Poll: Can a gif be a weapon?

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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/03/k...rest-made.html

    Guy sends an animated gif to an epileptic reporter and has now been hunted down and arrested by the FBI. Are assault memes protected by the first amendment? What's next? Arresting psychosomatic people when someone dies in a housefire.

    Please share your opinion
    I'm not sure strobe lights count as "speech". What was done was harmful, and intentionally so. This is not a free speech case. This case would be no different if the meme sender had used a tactical strobe flash light in the face of the victim. In either case, if it was known the person was epileptic, this is an open and shut case against the strobe sender.

  2. #142
    Im going to update the OP, it appears he was arrested for cyberstalking and NOT assault. So I would think if they thought they could get an assault conviction they would charge him with that.

  3. #143
    So if someone accidentally tweets something flashy that causes a lethal seizure, would that be involuntary manslaughter? Are you people crazy?

    If you have epilepsy you don't open images that have a tag "HOPE YOU GET A SEIZURE".

    It's like being allergic to peanuts and someone tossing you a jar of peanut butter with the words "HOPE YOU CHOKE" and you still bloody eat it.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Souls View Post
    Do you even know anything about the story? Or are you just one of those people who reads a headline and assumes you know everything there is to know?

    This isn't a case of someone posting an image and some other random person with epilepsy just happened to see it. This is a case of someone who deliberately targeted another individual who he knew had epilepsy, and was intentionally trying to cause a seizure. This is according to direct messages he sent to other Twitter users. He even speculated that the guy might die from a seizure caused by the image.



    Congratulations, that is one of the worst analogies I've ever seen on here. And that's saying a lot.

    Not sure if trolling. But i'll bite! The analogy works because mental conditions are just as real as physical conditions. Its 2017 after all. So, to purposefully exacerbate an inditiduals mental condition would be equal to purposefully triggering the seizure response in an epileptic.

    If we start punishing people for just showing someone a picture, it's going to be a slippery slope.

    Also, criminal intent exists only for cases of "wrongdoing". That is, doing something against the law. There is no existing law to stop people from displaying or transmitting digital images.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azidonis View Post
    Anyway, their egos, or "epeens" (electronic penises) aside, here are a few links that may help:

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Im going to update the OP, it appears he was arrested for cyberstalking and NOT assault. So I would think if they thought they could get an assault conviction they would charge him with that.
    Satimy, Dragonroar does knock down the imps on Mannoroth. You are dumb.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
    Not sure if trolling. But i'll bite! The analogy works because mental conditions are just as real as physical conditions. Its 2017 after all. So, to purposefully exacerbate an inditiduals mental condition would be equal to purposefully triggering the seizure response in an epileptic.
    No, it's an absolute shit analogy because sending someone a picture to make them upset doesn't directly cause them to commit suicide. Suicide is still a choice being made by the person committing it.

    Sending an image that was made solely for the purpose of causing seizures to someone with photosensitive epilepsy directly caused this person's seizure. The guy didn't choose to have a seizure, he had no control over it.

    Digital transmission of an image file is completely within U.S. law. Period.
    Did you pull this out of your ass, or do you actually have some basis for claiming this?

  7. #147
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    Did this gif actually caused a seizure? Shouldn't there be some kind of proof outside of "his wife typing from his account that he've got a seizure"? Just some points that seem fishy to me:
    1) She is using his account (no way to recognize one from another, could be him all along)
    2) There is no proof of him getting seizure from seeing a gif (which is kinda important thing when FBI is involved)
    3) Who would FBI get if this dude just happened to scroll through r/all and see a post from r/seizureiducinggifs ? (obvious exaggeration, but you get my point, there are plenty of content thrown away for everyone to see, i don't think that people who repost some shitty gif should be persecuted because someone got a seizure from scrolling through his feed and seeing that)
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Souls View Post
    No, it's an absolute shit analogy because sending someone a picture to make them upset doesn't directly cause them to commit suicide. Suicide is still a choice being made by the person committing it.

    Sending an image that was made solely for the purpose of causing seizures to someone with photosensitive epilepsy directly caused this person's seizure. The guy didn't choose to have a seizure, he had no control over it.



