Why was this meta considered stale?

[1111112345abc]

nice job op good man awesome

Please post constructively.

[Drungan]

It is better then it has been for a long time

Dragon priests there are like 3 setups that works well
Jade shamans
pirate warriors
ramp druids
jade druids
jade rogues
midrange hunters
reno locks, kinda rare and i guess they need a helping hand

Mostly playing ramp druid myself and it goes fairly well ... it is fun for sure

[HisDudeness]

It is better then it has been for a long time

Dragon priests there are like 3 setups that works well
Jade shamans
pirate warriors
ramp druids
jade druids
jade rogues
midrange hunters
reno locks, kinda rare and i guess they need a helping hand

Mostly playing ramp druid myself and it goes fairly well ... it is fun for sure

lol at this guy.

[Clozer]

only decks that were played this season:

rogue
Reno WL
Agro shaman
reno mage
pirate warrior


now after the nerf of shaman/pirates more people tend to play control so jade druid is coming right now as well. Except for rogue/wl all of those decks are so extremely easy to play i hate it.

[Twoddle]

Hearthstone is currently in the best state it has ever been, most are just copying decks from Hearthpwn or their Twitch Heroes and saying the meta is stale. People are afraid to experiment.

This time last year it was Secret Paladin, Face Hunter and Reno Lock.

[PPN]

Hearthstone is currently in the best state it has ever been, most are just copying decks from Hearthpwn or their Twitch Heroes and saying the meta is stale. People are afraid to experiment.

This is actually true. Because the possibility of deckvarieties atm would be huge. I wouldnt only reduce the lack of decks on people being afraid.

- Its also hard to build a good deck. For new players almost impossible. Also if someone netdecked his whole career, they cant build a deck....
- The netdecks are to strong
- People are to lazy to invest time, better faceroll as Pirate Warrior or Dragon Priest
- People arent creative

And again, the netdecks are just very strong Jade Shaman, Pirate Warrior & Dragon Priest...and if you make a deck that works against agro you will 100% lose against all Dragon Priests. Since i hit rank 5 few times last year, my ambitions to climb ranks are low, so i just experiment with funky decks. Atm im playing a deck with Dirty Rat, Mind Control Tech or Most Lurkers & Deathrattle. But so far i can bring these decks max to rank 12.

[Deleted]

Hearthstone is currently in the best state it has ever been, most are just copying decks from Hearthpwn or their Twitch Heroes and saying the meta is stale. People are afraid to experiment.

This time last year it was Secret Paladin, Face Hunter and Reno Lock.

I wouldn't say its people being afraid to experiment, rather what are you experimenting for??

Decks like Pirate Warrior/Dragon Priest/ Jade Druid are extremely oppressive to play against, and playing a worse/slower deck than the current meta is pointless.

[Faltemer]

Pirate warrior (and when pirate shaman was viable) are why no experimentation occurs. You can make a fun deck that might be able to do fun things, but if you are dead by turn 5-6 with answers and 4-5 without then how much can you actually do? Even jade and priest decks mean you are fairly limited as they are so quick to build a board you cant really deal with in most decks that you cant really try fun stuff out.

[Twoddle]

I wouldn't say its people being afraid to experiment, rather what are you experimenting for??

Decks like Pirate Warrior/Dragon Priest/ Jade Druid are extremely oppressive to play against, and playing a worse/slower deck than the current meta is pointless.

Not pointless if you're completing quests or don't have the cards. I had to make a Warrior deck last week without Warrior cards in it. Why? Because I had a Play 30 Warrior cards quest for 40g and a Win 3 games with Warrior quest for 50g. If you're going for optimal quest income you must avoid completing 40g quests so that you can reroll them.

Needless to say my home brewed Reno Warrior deck without Warrior cards was awesome fun and quick, destroying Jade Druids and Pirate Warriors along the way, they were completely unprepared for my deck. It was so much fun I played a few extra games and only lost one game vs Priest because yeah, Priest.

[Deleted]

Not pointless if you're completing quests or don't have the cards. I had to make a Warrior deck last week without Warrior cards in it. Why? Because I had a Play 30 Warrior cards quest for 40g and a Win 3 games with Warrior quest for 50g.

So to avoid playing warrior cards and winning games as a warrior, your bright idea was to make a warrior deck? I'm baffled...

