Refuge/Immigrant Crisis 2.0

[Noradin]

I know Turkey has a lot of refugees, but couldn't Europe just close their borders to Turkey and prevent more from coming over?

The borders are at sea.

[Deianeira]

Alright. You seem to be determined to put me in some manner of labeled box for easy categorization. You're wrong! I've got my reasons for saying you're wrong, and mango, I've seen my share of shit in life. You're still wrong at this point - and here's mine - people who actually have had hardship in their life will not take unnecessary risks. These are desperate people, and boy, they are desperate for the wrong reasons. Desperate because they live in squalor, and desperate for promises (and these are things that have been promised to them by their local figureheads and communities on OUR behalf, BTW) they have no right to be given because those promises are based on US sacrificing our futures for theirs. When they either should have been building their own or displacing those in power preventing them from making their own way in life.

You are only here to demand us make way for others. We refuse. We will not be cowed by emotional manipulation, and you're being a cow here.

Excuse me but HOW the fck do you know for what reasons they are desperate and what risk they deem necessary to take because of them?

[Deleted]

Excuse me but HOW the fck do you know for what reasons they are desperate and what risk they deem necessary to take because of them?

You don't know they're desperate. We don't know that. All we have is their word of mouth. I also won't comment on what makes illiterate hairy brownies gang up on leaky dinghies, or sink their own leaky little dinghies at the first sign of someone else picking up and fixing their shit.

All I'm going to say that if you can't see the writing on the wall you're going to be thrown to the wolves when these people start causing havoc. We're not going to take kindly the useful idiots of yesteryear.

[Flarelaine]

There exists such things as boats, rafts, and ships.

Yes, but the distances they need to cross now are laughable and they use the flimsyest of rubber dinghies. The stuff needed to cross the Aegean to, say, Samothrake, would probably be one step up from those.

[Deleted]

Okay...?

10chars

Okay what? You said that we should decline their applications if we don't consider them to be refugees. We did. The issue is not us, but commies babbling about "solidarity" and "sanctions" even though we didn't break a single fucking rule. It's the EU that's breaking the rules, not us.

We have some experience with this bullying, believe me. When we said "no" to Greek bailout they were babbling again, because that's all these incompetent clowns can do. Our government collapsed because of it. And again it was the EU breaking the rules, NOT US. So, to the EU - fuck off with solidarity and some other made-up shit. We didn't sign up for YOUR solidarity. We didn't agree with bailing out GERMAN banks and we won't solve GERMAN problems now.

[Deianeira]

You are safe at that point. EU seem to considers Turkey to be safe too or they wouldn't have made the deal with Turkey. I see no reason to distrust them.

And EU would be wrong which has been said numerous times in an abundance of articles during 2015-2016 if you just bothered to look it up. And before you complain that "EU have said it is safe" EU said it was safe because they needed help to take care of the refugees they could not take themselves so they asked Turkey to shelter them according to international law. And you know since Turkey probably said "yes we will" and there was a timesensitive issue they said it was safe. When human rights organisations and help organisations have been onsite in Turkey they have seen that this is not the case. I mean when Greece sent back refugees they could not recieve Turkey had place for 200k people and they had millions of refugees! You think that makes it safe?

[skitzin]

Greece was constantly requesting more trained staff from Frontex and the EU throughout 2015 and early 2016. I mean don't send money, it will be lost in corrupt governance. But trained staff that can handle these issues is far more valuable and most importantly can stay completely under EU control (the EU can hire them, the EU can pay them and they can simply keep Greece in the loop). The issue is the commitments back then were largely token numbers.

Well that's what I mean by "appropairate investments". Basically throwing around money is not going to produce results. And I agree that more personel would be part of the path forward for managing the situation.

Other things I would include are policy based around language, benefits, locations, resettlement back home in secured areas etc to ensure that those coming across are in serious need to do so rather than those taking do so for convenience. Because I honestly feel like quite a few are simply jumping ship because it's easier rather than they down right need to.

In essence with some serious and followed through commitments, I believe the EU could do an effective job of stopping the influx and managing those who the EU deems to be in genuine need.

[Deianeira]

Takes some serious mental gymnastics to say that I was born with a silver spoon when we didn't have food on the table all days of the week and our home wasn't weather-proof.

If you didnt have food on the table all days of the week i question how you managed to get tickets to get to US?

