[Megathread] Mass Effect Andromeda

[Video Games]

Opinion.



Fact. But as to whether this turned them "bad" or not, that's still opinion.



Opinion.

Opinion. Manveer is just A writer, not THE writer. The game has like 20 people writing both for the general plot as well as the individual story arcs. For example, Mass Effect 3 had 4 different people writing each of the acts (one wrote the genophage arc, another wrote the geth war arc, another wrote Citadel, etc)



Opinion. He's a developer NOT a writer and even if he was, he'd be just a writer, whether you think he's bad or not, is still an opinion.



Opinion. She's just a writer, whether you think she's bad or not is still an opinion.



Opinion. I've been hearing differing accounts regarding this. There are no "facts" being thrown around.



Opinion. The game has its fans and its haters.



Given that you only gave one fact in that list, you must be very tired indeed.

Here, lemme show you the difference between opinions and facts:

Fact

"BioWare is a video game developer studio, located in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. It was founded in February 1995 by newly graduated medical doctors Ray Muzyka, Greg Zeschuk, and Augustine Yip. In 2010 it had roughly 800 employees".

Opinion

"Bioware is the greatest videogame developer of all times, and everything they make is awesome."

Fact

"Bioware develops primarily Roleplaying Videogames as their main genre."

Opinion

"Bioware does nothing but pander to tumblr, and is a festering nest of SJWs, fat feminazis, gaylord faggots, and whored themselves out since EA bought them."

There. Clear enough? Here, lemme give you a last one:

Fact:

"The Last Airbender had a poor reception at the box office, and was nominated for a Golden Raspberry Award for "Worst Picture of 2010", which won against several contenders."

Opinion:

"The Last Airbender is the worst movie of all times, and is objectively bad and anyone who likes it is because they're idiots who have poor taste and like eating shit".

See the difference?

Well no because saying "that's just your opinion" is a lazy cop out for criticism of which you haven't refuted a single thing I've even said. How about you tell me why I'm wrong first.

How is it terribly written, its not......... its supposed to come off as cheesy/silly/cute. Here is the whole video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgFHIR7lLC0
Ryder hits on her, it goes over Suvi's head, the player has the option to be direct about Sara's romantic intentions or be more subtle, the player chose the direct route. it was a player choice, irl if you blatantly start telling someone you have romantic feelings for them in public it will get awkward.

Yes, I watched it. It's poorly written because it sounds like a 13 year old, not a 22 year old and not to mention the voice acting for that scene is bad. Like really, piloting thing? No grown woman talks like this and this game is suppose to be for adults? Also it's not very public since I doubt there's more than 4 people on the bridge.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Fact:

The company's founders left Bioware FIFU

What you posited was an opinion. There were originally 3 founders all doctors, one left in 97. The other two left in 2012, one to develop craft beers and one to a medical/tech investing thing. They already went from Mds to video game developers, these are guys who can afford to, and do, whatever they want.

[Derah]

Well no because saying "that's just your opinion" is a lazy cop out for criticism

Nope, its a way of flatly countering people who present obvious opinions as if they were facts.

of which you haven't refuted a single thing I've even said.

Yes I did. Everything you said (except for the EA Buyout) was an opinion, not a fact.

How about you tell me why I'm wrong first.

I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm saying that your statement of "Its a fact that Bioware is a bad company since EA bought them" is an opinion. Not a fact. I disagree with your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

With Subjective topics (Movie X is good/bad, Chocolate is tasty/disgusting, Book Y is a masterpiece/piece of shit), nobody is right or wrong. People are only right or wrong with Objective topics. (Fire is hot, Ice is Cold, Iron is hard, Cotton is soft)

You say that its a fact Manveer Heir is a shitty writer, and I'll say you're wrong, because he's not a writer, he's a game developer and has no involvement in the game's writing.

You say that its a fact that David Gaider is a shitty writer, and I'll say, that's your opinion, not a fact. That's not the same as saying that you're wrong. You don't like what he writes, and that's fair enough, but don't go presenting that opinion as if it was an objective cold hard fact.

"2+2 = 4" is a fact.

"Apples are the tastiest fruit in the world" is an opinion.

if you say "2+2 = 5" THEN I'll say you're wrong.