Needless to say my home brewed Reno Warrior deck without Warrior cards was awesome fun and quick, destroying Jade Druids and Pirate Warriors along the way, they were completely unprepared for my deck. It was so much fun I played a few extra games and only lost one game vs Priest because yeah, Priest.

Yeah... uh huh... sure.

So the new meta destroyer is a reno warrior without warrior cards in it.

[Coconuter]

I think metas like this are stale from that fact that there's really only 4 variations of decks you see. Jade, Dragon Priest, Pirates, or Highlander.

Where the fun begins is finding a weakness and being that random person out there who catches them all by surprise so they don't know what to do. You know what to expect, they don't. Gives you an advantage, in my opinion, more than their deck being in the top tier.

True standard control decks are dead due to Jade Druid having the best end game of all time; infinite powerful golems... Even dragon priest is a pain, seriously, draknoid operative is one of the most OP card designs I have ever seen. For standard this opens up more midrange type decks as surprises, but, even those are trumped by dragon warrior being arguably the best midrange deck there is.

I really suggest playing wild. If you have the old cards, new deck possibilities are great. I've made multiple control decks (I love control, actually have to think and plan) that have all done really well. Currently made a N'Zoth Paladin that is lots of fun, and the new death rattle cards have been a great addition.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

try doing something fun and you either die to the aggro, or kill yourself from the Reno

fucking put Reno into wild, nerf some pirate bullshit and possible nerf some dragon cards a bit, and the meta would be balanced enough that random bullshit decks could actually win if played well

[Deleted]

Where the fun begins is finding a weakness and being that random person out there who catches them all by surprise so they don't know what to do. You know what to expect, they don't. Gives you an advantage, in my opinion, more than their deck being in the top tier.

I wouldn't put too much stock in that advantage. It helps but not nearly as much, for a few reasons. One, the moment they see you are playing an unorthodox deck they will know not to expect the normal and turns out it's not THAT difficult to figure out what you're playing, and you can make good plays by educated guesses of what might be in your deck.

The second is the fact that the top decks are top decks because they are the latest and meanest decks around. Pirate warrior, for example, is faster than any other deck in the game and by that very nature restricts what can beat it. You might play an okay deck from before, with a twist or not, but in the end the pirate will simply out pace you and there is little you can do about it.

Why? Because we know what all the counters are and we know they all stink.

I really suggest playing wild. If you have the old cards, new deck possibilities are great. I've made multiple control decks (I love control, actually have to think and plan) that have all done really well. Currently made a N'Zoth Paladin that is lots of fun, and the new death rattle cards have been a great addition.

This I agree 100%. With a much bigger card pool and with fewer people trying too hard you will see a lot more variety, especially in the lower ranks. Actually I'd say the lower ranks of wild are the most enjoyable in the game. You see people playing utterly weird decks and old decks with a flavor from expansion that came out since that deck was fotm, and those decks often don't play the same way they used to.

[FobManX]

The problem is that decks now are just so easy to play. It isn't like in the days of Miracle Rogue or even Patron Warrior where you actually had to think about your turns. Aggro decks just rely on curving out and winning the board by turn 2-3 and steamrolling. Reno decks just stall until Reno, play Reno, then win in the late game vs. aggro decks, and vs. other Reno decks its just reliant on Brann+Kazakkus RNG.

Having a few dominant decks isn't the issue, its how easy and boring they are to play.

[HisDudeness]

The problem is that decks now are just so easy to play. It isn't like in the days of Miracle Rogue or even Patron Warrior where you actually had to think about your turns. Aggro decks just rely on curving out and winning the board by turn 2-3 and steamrolling. Reno decks just stall until Reno, play Reno, then win in the late game vs. aggro decks, and vs. other Reno decks its just reliant on Brann+Kazakkus RNG.

Having a few dominant decks isn't the issue, its how easy and boring they are to play.

Pretty much this. Standard backfired on Blizz big time. Surprise Surprise! People need to stop putting so much faith in Blizzard. I'm still torn on standard arena but I don't think I like it as much so far.

[Deleted]

It is better then it has been for a long time

Dragon priests there are like 3 setups that works well
Jade shamans
pirate warriors
ramp druids
jade druids
jade rogues
midrange hunters
reno locks, kinda rare and i guess they need a helping hand

Mostly playing ramp druid myself and it goes fairly well ... it is fun for sure

I've stopped playing over a year ago, and the only new thing I see in the entire list you gave are jade decks.