    Did you pull this out of your ass, or do you actually have some basis for claiming this?
    Using words like shit and ass really strengthens your argument. lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azidonis View Post
    Anyway, their egos, or "epeens" (electronic penises) aside, here are a few links that may help:

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    And regarding Jew_goldstein's information:
    "Eichenwald then said he would pursue legal action against the Twitter user, and later posted the legal papers filed in a Texas court of law seeking the information of the Twitter user from Twitter, though Eichenwald later withdrew the motion, saying he had found out the identity of the Twitter user through other means."
    And this part is what made me think that the guy who allegedly got seizure had no means to back it up or that it even happened and he just wanted to cause drama
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  10. #150
    Here's a few of comparisons.

    If I know where you live, and I know you're allergic to fish oil, and rub fish oil on your mail box so that when you open it, you come into contact with it and have an allergic reaction, I am trying to cause you injurty and should be prosecuted.

    If I know where you live an intentionally mess with the HVAC system in order to cause Carbon Monoxide build-up at night, then I am trying to kill you, and should be prosuected.

    Indirect assault is still assault.

    This guy should have the book thrown at him.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Did this gif actually caused a seizure? Shouldn't there be some kind of proof outside of "his wife typing from his account that he've got a seizure"? Just some points that seem fishy to me:
    1) She is using his account (no way to recognize one from another, could be him all along)
    2) There is no proof of him getting seizure from seeing a gif (which is kinda important thing when FBI is involved)
    3) Who would FBI get if this dude just happened to scroll through r/all and see a post from r/seizureiducinggifs ? (obvious exaggeration, but you get my point, there are plenty of content thrown away for everyone to see, i don't think that people who repost some shitty gif should be persecuted because someone got a seizure from scrolling through his feed and seeing that)
    I think your point about proving causality is good. There is no way to know if that specific gif caused the seizure. You'd have to have a video camera at an angle behind his head to show that the moment the gif appeared on the screen he began to convulse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azidonis View Post
    Anyway, their egos, or "epeens" (electronic penises) aside, here are a few links that may help:

  12. #152
    For those arguing that proof of harm must be established... look up the definitions of assault and cyberstalking in your jurisdictions then get back to me with your findings.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Here's a few of comparisons.

    If I know where you live, and I know you're allergic to fish oil, and rub fish oil on your mail box so that when you open it, you come into contact with it and have an allergic reaction, I am trying to cause you injurty and should be prosecuted.

    If I know where you live an intentionally mess with the HVAC system in order to cause Carbon Monoxide build-up at night, then I am trying to kill you, and should be prosuected.

    Indirect assault is still assault.

    This guy should have the book thrown at him.
    Nope. The difference is proof of causality. In the case of the air conditioner, it will be clear that the bodies were poisoned by carbon monoxide. That's causality.

    In the epilepsy case, you cannot prove it was caused by that particular gif.

    In the fish oil case, you really wouldn't have a case except for maybe property damage. There aren't any laws about applying non toxic substances to mailboxes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azidonis View Post
    Anyway, their egos, or "epeens" (electronic penises) aside, here are a few links that may help:

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
    Nope. The difference is proof of causality. In the case of the air conditioner, it will be clear that the bodies were poisoned by carbon monoxide. That's causality.

    In the epilepsy case, you cannot prove it was caused by that particular gif.

    In the fish oil case, you really wouldn't have a case except for maybe property damage. There aren't any laws about applying non toxic substances to mailboxes.
    Simple enough:

    He provides proof he had a seizure (ERcrecords)
    He provides proof that that gif was the only one like it in his feed (get records from twitter)
    He provides proof strobe lighting causes seizures in photo sensitive people (provides research done by others)
    Get an expert to testify why the gif is strobing and not just a normal random gif

    Voila

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Simple enough:

    He provides proof he had a seizure (ERcrecords)
    He provides proof that that gif was the only one like it in his feed (get records from twitter)
    He provides proof strobe lighting causes seizures in photo sensitive people (provides research done by others)
    Get an expert to testify why the gif is strobing and not just a normal random gif

    Voila
    He will also need records from twitter than he actually saw this gif that at least that it appeared on his screen and was tagged as watched) and from google that at the same time his phones gyroscope went crazy.
    Also he would have to provide evidence that his seizure was caused by gif, not by something else and gif just happened to be there.