[Mayhem]

Okay what? You said that we should decline their applications if we don't consider them to be refugees. We did. The issue is not us, but commies babbling about "solidarity" and "sanctions" even though we didn't break a single fucking rule. It's the EU that's breaking the rules, not us.

We have some experience with this bullying, believe me. When we said "no" to Greek bailout they were babbling again, because that's all these incompetent clowns can do. Our government collapsed because of it. And again it was the EU breaking the rules, NOT US. So, to the EU - fuck off with solidarity and some other made-up shit. We didn't sign up for YOUR solidarity. We didn't agree with bailing out GERMAN banks and we won't solve GERMAN problems now.

And where from are you again?

[Forogil]

I think your timeline is a bit off.

Hungary started to erect a fence in mid july, because of the unprecedented flow of refugees. Germany suspended the dublin-treaty for syrian refugees only, not as a whole.

Well, I simplified and might have missed some of the development - but I don't see how that changes it significantly.

The eastern route wasn't blocked immediately when Hungary began erecting fences in July - and the treaty-suspension can still have acted as a pull-factor - even if it only were for Syrians.
However, the main point is that both Germany and Hungary now have border controls - and Germany and Greece are following Dublin - thus making a repeat of 2015 unlikely even if Erdogan tries to open the flood of refugees.

[Mayhem]

Well, I simplified and might have missed some of the development - but I don't see how that changes it significantly.

The eastern route wasn't blocked immediately when Hungary began erecting fences in July - and the treaty-suspension can still have acted as a pull-factor - even if it only were for Syrians.
However, the main point is that both Germany and Hungary now have border controls - and Germany and Greece are following Dublin - thus making a repeat of 2015 unlikely even if Erdogan tries to open the flood of refugees.

Yeah, but suddenly it becomes a lot more if and maybe instead of for sure and i´m certain.

[Deleted]

And where from are you again?

Remind me again, why does it matter? Aren't all "eastern" countries in the similar situation?

[Mayhem]

Remind me again, why does it matter? Aren't all "eastern" countries in the similar situation?

As you´re not into backing up anything you write i wanted to do it myself.

[Deleted]

As you´re not into backing up anything you write i wanted to do it myself.

It wouldn't be hard to find a country refusing the so called "refugees" and forced quotas. There's like 4 of them in Europe in total.
And it would be even easier to find a country whose government collapsed because it refused to support Greek bailout.

So, Slovakia. Have fun, not sure what you're going to do with it.

[Mayhem]

It wouldn't be hard to find a country refusing the so called "refugees" and forced quotas. There's like 4 of them in Europe in total.
And it would be even easier to find a country whose government collapsed because it refused to support Greek bailout.

So, Slovakia. Have fun, not sure what you're going to do with it.

I told you, i want to verify what you´ve claimed.

[Noradin]

Remind me again, why does it matter? Aren't all "eastern" countries in the similar situation?

You probably live in Kazakhstan, that is "eastern", right?

[Deleted]

You probably live in Kazakhstan, that is "eastern", right?

Nah, even Czech Republic is "eastern" to some people. And then again, others are saying that Central Europe doesn't really exist.

[Noradin]

Nah, even Czech Republic is "eastern" to some people. And then again, others are saying that Central Europe doesn't really exist.

Even Portugal is "eastern" to some people.
That is because the Earth is a globe.
So which "eastern" is it?

[Deleted]

Even Portugal is "eastern" to some people.
That is because the Earth is a globe.
So which "eastern" is it?

Really, are you going to argue about this on an Eurocentric board? Isn't it likely that I'm talking about Eastern Europe? Is East Asia part of the EU? Do they have ANY problems with "immigrants"?

Jesus...

[Mayhem]

We have some experience with this bullying, believe me. When we said "no" to Greek bailout they were babbling again, because that's all these incompetent clowns can do. Our government collapsed because of it. And again it was the EU breaking the rules, NOT US. So, to the EU - fuck off with solidarity and some other made-up shit. We didn't sign up for YOUR solidarity. We didn't agree with bailing out GERMAN banks and we won't solve GERMAN problems now.

So i have yet to find anything relating the rejection of applicants who aren´t considered refugees. This isn´t about the ~800 refugees that should´ve been relocated to slovakia, right?

Anyway, the NO vote in your parlament caused the collapse of your government, nothing to do with the EU, furthermore, slovakia was a full member of EFSF since dez. 2010 roughly a year prior to the bail-out of greece and other countries (!!). I mean, you become a member of an institution and then don´t want to follow what they do? And the ECJ ruled on this and the EU did not break any rules.