Dear Blizzard, we don´t like diablofied WoW

[Sastank]

Do you understand the same argument you just used could be used against you?

Cool. You confuse a small minority with the outnumbering majority though. "A lot" can and still is in this case, a smaller number compared to the majority in such a large group.

People like you that are easily pleased are the cancer of this game, please quit. Blizz and the community won't miss you or posts like these.

Aww I upset someone on the internet. :'(

[Jinpachi]

don't bet if you are going to lose.

i dont make losing bets

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Because the 172 voters represents the majority of wow players...foh

[Kreeshak]

i dont make losing bets

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Because the 172 voters represents the majority of wow players...foh

you do.

Because you don't have any better metrics to show off.

[Deleted]

There has never been a time when this game did not have a significant time investment if you want the best rewards in the game. Perhaps the issue is not that the expansion requires more of a time investment but that your friends simply have less time to play. No one if forcing you to have to do the highest levels of content. Perhaps try just normal or heroic raiding and more casual PVP.

This next part is not a reply to your post but the idea of RNG in Legion. I agree it feels like here is a lot of it but they are doing things in 7.2 to bring the legendaries more in line with one another. Will there still be a best legendary? Yes but for your class to play and you to be even semi competitive you do not have have the "best".

No, back in the day, you got your main geared and stuff? Good, you could boost your alts through and reach good gear levels with all of them in no time.

Gearing wasn't an aspect of rolling the dice in a dice in a dice in a dice.... It was about seeing what dropped and forgotten.

That fact is what makes the game feel as if you're on an endless wheel(the possibility of getting upgrades from anywhere).

I have said it before and I'll say it again. I cussed them for the shit they brought in with thunderforging in ToT. The raid was great and it had a mild purpose to incentivize 25-man, because it had higher chances of dropping there. But nowadays, it serves practically no reason at all, other than to inflate where it is unnecessary to do so.

They are seeing the fruits of their misjudgment in the raid design as well. They have to make them so hard, that for you to beat the encounter, you actually need the gear in the first place(buffed 54 AP, strong, wf-ed gear + good leggies), that without them you wouldn't be able to beat them. And obviously as well, because if they'd actually make it the old way, people who would've been lucky, would just steamroll the place.

But on the other side, playing devils advocate, @Rotomon is also right, it does enabled casual players to enjoy an unlimited possibility of progressing the character where-ever. But at the same time, this is an MMO, not a single player game... and it's that, what seems to be forgotten. Considering the current climate of society, it really isn't a surprise though.

[Deleted]

Nobody cares about your opinion

The OP makes some good points, so take your over-reaching and utterly invalid statement and insert it into your already full poophole.

@ the OP: I agree, there should be some reward for effort and you should have an overall feeling you will attain your goals without relying on luck. It's a shame as the expansion has some serious plus-points, but this legendary thing is a massive thorn in its side.

[gonzajd777]

i dont make losing bets

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Because the 172 voters represents the majority of wow players...foh

indeed 172 voters is a pretty good sample and it represent a tendence, with a little error... so yes this numbre represents the majority of wow players.

If you know something about statistics you will realize that this is an estimator, from which you can infer the value of the parameter in the total population.

so, yes you lost the bet

[Fraylen]

Completely agree on all your points, as a raid who swapped Character for NH, in efforts to gather 54 traits to be any us full in the latter 8 bosses in mythic as the raids are tuned for 54 traits, the amount of Mythic + dungeons I've had Farm for countless hours from 35 to 54 is 1,594 7-9 mythic +s and assuming you're doing 10minute MoS/DHT Runs that's 265 straight hours(11 full days) of playing this game for the sole purpose of getting to a bench mark in raid, this game isn't fun to me anymore out side of raid, the legendary system is very unbalanced for new and returning players also for example getting 2 utility legendary over your 2 BiS Legendary is a massive difference (my retribution paladin sims 150k less than other paladins with similar ilvl/Stats and BiS legendary). this is my first time posting long time lurker but since i feel greatly on this topic i had to reply.

[Fraylen]

completely agree with OP as it takes a character from artifact level 35 1,594 7-9 Mythic +s which is 265 hours of straight game play (11 days) if we assume that the player does 10minute MoS/DhT runs which is needed to progress (and feel like an integral part of the raid team) in the last 8 bosses in Night Hold on Mythic, this also translates into new and returning Players with the Daunting, Draining, mindless farm of AP, the legendary system is extremely flawed in terms for player performance in raid due to people having utility legendary and BiS legendarys, i still play this game but i do not enjoy WoW out side of raiding haha

[Fraylen]

op is right

[Deleted]

So after 46 pages I guess I will refrain from editing the title and changing the "we" to "I". The consensus seems to have been reached as far as percentages go - a shame that I didn´t add a poll option from the get-go three weeks ago as it would likely have made the naysayers doubt their belief that all the game systems are currently right on point. Which they´re not, obviously.