    It's not as easy to prove causation as you make it to
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  16. #156
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    He will also need records from twitter than he actually saw this gif and from google that at the same time his phones gyroscope went crazy.
    Also he would have to provide evidence that his seizure was caused by gif, not by something else and gif just happened to be there.

    It's not as easy to prove causation as you make it to
    Provide records that his seizures are triggered by photo stuff, instead of anything else. If he has records that show most of his seizures come form photo stuff, that provides enough plausible evidence that he could have had a seizure form that. If he has additional things that trigger it, then provide proof that none of those triggers were going on at the time

    and the closest you're gonna get to proof he saw it is a time stamp of when he was on the internet.

    Just remember in criminal court, its beyond reasonable doubt to find someone guilty, not no doubt at all.
    Last edited by Crissi; 2017-03-20 at 07:17 AM.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Provide records that his seizures are triggered by photo stuff, instead of anything else. If he has records that show most of his seizures come form photo stuff, that provides enough plausible evidence that he could have had a seizure form that.

    and the closest you're gonna get to proof he saw it is a time stamp of when he was on the internet.

    Just remember in criminal court, its reasonable doubt to find someone innocent, not no doubt at all.
    It's already too many "ifs" for a discussion, at this point we just imagine things.
    With given information we can't (and shouldn't) conclude anything, and i see no reason to believe neither person A, who allegedly got seizure and extra coverage off that, neither person B, who was dumb enough to try to reach someone like that and allegedly got caught or something. It's just twitter posts that somehow got on news, which shouldn't happen in the first place.
    If they wanted to make it actual news - they would at least interview both parties (since person A already have persons B identity).
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  18. #158
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    It's already too many "ifs" for a discussion, at this point we just imagine things.
    With given information we can't (and shouldn't) conclude anything, and i see no reason to believe neither person A, who allegedly got seizure and extra coverage off that, neither person B, who was dumb enough to try to reach someone like that and allegedly got caught or something. It's just twitter posts that somehow got on news, which shouldn't happen in the first place.
    If they wanted to make it actual news - they would at least interview both parties (since person A already have persons B identity).
    True, just saying that its not all that hard to proove his seizure was caused by the gif.

    either way, we do know the sender sent it with ill intent (why else would you send a photo sensitive person a strobing gif with the words "you deserve to have a seizure"? Yes, you can troll with ill intent). Cyber stalking is a bit weird, but maybe that's how they could get a guaranteed charge since I think cyber stalking includes harassment / intend to harm over the internet.

    Oh, here's the law. Seems to fit the law fine: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...E.42.htm#42.07

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Simple enough:

    He provides proof he had a seizure (ERcrecords)
    He provides proof that that gif was the only one like it in his feed (get records from twitter)
    He provides proof strobe lighting causes seizures in photo sensitive people (provides research done by others)
    Get an expert to testify why the gif is strobing and not just a normal random gif

    Voila
    Thats nothing but probable cause for arrest. Youd have to satisfy the criminal court requirement of proof beyond reasonabld doubt in order to convict this guy. I mean, can you prove that not a single TV in his house had any flashing images on them whatsoever during that time period?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    True, just saying that its not all that hard to proove his seizure was caused by the gif.

    either way, we do know the sender sent it with ill intent (why else would you send a photo sensitive person a strobing gif with the words "you deserve to have a seizure"? Yes, you can troll with ill intent). Cyber stalking is a bit weird, but maybe that's how they could get a guaranteed charge since I think cyber stalking includes harassment / intend to harm over the internet.

    Oh, here's the law. Seems to fit the law fine: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...E.42.htm#42.07
    Even under that TX law, it requires one to send "repeated electronic communications" to fall under harrassment. A single gif doesn't satisfy that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azidonis View Post
    Anyway, their egos, or "epeens" (electronic penises) aside, here are a few links that may help:

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    Satimy, Dragonroar does knock down the imps on Mannoroth. You are dumb.
    That wasn't dragon roar Jimmy

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Simple enough:

    He provides proof he had a seizure (ERcrecords)
    He provides proof that that gif was the only one like it in his feed (get records from twitter)
    He provides proof strobe lighting causes seizures in photo sensitive people (provides research done by others)
    Get an expert to testify why the gif is strobing and not just a normal random gif

    Voila
    Again he wasn't charged with assault, he was charged with cyber stalking. Kurt probably has some connections at the FBI and is just fucking with the kid

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