If you say "Apples are the most disgusting fruit in the planet", I wont say you're wrong, just that I disagree with you.

Because that's the key difference. Opinions can be agreed with, or disagreed with. Facts don't work that way. 2+2 will ALWAYS be 4. There's no agreement or disagreement there. Whereas apples can be enjoyed by some, and hated by others.

- - - Updated - - -

HAHAHAHA. Ok. So you're just delusional then.

I'll just leave you to your fantasy world of revisionist history.

Ohh the irony. You call "me" revisionist, but then YOU are the one injecting YOUR opinion on why the doctors left.

The doctors left to pursue other interests. You say they left because they felt unsatisfied with the direction the company was taking.

But I'm the revisionist.

Ohh the irony.

[MonsieuRoberts]

Derah you can't argue with idiots, they have way more experience at that than you.

Can't we just get back to having mixed feelings about FemRyder's face?

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Come on, that's just terrible even with the extended context attached to it. The problem is you kids grew up with Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey as the pinnacle of literature, and Miley Cyrus as excellent poetry. You've got no standards, and it's starting to show in these type of games because the developers actually understand their shallow audience.

The only shallowness I see here is in your comment.

It's ok to dislike something, but your opinion is not an objective measure. Quite frankly it's astounding to see a comment like this when there's plenty to criticize about the game other than this.

Plus I'm not part of the Miley generation, thank you very much.

[Sunseeker]

The only shallowness I see here is in your comment.

It's ok to dislike something, but your opinion is not an objective measure. Quite frankly it's astounding to see a comment like this when there's plenty to criticize about the game other than this.

Plus I'm not part of the Miley generation, thank you very much.

Not that it matters if we said so. My mom raised me on the Beatles and my dad is a Baroque fan and a student of classical literature. We could give any defense in the world. Suffice to say their purpose here is to insult and demean us because our opinions are different from theirs. Just add them to your ignore list and move on.

[MonsieuRoberts]

[Derah]

Derah you can't argue with idiots, they have way more experience at that than you.

I should know better...... but that's one of my pet peeves...... when someone presents a clear opinion as if it was a fact. I don't mind people having opinions different than mine, so long as they can admit that its just that, an opinion.

Can't we just get back to having mixed feelings about FemRyder's face?

I've had quite a lot of feelings about that face. First I was neutral about it (neither hated it, nor loved it). Then I liked it. Now that I've seen it in action, I feel really crepped out by it (the unnatural way she just SMILES and holds that empty soulless gaze) so I'm on the opposite side of the pendulum.

Thankfully, for me that's a non-issue because I never play with default faces anyways. Its a personal preference of mine that in any game that allows character customization I will NE-VER play with the default face. A character is not really "mine" unless I make it myself.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Not that it matters if we said so. My mom raised me on the Beatles and my dad is a Baroque fan and a student of classical literature. We could give any defense in the world. Suffice to say their purpose here is to insult and demean us because our opinions are different from theirs. Just add them to your ignore list and move on.

It's incredibly sad when video games becomes political battlegrounds. I wish it'd be fine with people to accept that something you may like, even though they themselves may dislike it, can still be accepted as enjoyable.

[MonsieuRoberts]

Thankfully, for me that's a non-issue because I never play with default faces anyways. Its a personal preference of mine that in any game that allows character customization I will NE-VER play with the default face. A character is not really "mine" unless I make it myself.

I agree, but I wouldn't mind having that revamped french FemRyder face to use as a template.

But we can't even do that, can we...use the default Ryder as a template to change on our own? That's what I usually do. :/

[Derah]

I agree, but I wouldn't mind having that revamped french FemRyder face to use as a template.

But we can't even do that, can we...use the default Ryder as a template to change on our own? That's what I usually do. :/

We cannot. The default faces can't be modified at all. And the customizable presets are barely customizable at all. The most you can change is hair, hair color, eye color, facial hair for male characters, tattoos, scars, and skin color. You can slightly modify some minor details like eye positioning, and mouth size, nose size etc, but the faces remain in the basic shape they are. This character creator is about as deep and detailed as Wow's character creator. Which is a bloody shame, because I was truly and really impressed with the char-creator in Inquisition.

And yes, I agree that it would be nice if we could take the default, and then modify that to our own preferences. But we've never been able to do that in a Mass Effect game. In the original trilogy, there was a default face for male and female shepard, and it was impossible to change, if you wanted to edit something, it would bring you to the custom faces.