[Pantalaimon]

The problem is that decks now are just so easy to play. It isn't like in the days of Miracle Rogue or even Patron Warrior where you actually had to think about your turns. Aggro decks just rely on curving out and winning the board by turn 2-3 and steamrolling. Reno decks just stall until Reno, play Reno, then win in the late game vs. aggro decks, and vs. other Reno decks its just reliant on Brann+Kazakkus RNG.

Having a few dominant decks isn't the issue, its how easy and boring they are to play.

I agree with you that Patron required more thought to play, comparatively, same with Miracle Rogue and even Freeze Mage. Although, the vast majority of decks don't really require a lot of skill and super intensive thought to play imo. Most of the previous decks were fairly straightforward; aggro, control, midrange, some combos (this was actually one archtype that was easier to screw up since you have to properly pace survival tools & removal w/o dying).

Take a look at Christmas Tree Pally (the non-aggro one). That was the epitome of playing on curve. Simply try to mulligan like mad a decent 1 mana secret, minibot, muster, etc. til Tirion. The old Control Warrior player knew exactly what they needed to save execute, SS, & Brawl for (never wasting the removal until the expected threats were dropped like a scripted match-up, unless they were forced to). The old Control Priest was the same way, and you could practically predict who was going to win many turns before it happened if the warrior or priest player deviated from how they were supposed to play the match-up, and say expended spell or weapon removal on something too soon or that was not needed. Zoolock was auto play whether you played the aggro game or played the true original zoo by making value trades.

Maybe players getting too familiar with and good at the game the longer they continue playing makes any meta stale because the plays become predictable?

[HisDudeness]

I agree with you that Patron required more thought to play, comparatively, same with Miracle Rogue and even Freeze Mage. Although, the vast majority of decks don't really require a lot of skill and super intensive thought to play imo. Most of the previous decks were fairly straightforward; aggro, control, midrange, some combos (this was actually one archtype that was easier to screw up since you have to properly pace survival tools & removal w/o dying).

Take a look at Christmas Tree Pally (the non-aggro one). That was the epitome of playing on curve. Simply try to mulligan like mad a decent 1 mana secret, minibot, muster, etc. til Tirion. The old Control Warrior player knew exactly what they needed to save execute, SS, & Brawl for (never wasting the removal until the expected threats were dropped like a scripted match-up, unless they were forced to). The old Control Priest was the same way, and you could practically predict who was going to win many turns before it happened if the warrior or priest player deviated from how they were supposed to play the match-up, and say expended spell or weapon removal on something too soon or that was not needed. Zoolock was auto play whether you played the aggro game or played the true original zoo by making value trades.

Maybe players getting too familiar with and good at the game the longer they continue playing makes any meta stale because the plays become predictable?

You aren't good when you have N'zoth matey dude and patches not in you hand. Back in the day it was don't play northshire cleric because warrior has fiery war axe in his hand. Has nothing to do with the players. Blizzard is dumbing down this game more and more. Millions?? already play, They have people hooked. Why spend more money then you have too. I wish I could apply for lead card designer of this game. Isn't hard. You just make long exhausting posts about a game that isn't that complicated. Like I said before, If this wasn't a Blizzard game, it wouldn't be popular at all.

Fyi though. This is the very first time I took the time to read your entire post word for word. I usually just scan.

[Mahourai]

try doing something fun and you either die to the aggro, or kill yourself from the Reno

fucking put Reno into wild, nerf some pirate bullshit and possible nerf some dragon cards a bit, and the meta would be balanced enough that random bullshit decks could actually win if played well

Putting Reno in wild after Gadgetzan would have destroyed 3 classes, as Mage, Priest and Warlock would have had zero competitive ladder decks. Doing it now and nerfing Dragon would accomplish the same thing, except I guess Warlock Zoo would be vaguely playable.

Reno should have been rotated into the base set, as it encourages generic value decks with diverse sets of cards in construction which is pretty much the definition of a healthy archetype.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

Putting Reno in wild after Gadgetzan would have destroyed 3 classes, as Mage, Priest and Warlock would have had zero competitive ladder decks. Doing it now and nerfing Dragon would accomplish the same thing, except I guess Warlock Zoo would be vaguely playable.

Reno should have been rotated into the base set, as it encourages generic value decks with diverse sets of cards in construction which is pretty much the definition of a healthy archetype.

i mean, i did say nerf dragon and aggro a bit too. Im basically advocating bringing down the strength of the current meta decks to be vaguely equal with any other decently put together deck