Blizzard have effectively gotten rid of flying

[WowIsDead64]

In this thread I have heard that people don't like to quest and want to make it the shortest experience as they can. This include world quests. Isn't the content itself where the problem then lies for you? What would you fix about that type of content to make it fun? Because flight still does not change the content, it just makes it a little quicker.

I complete full Tanaan (except throne) every day. I've been doing it for about a year. And there hasn't been such day, when I haven't been asking myself this question - "How would I do this content without flying?". And answer is always the same - I wouldn't. Flaw is always the same - I have to do full daily content. Just because it's mandatory. If I wouldn't do something today - I would fall behind forever, cuz there are no catch up mechanisms, that would allow me to do extra content on some other day, when I would have more free time, like Saturday or Sunday.

And there are many factors, that affect time, needed to complete content + there are factors, that affect accessibility of content. Yeah, when I play Retri Paladin or Blood DK and have overgear - I can just perform chainpull+AOE-fests or even simply kill elite mobs solely. But when I play Mage in quest greens - I have to rely more on quest items, cuz I'm way too weak to kill mobs effectively enough and fat/elite mobs are even deadly for me. Yeah, graveyard - is best friend of classes, like Mage and Priest. Therefore I need to skip mobs to get to quest items faster. Plus competition with other players, that can vary from "dead location" to "completely wiped location".

All this factors cause fluctuations of enjoyment, I get from doing content. Fluctuations from "It's great!" to "I'd better go AFK to wait for things to calm down a little bit". Flying simply gives me some freedom of maneuver. If all mobs are dead within my sight range - I can find mobs to kill within just few seconds. If there are no quest items in sight - same thing. If I neither have some of my CDs, nor cannon balls and there is pack of fat/elite mobs in front of me - I would rather skip it. If my class is still too weak to kill fat mobs (like mobs in Sha'naar) - again, it's better to skip them, cuz high respawn rate is very dangerous - while I try to kill some mobs and spend my CDs on them - others can respawn right behind me. If I still need Fel-Corrupted Appexis Fragments and there is rare mob spawn near me - I should get there within just few seconds, cuz other overgeared players can literally one shot it. If location is completely wiped - I can just fly to another one.

Blizzard need to fix this "instability". My success and enjoyment shouldn't rely on ton of different random factors. If this quest takes 15 minutes to complete - it should require exactly 15 minutes every freakin day. Just one extra player from other faction, who accidentally started doing this quest right at the same time, as me, shouldn't double this time. That's it. Violation of this rule causes burnout, cuz sometimes I'm just too busy or tired to deal with all these extra delays, but the fact, that I HAVE to complete this content RIGHT HERE AND RIGHT NOW make me really angry. And I play game to enjoy it - not to hate it. Delays are deadly for any game. For example Cata failed exactly because players were sitting in 30 minute queues instead of actually playing the game.

P.S. Also I don't even understand, who one can enjoy this grindfest, i.e. killing same constantly respawning mob again, again again. How can one consider it to be immersive? I guess, this idea, that no flying content is "immersive and dangerous" exists only in imagination of some players. Yeah, old no flying content was immersive and dangerous. But no flying - isn't the only factor, that makes content immersive and dangerous. Dangerous and immersive enemies =/= pointless mobs, that are being farmed 24/7 and respawn ever 10 seconds, like they're training dummies.

[Deleted]

I must say that as a pro-flyer, you made some well thought out points. Or rather you are not writing a rage post full of nonsense.

You might not have paid close attention, but there are a lot of posts stating what you just realized.

This in itself will make the world as it currently is really. -a single player game with no danger to anyone-
In Legion there are no mandatory elite packs, unless you are doing worldquests which are optional. And you would mostly traverse the world for these quests while taking a taxi 80% of that time.

And what about that "class" that you claim to make content trivial... So he picks a druid and due to that he has an advantage? Really? So because he according to you has an advantage he does not require flying as much in current content (content as a whole from Vanilla until Legion)?

That is a problem in general with the game itself, not with flying. Flying isn't trivializing the game because outdoor world content is already trivialized after the first play through that specific area. The World isn't dangerous at all so we can stop talking about "making things easier" or "trivializing content". You can not trivialize content that is already pretty trivial. Flight doesn't take away any "danger" since there is none.

Flying for me takes away immersion for as long there is content that I need to do or have not visited yet. When that experience is behind me, hell yeah flying can be an addition to the game instead of it being a detractor of my experience. But I do understand that some people want it "smoother". But how smooth do you want it really? Is the game not already smooth as fuck? Do you die regularly? Did you die regularly while questing? Really? I am but a mediocre player now and I don't die as often. But yeah... I play a paladin... so I can "easily" deal with everything right? Honestly I have had the same experience on my warrior.