It would be nice if they could follow the route of Fallout 4. That game had a default face for the male and female player, as well as several presets, but you could modify any of them to your heart's content, including the default.

[Video Games]

Nope, its a way of flatly countering people who present obvious opinions as if they were facts.



Yes I did. Everything you said (except for the EA Buyout) was an opinion, not a fact.



I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm saying that your statement of "Its a fact that Bioware is a bad company since EA bought them" is an opinion. Not a fact. I disagree with your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

With Subjective topics (Movie X is good/bad, Chocolate is tasty/disgusting, Book Y is a masterpiece/piece of shit), nobody is right or wrong. People are only right or wrong with Objective topics. (Fire is hot, Ice is Cold, Iron is hard, Cotton is soft)

You say that its a fact Manveer Heir is a shitty writer, and I'll say you're wrong, because he's not a writer, he's a game developer and has no involvement in the game's writing.

You say that its a fact that David Gaider is a shitty writer, and I'll say, that's your opinion, not a fact. That's not the same as saying that you're wrong. You don't like what he writes, and that's fair enough, but don't go presenting that opinion as if it was an objective cold hard fact.

"2+2 = 4" is a fact.

"Apples are the tastiest fruit in the world" is an opinion.

if you say "2+2 = 5" THEN I'll say you're wrong.

If you say "Apples are the most disgusting fruit in the planet", I wont say you're wrong, just that I disagree with you.

Because that's the key difference. Opinions can be agreed with, or disagreed with. Facts don't work that way. 2+2 will ALWAYS be 4. There's no agreement or disagreement there. Whereas apples can be enjoyed by some, and hated by others.

- - - Updated - - -



Ohh the irony. You call "me" revisionist, but then YOU are the one injecting YOUR opinion on why the doctors left.

The doctors left to pursue other interests. You say they left because they felt unsatisfied with the direction the company was taking.

But I'm the revisionist.

Ohh the irony.

Yeah I got one thing wrong about that now ex-bioware dude, cool. Ya got me!

"You say that its a fact that David Gaider is a shitty writer, and I'll say, that's your opinion, not a fact. That's not the same as saying that you're wrong. You don't like what he writes, and that's fair enough, but don't go presenting that opinion as if it was an objective cold hard fact."

I will because that is objectively bad writing. I mean I see what you're trying to say here, but considering my time investment in this industry compared to yours, I know a thing or two about games (hence the user name). You don't see me going into other hobby threads for a reason.

[zealo]

For the record the lead writer of Andromeda for much of the production weren't manveer heir, but Chris Schlerf.

If you want to accuse someone of being an outspoken racist, at least target the right person.

[Derah]

I will because that is objectively bad writing.

There is no such thing as "objectively bad writing". Good and Bad are subjective concepts, beholden to personal taste and preference. What some people can call good, others can call bad.

You can't say Chocolate is objectively bad. Some people like chocolate. Some people hate it. Even Stephanie Meyer's writing can't be called objectively bad. Sure, I hate with a fiery passion everything she writes, but what she writes, is enjoyed by some, and hated by some. It doesn't even matter who is the majority. If the majority of the readers hated it, that still doesn't make it bad writing. It simply means the books found a small audience. You can call them poorly successful, but "OBJECTIVELY BAD"? nope.

I mean I see what you're trying to say here, but considering my time investment in this industry compared to yours, I know a thing or two about games

So what you're saying is "My opinion is more valid than yours". That's not how opinions work bud.

I know shit about art. I don't have any art majors. I have never studied painting techniques. I have no clue what cubism is. I can't even draw a house made of sticks without the sticks being horribly bent.

But if a big shot Art Critic with 5 post-grades in Artistic Design, who developed sixteen different drawing techniques says that this painting is the greatest painting ever made in the history of art, and I say that The Mona Lisa is the greatest painting made in the history of art, neither of us are in the wrong. He has his opinion and I have mine.

Whether my opinion or his is better received by others due to our different backgrounds is a different matter. Me being an ignorant plebe who knows shit about art, obviously not many art connoisseurs will agree with me. But that doesn't make my opinion any more valid or invalid as that of the critic.

