigrants NEEDED a job, so they accepted crap wages, regardless of the crap conditions. If they are all deported, American's will NEED to do the farming, and maybe they will begin to care about the crap conditions they are in and improve them.

[Baelic]

They're still getting more in minimum wage than the UK does. What tax do they pay on those earnings

Comparing UK wages to the US (or any other Country for that matter) is a little on the apples-oranges side. Look at it after you take into account currency exchange, and possibly taxes/deductions.

[Shalcker]

You mean like those countries slapping tariffs right back on the US?

Not that threatening when US runs giant trade deficit (that is, imports way more then it exports). Also inescapable effect of being world reserve currency.

US has more leverage no matter how you look at it.

That's a pipe dream. People in cities see their closed factories and wish "gee wouldn't it be great if that factory could open again and employ the thousands of people it used to?" And that's the kind of narrative Republicans have sold for decades without ever doing anything about it.
That's not going to happen. Even if those jobs came back, robots would be doing them, not people.

Well, not everything will have robots ready immediately. Some jobs will happen. Setting up and maintaining those robots is jobs too. Perhaps automation plus local logistics will make things cheaper as well.

[Kaleredar]

People that don't need to do a job that isn't fun for them are not going to do that job.

This is why illegal immigrants were doing the unfun farming jobs, they needed to.

Until Americans NEED to do those jobs, they won't.

Want Americans to do those jobs while they don't NEED to?

Make it fun.

So what do you propose, putting in water balloon fights every 30 minutes?


Frankly, the way forward on farm work is automation, plain and simple.

You might be joking but that is a possibility I mean it has been done in the past to great effect just look at pre-war Germany.
Also a lot of people during the depression in the 1930's ended up working as day labourers just to put food on the table hell Boulder Dam (Hoover Dam now) was built in part due to the massive amount of unemployed moving into Nevada just for a chance to get a job.

If the turnip in chief actually manages to close the border (not likely) and starts deportation en masse then jobs that would normally be done by the illegals will become vacant yet these jobs still need to be done, an if you get no welfare/benefits or extremely reduced ones then americans like it or not will have to do those jobs they now refuse to do.

Now don't get me wrong I am not saying this will happen but it could and it looks to me at least that this is the way how Trump wants to get american jobs back for americans not by bringing big business back from overseas but by forcibly creating jobs for americans by deporting the illegals and denying them a way back in.

The jobs just wont get done. Places that have tried deporting illegal immigrants previously faced this same problem. No one is going to go "well that fruit needs to be harvested, better roll up my sleeves and take up a 40-hour workweek farm labor job!" The produce will, and has been left to, just rot on the vine.

Today isn't the 1930s, where a majority of jobs WERE manual labor of some kind. Americans simply aren't willing to do these jobs.

[Baelic]

With the incoming wave of automation, wages are going increase to a point where automation becomes profitable and then wages will CRASH hard.

This is mainly a short-lived victory, soon the job availability problem is going to hit everyone in the face.

[Total Crica]

automation

Factory work to make automation machinery is just as hard and crappy as farming.

[Barnabas]

You mean like those countries slapping tariffs right back on the US?



That's a pipe dream. People in cities see their closed factories and wish "gee wouldn't it be great if that factory could open again and employ the thousands of people it used to?" And that's the kind of narrative Republicans have sold for decades without ever doing anything about it.

That's not going to happen. Even if those jobs came back, robots would be doing them, not people.

Which will be perfectly reasonable when we start taxing automation.

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People that don't need to do a job that isn't fun for them are not going to do that job.

This is why illegal immigrants were doing the unfun farming jobs, they needed to.

Until Americans NEED to do those jobs, they won't.

Want Americans to do those jobs while they don't NEED to?

Make it fun.

You really can't make a commercial farm "fun" because the government forces a quota system. So whoever comes there has to at least make the minimum. Farms that have their own store can because they trade food for labor and don't fall under the quota system. I don't really know anybody that wants raw tobacco in trade for handpicking leaves for a day?

[Total Crica]

You really can't make a commercial farm "fun"

Maybe, maybe not.

But until American's are starving, they are not going to choose to do the crappy part of farming.