I would also like to quote a part of another post in the Preach thread:

TF/WF makes sense in content that isn't the hardest content in the game, hoping that you get TF/WF gear in the HARDEST content in the game just to get upgrades doesn't really make sense.

Also, with the raid being quite obviously tuned around TF, something that was supposed to be a bonus is but a requirement. Default mythic gear doesnt feel rewarding.

Also:

I feel like WOD made most of the playerbase lazy and rightly so then blizzard did a hard switch and now expect us to be super excited to keep doing all these ingame activities that are supposed to "progress" our characters when it feels more like just pulling levers on a slot machine waiting for your lucky chance to finally kick in where you get something.

Brb, I will go test my luck some more.

[Jinpachi]

indeed 172 voters is a pretty good sample and it represent a tendence, with a little error... so yes this numbre represents the majority of wow players.

If you know something about statistics you will realize that this is an estimator, from which you can infer the value of the parameter in the total population.

so, yes you lost the bet

You're fucking stupid. 172 players out of the millions of other players is in no way shape or form EVER a good sample to estimate the opinions of the player base.

[Grimnakh]

You're fucking stupid. 172 players out of the millions of other players is in no way shape or form EVER a good sample to estimate the opinions of the player base.

What most players that enjoy the game do in their spare time: play the game and use the forums to figure out how to do something/optimize something. Most of them could care less about squeeky wheel threads about RNG is killing the game! Used to be a rare drop could sell for months worth of gold farming when everyone was just trying to save enough to get a flying mount. Dont recall people whining about rare drop boe epics RNG killing the game, they said, hey cool, grats you lucky bastard, hope I get one someday.

[Jinpachi]

What most players that enjoy the game do in their spare time: play the game and use the forums to figure out how to do something/optimize something. Most of them could care less about squeeky wheel threads about RNG is killing the game! Used to be a rare drop could sell for months worth of gold farming when everyone was just trying to save enough to get a flying mount. Dont recall people whining about rare drop boe epics RNG killing the game, they said, hey cool, grats you lucky bastard, hope I get one someday.

Exactly this. ^^^^^

[Kreeshak]

You're fucking stupid. 172 players out of the millions of other players is in no way shape or form EVER a good sample to estimate the opinions of the player base.

Rule number one on the internet: insult someone to win an argument.

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What most players that enjoy the game do in their spare time: play the game and use the forums to figure out how to do something/optimize something. Most of them could care less about squeeky wheel threads about RNG is killing the game! Used to be a rare drop could sell for months worth of gold farming when everyone was just trying to save enough to get a flying mount. Dont recall people whining about rare drop boe epics RNG killing the game, they said, hey cool, grats you lucky bastard, hope I get one someday.

This goes both ways:

While you claim most of the players care less about threads about RNG killing the game.

Someone can claim:

Most of the unsubscribers or those hesitant to subscribe don't care as well about threads about RNG killing the game.

What makes you think one argument is more valid than the other? Nothing but personal bias.

[Flutterguy]

The game was diablofied out the gate. Where do you think they got the talent tree system from?

[Deleted]

You're fucking stupid. 172 players out of the millions of other players is in no way shape or form EVER a good sample to estimate the opinions of the player base.

What you're overlooking is that the mmo champion sample is biased in the way only people really into the game would visit a website specialized in wow news. It shows that even amongst the people who are the most into wow, a very large majority don't enjoy them odern game design.

[Deleted]

You're fucking stupid. 172 players out of the millions of other players is in no way shape or form EVER a good sample to estimate the opinions of the player base.

I can't believe he just said 172 voters is a good sample.

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Rule number one on the internet: insult someone to win an argument.

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This goes both ways:

While you claim most of the players care less about threads about RNG killing the game.

Someone can claim:

Most of the unsubscribers or those hesitant to subscribe don't care as well about threads about RNG killing the game.

What makes you think one argument is more valid than the other? Nothing but personal bias.

Yeah..... and? I mean.... what do you think that other conclusion proves?

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What you're overlooking is that the mmo champion sample is biased in the way only people really into the game would visit a website specialized in wow news. It shows that even amongst the people who are the most into wow, a very large majority don't enjoy them odern game design.

A very large majority....

Pathetic.

[Deleted]

No you see... you REALLY don't get the point. It's not "if you don't get titanforged you're unlucky". That's not how the system was meant to be played. The system was meant to be "if you get titanforged you're lucky".
The problem, once again, is not with the system in place. The problem is you misunderstanding it BIG TIME.

The system is a problem if players take something for granted. If people expect you to have a higher item level to enter a dungeon because you technically can get a better proc from content below that dungeon, then yes, the system is FLAWED.

You are not understanding it.

[Deleted]

The system is a problem if players take something for granted. If people expect you to have a higher item level to enter a dungeon because you technically can get a better proc from content below that dungeon, then yes, the system is FLAWED.