You have an opinion. You can say that you have a long background in videogame analysis , you can even say that you've made a career out of analyzing videogames, but none of those things will make your opinion more valid than mine, or turn your opinion into a fact. Sure, you can brag that more people agree with you than with me, and that's fair, but its still an opinion. Not a fact. (note that this also works in reverse, my opinion isn't more valid than yours either. The difference is that I'm not trying to paint my opinion as a fact)

In your opinion, Bioware has become a poor company following the EA buyout. In your opinion, there's several things in Andromeda that are making you reconsider buying it. And both of those are fair enough opinions. I don't agree with either, but hey, its your prerogative. But don't go toting those opinions as if they were hard-coded stone cold indisputable facts.

They're not.

[Jastall]

For the record the lead writer of Andromeda for much of the production weren't manveer heir, but Chris Schlerf.

If you want to accuse someone of being an outspoken racist, at least target the right person.

That's the thing, he was never a writer, but a gameplay person (level designer, if memory serves). So blaming any perceived writing deficiencies (or SJWness or whatever the cool kids on the internet use these days) on him would be completely uninformed.

And while Heir is a total douche who deserves any hatred he gets, the people who target him are often those who also targeted Helper and that other lead-animator-but-not-really woman for much less justifiable reasons. There are people out there with an axe to grind against Bioware, and they will use personal attacks if they get the chance to vent their feelings. They're just waiting for the next scapegoat that the 4chan-led bandwagon points them at.

Also, c'mon Greenmangaming. I'm going to bed now, and I want my stupid key when I wake up. I want to preload the game then use a VPN to unlock it before the 21st.

[Witchblade77]

We cannot. The default faces can't be modified at all. And the customizable presets are barely customizable at all. The most you can change is hair, hair color, eye color, facial hair for male characters, tattoos, scars, and skin color. You can slightly modify some minor details like eye positioning, and mouth size, nose size etc, but the faces remain in the basic shape they are. This character creator is about as deep and detailed as Wow's character creator. Which is a bloody shame, because I was truly and really impressed with the char-creator in Inquisition.

And yes, I agree that it would be nice if we could take the default, and then modify that to our own preferences. But we've never been able to do that in a Mass Effect game. In the original trilogy, there was a default face for male and female shepard, and it was impossible to change, if you wanted to edit something, it would bring you to the custom faces.

It would be nice if they could follow the route of Fallout 4. That game had a default face for the male and female player, as well as several presets, but you could modify any of them to your heart's content, including the default.

I would have been happy if they kept DAI character designer, that while not without its issues, at least allowed for a MUCH larger degree of customization :/ hell, I'd be happy with character designer from previous mass effects where you could at least combine different facial structures with your choice of eyes, eyebrows, noses and lips :/

that said, I'm pretty sure there is such thing as objectively bad writing :P 50 shade of gray does come to mind. or My immortal.

[Derah]

that said, I'm pretty sure there is such thing as objectively bad writing :P 50 shade of gray does come to mind.

As much as it pains me to say it........ no, that book is also not objectively bad. I hate it, for reasons far too long to list here, but whether we like it or not, the book has its audience.

For me, the book is shit. For you, the book is shit. That makes it a subjectively bad book. Neither you, nor I enjoy it. In fact, there's plenty of other people like us who also never enjoyed it. But there's also quite a few millions who DID enjoy it. So it can't be objectively bad.

Getting shot is objectively bad. I've been shot, I didn't like it. Plenty of other people have been shot, they didn't like it. I don't think there's a single person in the history of humanity that can say "man, I can't wait to get shot again, that was SO awesome".

[May90]

Still trying to decide starting training , im leaving vanguard shit to Sara for the badassness of a tiny women punching things in the sky. Leader is out as shield drain is terrible in the starting mission. Security seems attractive for early access to turbocharge, especially on insanity where you burn through ammo. Judging by the trail ammoless Remnant guns wont be easy to find early. Concussive shot inst a bad starting skill either, especially with all the cliffs on the intro map. Biotic for stating off with pull and early access to singularity. Engineer starts with overload, atlest its not as bad as shield drain, overload actually stuns organics. not really feeling infiltrators tactical cloak rightnow.