They have used slaves and impoverished people every time they could.

Trump is trying to deport the illegal impoverished people, leaving only impoverished American's to do the crappy part of farming.

Are there enough to fill the vacancies to ensure all American's will still be able to eat, is the question.

[Halicia]

LOL! People will farm for FREE when there is a need to do it, or they will starve.

If you're farming for someone else's benefit, it doesn't keep you from starving.

Hence why so many Walmart employees are government subsidized.

[Jastall]

I don't think many people enjoy the prospect of picking crops, period. This isn't a "go outside and pick beans for an hour at Grandad's farm and then come in for some iced lemonade and sandwiches courtesy of grandma." This is "be out in the sun for 12 hours hunched over picking beans by hand." The central valley in California can easily get to 105 degrees Fahrenheit in the summer.

For reals. Even here in Montreal, picking strawberries at 30 degrees celcius gets very old, very fast. It's cool when you do it for a day or two, you can manage. An entire summer? Fuck that noise. That breaks your back. And I can't imagine how sucky it would be in California.

[Total Crica]

If you're farming for someone else's benefit, it doesn't keep you from starving.

Hence why so many Walmart employees are government subsidized.

Oh, I know.

Rich American's will not actually DO the crappy jobs, only the impoverished Americans will, because they NEED a job and the rich American's will only give them the crappy jobs.

Are there enough impoverished American's to refill the vacancies after deporting the impoverished illegal immigrants, is the question?

I don't think there are, otherwise why defund Planned Parenthood's government subsidies?

Need all those impoverished women to pump out more impoverished American's to fill those crappy jobs that rich people don't want to do, you know!

[Kaleredar]

Factory work to make automation machinery is just as hard and crappy as farming.

I highly doubt that.

Plus, machinery is usually made by other machinery.

Which will be perfectly reasonable when we start taxing automation.

And why precisely would you tax automation?

[Barnabas]

Maybe, maybe not.

But until American's are starving, they are not going to choose to do the crappy part of farming.

They have used slaves and impoverished people every time they could.

Trump is trying to deport the illegal impoverished people, leaving only impoverished American's to do the crappy part of farming.

Are there enough to fill the vacancies to ensure all American's will still be able to eat, is the question.

In a decade we won't need illegal labor to do those jobs anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

I highly doubt that.

Plus, machinery is usually made by other machinery.



And why precisely would you tax automation?

So my country doesn't lose it's tax base to robots.

[Logwyn]

Immigrants are the people who do farm labor in the US, mostly Mexican and mostly illegal.

Even at $16 an hour American citizens don't want the jobs, it's hard work in the open sun often in remote areas.
.

Why would I want a job that pays less a hour that pays less than what I make now and is in worse conditions that I have to work now. I'd also have to pack up and move way across country just to pick grapes?

You are surprised I'm not jumping at the chance?

[Auxora]

Most migrant farm workers are not being paid anywhere near $14.50 an hour. The article finds one guy driving around offering that to random people and not getting takers. Illegal migrant workers are happy to do it for less than half minimum wage, paid in cash under the table usually.

It is very true though that if you could wave a magic wand and deport every illegal in the country, there would be a lot of fallout for these kinds of hard labor unskilled jobs. That's the dirty secret that the anti-immigration side doesn't want to talk about. They don't want *all* the illegals out of the country, or else hotel rooms, vegetables and fruit, and many other things would skyrocket in price because they would need to pay legal Americans $15/hr to do them. It's an angle the Democrats really missed on in the election. They should have made it a point of emphasis on the effect anti-immigration would have on increasing prices. There's no good answer to it. It's easy to say that it's a positive since it will create $15/hr jobs for Americans, but that's a relatively small number of workers compared to the impact on the rest of the country if they had to pay double current prices for most food.

[Kaleredar]

So my country doesn't lose it's tax base to robots.

Automation has been occurring for hundreds of years.

Are we going to go back to making toothpaste caps and icecream sandwiches by hand too? How much machinery can be involved before it becomes "automated?"


The way forwards is, strangely enough, not backwards. You can't fight the future. You need to adapt to it.