You are not understanding it.

If people expect you to have tf gear they're idiots and they're also not understanding the system.
It's like me expect you to win the lotto before you can talk to me.

[Phlegethon]

"Dear Blizzard,

as a long time World of Warcraft customer, who was played this game for more than 12 years, I would like to make a statement that might surprise you.

I don't like Diablo 3! In fact, I don't like any of your current games, except for World of Warcraft. Starcraft 2, Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, Overwatch... All those games are completely uninteresting to me.

You know which of your games I dislike the most? That's right, Diablo 3, the game you are currently trying to mix with World of Warcraft for some reason! I never regretted buying one of your games more. Thinking back to Error 37 and the Real Money Auction House makes me sick to my stomach. Even apart from that, I don't like anything about Diablo 3. In my opinion, it's a pointless grinding game that I never want to go back to.

With all that said, I would like to ask you to reconsider the direction you are currently pushing World of Warcraft into. I always liked this game so much, because it was very different from your other games and other MMORPGs. It was always a very unique experience. To me, it feels like a gut punch that you keep shoehorning in all these elements from Diablo 3 and other games, as they feel completely misplaced here.

Diablo 3 is a game with a very low retention rate, while World of Warcraft is supposed to be a game with a very high retention rate. You know that Diablo 3 players will never stay with the game for very long because of the nature of the game, but World of Warcraft is a game that you want people to play for a long time, right? So naturally, the motivating elements of both these games should never be mixed. For example, insane amounts of RNG are meant for games with disposable characters that reach their progression ceilings after a short time, not for games in which you spent months or even years working towards improving a single character.

By adding all these unfitting elements from other games, World of Warcraft loses parts of it's own identity. When I play high level mythic plus dungeons and witness the wildly imbalanced affixes, I think of Diablo 3. When I have to grind hundreds of mythic plus dungeons to receive all the artifact power I need to max out a single weapon, I think of Diablo 3. When I witness all the grief and disappointment created by the unfair legendary system, I imagine a loud casino with all it's slot machine noises. Just keep playing until you eventually get lucky! When I look at the PvP prestige system, I think about Call of Duty. I never in my life would have imagined to think about Call of Duty while playing World of Warcraft! Do you really think there is a massive audience crossover here? I hope you don't!

There is so much else, but it has all been said and done often enough. I am very worried about the future of this game. With the approaching AP grind of patch 7.2, I am very concerned that my apathy towards the RNG based reward structure might eventually increase to an unbearable level. I might even burn out completely, especially since there won't be a lot of new content. Players who want to stay competetive will have to farm mostly the same old mythic plus dungeons over and over again, like they did since the beginning of the expansion.

Was this really what you had in mind when you created this expansion? Having people play the same dungeons hundreds, thousands of times, forcing competetitive raiders and even PvP players to do the same, even if they don't have interest in this activity? Wasn't there a promise before the launch of this expansion that players could CHOOSE what they want to do and always be rewarded fairly for it? What happened to that? You really think that raiders and PvP players receive fair amounts of AP compared to dungeoneers? Are you surprised that so many guilds are calling it quits and arena participation is at an all time low?

There was a time in this expansion when I had 80 people online on my friend list at prime times. This number has since dropped to 20. I have never witnessed such a steep decline in any expansion before. Nearly all of my friends have quit the game.

You know what almost all of them give as reasons for quitting? The RNG based reward structure and legendaries. The systems that you were so convinced would keep people motivated for a long time, are actually making people quit the game instead. At some point, the chances of improving a character further are so incredibly small, that it's not even worth trying anymore, but at that point the character is still far from being perfectly equipped. There is simply no way that any person will ever perfectly equip one of their characters with the Titanforging system in place. There will be no completion, ever. But starting an alt is also out of the question for many people, because they don't want to go through all the grinding and waiting again, only to have another character who's equipment will never be fully completed. There is no closure! The game will never finished, and sure enough, that's the reason why many players are finished with the game.

Blizzard, I hope you to take feedback very serious in these times. The completely random reward structure that doesn't take merit into account, the extremly unfair legendary system that is killing competitiveness in guilds and among friends, titanforging up to item level 925 with a socket and leech as bonus stat from heroic dungeons, grinding AP for months to be finished with just ONE artifact weapon, stop all this nonsense! Make World of Warcraft more like World of Warcraft again.

Thanks for reading.
Have a nice day."

by Keilen - https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615113696

Yawn.
The expac is the best one yet (imo). I've been playing since about the same time as you did.
And the prestige system, well obviously they got their mustard with COD, but that in -NO WAY- means they hope COD players will jump to WoW, it's rather stupid to think that... CoD or WoW pvp'ers don't really play for the "prestige system" but rather the prestige system gives them something to keep advancing. (oh and I don't pvp so it doesn't even apply to me...