Infiltrator has always been my favorite class in ME: ever since I did one playthrough of the trilogy with Infiltrator, I could never bring myself to start the trilogy with another class. My next playthrough will likely be Vanguard, it is the only class (beside Sentinel, but that one sounds pretty boring) I haven't played the entire trilogy with yet, and it sounds like a lot of fun.

I will because that is objectively bad writing. I mean I see what you're trying to say here, but considering my time investment in this industry compared to yours, I know a thing or two about games (hence the user name). You don't see me going into other hobby threads for a reason.

Sounds like your time investment didn't pay off, if you seriously use self-contradicting terms such as "objectively bad writing". Also whining in every game thread about how devs and the game sucks, but you still are going to play it "for research purposes", makes it look like you just have some life issues.

[Skorpionss]

Crappy consoles have crappy performance. Wrong thread?

While I also think that is true, the game is shit optimized on PC too... At least compared to Battlfield 1 for example, where I can reach a steady 60 fps on 4k full ultra, High FXAA... In ME:A I struggle to reach 50fps(if I look down at the ground), but mostly hovers in the 30fps area, with drops to 25 or lower...

[Video Games]

There is no such thing as "objectively bad writing". Good and Bad are subjective concepts, beholden to personal taste and preference. What some people can call good, others can call bad.

You can't say Chocolate is objectively bad. Some people like chocolate. Some people hate it. Even Stephanie Meyer's writing can't be called objectively bad. Sure, I hate with a fiery passion everything she writes, but what she writes, is enjoyed by some, and hated by some. It doesn't even matter who is the majority. If the majority of the readers hated it, that still doesn't make it bad writing. It simply means the books found a small audience. You can call them poorly successful, but "OBJECTIVELY BAD"? nope.



So what you're saying is "My opinion is more valid than yours". That's not how opinions work bud.

I know shit about art. I don't have any art majors. I have never studied painting techniques. I have no clue what cubism is. I can't even draw a house made of sticks without the sticks being horribly bent.

But if a big shot Art Critic with 5 post-grades in Artistic Design, who developed sixteen different drawing techniques says that this painting is the greatest painting ever made in the history of art, and I say that The Mona Lisa is the greatest painting made in the history of art, neither of us are in the wrong. He has his opinion and I have mine.

Whether my opinion or his is better received by others due to our different backgrounds is a different matter. Me being an ignorant plebe who knows shit about art, obviously not many art connoisseurs will agree with me. But that doesn't make my opinion any more valid or invalid as that of the critic.

You have an opinion. You can say that you have a long background in videogame analysis , you can even say that you've made a career out of analyzing videogames, but none of those things will make your opinion more valid than mine, or turn your opinion into a fact. Sure, you can brag that more people agree with you than with me, and that's fair, but its still an opinion. Not a fact. (note that this also works in reverse, my opinion isn't more valid than yours either. The difference is that I'm not trying to paint my opinion as a fact)

In your opinion, Bioware has become a poor company following the EA buyout. In your opinion, there's several things in Andromeda that are making you reconsider buying it. And both of those are fair enough opinions. I don't agree with either, but hey, its your prerogative. But don't go toting those opinions as if they were hard-coded stone cold indisputable facts.

They're not.

I know as much as an expert - the post. You don't and you can't hide behind your opinion because you're afraid of being wrong. If I had to write a story for a class and I kept retconning my story, I would get an f brcause it would be fucking shit.

Just accept that i know more about the industry than you do or at least have a conversation with me as to why I'm wrong. And I extend that invitation to anybody because it's really hard to have an actual video game discussion on this site.

Sounds like your time investment didn't pay off, if you seriously use self-contradicting terms such as "objectively bad writing". Also whining in every game thread about how devs and the game sucks, but you still are going to play it "for research purposes", makes it look like you just have some life issues.

What? Que? 何？I haven't whined in any game thread. I gave facts on why zelda is a not very cohesive game because the systems actively work against you. 1 game. How about my vocal love for nier? A game I loved so much and yet I can tell you all of its long list of flaws. But uh yeah, heaven forbid I get really active in my hobby, eh?

You don't know the difference between fact and opinion, probably time to revisit what you learned in middles school.

Well that's just your opinion dood. You may want to learn some people know way more about a subject than you do. Go ahead and call me out when I say a game is bad without saying why, which I haven't because I haven't played it (yet?).