For me it is more that taking away flying and artificially restrict it is far more immersion breaking than "flying after you hit maxlevel" ever could. That is one thing most people (inkluding Blizzard) seem to forget: "immersion" is a highly personal thing. There is no "right" or "wrong immersion". And there certainly is no "that is how people should feel immersed into the game".

But how is this experience of no flight unbearable? Truly? You have the whistle. You have various FP. You have teleports all over the world. You have goblin flightkits.

You won't understand it because it is highly personal. Besides.... since all the things are already in the game and serve almost the same purpose as flying does, why not just keep flight the way it has always been up until Draenor? I personally like flying on my dragon a thousand times better than use all those workarounds. And i even like flying better than teleporting anyways, so for me the "it is just faster"-argument is out the window.

I honestly don't miss flying often. Sometimes maybe if I want to go someplace and I have a cooldown on my item X. Yeah I get annoyed. But otherwise flight is sorta meaningless. So how is it unbearable? What makes it unbearable?

Well as long as you like to be annoyed by cooldowns in a product you pay for mainly to have fun it is up to you. For me personally, if it stops being un because it is an overly annoying experience i stop playing and therefor paying for the product. Again: personal preferences. If it isn't unbearable for you doesn't mean it has to be that way for everybody else. And we should not forget: WoW is just a game, unbearable doesn't mean "i can not live that way!!!", it simply means "the game is less fun than it should be".

In this thread I have heard that people don't like to quest and want to make it the shortest experience as they can. This include world quests. Isn't the content itself where the problem then lies for you? What would you fix about that type of content to make it fun? Because flight still does not change the content, it just makes it a little quicker.

Oh there are so many good suggestions in this and other threads that incorporate good content with flight included. But that is.... you'll guess... highly subjective. The way it is now is just pretty comfortable for the devs. it is in no way, shape or form the best player experience for everybody.

- - - Updated - - -

The world you're advocating is boring and shallow. Luckily they'll never again follow those ideas.

I wouldn't be so quick. This "delaying flight" could also change next expansion IF they think that the drop off of customers isn't worth the hassle. That doesn't mean in any way that they are millions and millions of people quitting because of delayed flight. People might quit over delayed/no flight, but there are also parts of content that don't get used while flying is disabled because they take to much time and are too much of a hassle to even bother and/or get used more after flight is reenabled.

So i would be so quick to say "They'll never follow that road again". You know what they say about game that are in active development? "everything is subject to change"... EVERYTHING. That excludes sentences like "they will always..." and "They will never..."

[Deleted]

You might not have paid close attention, but there are a lot of posts stating what you just realized.


That is a problem in general with the game itself, not with flying. Flying isn't trivializing the game because outdoor world content is already trivialized after the first play through that specific area. The World isn't dangerous at all so we can stop talking about "making things easier" or "trivializing content". You can not trivialize content that is already pretty trivial. Flight doesn't take away any "danger" since there is none.

eeeeeh no? There's still walls, gates, elite mobs... a good few ways of telling a story even at max level that flight and flight only, not overgearing, trivializes.

For me it is more that taking away flying and artificially restrict it is far more immersion breaking than "flying after you hit maxlevel" ever could. That is one thing most people (inkluding Blizzard) seem to forget: "immersion" is a highly personal thing. There is no "right" or "wrong immersion". And there certainly is no "that is how people should feel immersed into the game".


You won't understand it because it is highly personal. Besides.... since all the things are already in the game and serve almost the same purpose as flying does, why not just keep flight the way it has always been up until Draenor? I personally like flying on my dragon a thousand times better than use all those workarounds. And i even like flying better than teleporting anyways, so for me the "it is just faster"-argument is out the window.

Yeah. All personal opinions. The delevopers don't care obviously. They want to tell a story and want you to go through it instead of going through some sort of "pick and go" experience. What you like most is secondary to the topic at hand.

Well as long as you like to be annoyed by cooldowns in a product you pay for mainly to have fun it is up to you. For me personally, if it stops being un because it is an overly annoying experience i stop playing and therefor paying for the product. Again: personal preferences. If it isn't unbearable for you doesn't mean it has to be that way for everybody else. And we should not forget: WoW is just a game, unbearable doesn't mean "i can not live that way!!!", it simply means "the game is less fun than it should be".

That's great but no one cares though. If you find legion's system of travelling around UNBEARABLE (which by the way has a meaning and it's not what you randomly picked) , it's your problem. No one else's. This isn't vanilla and mount at 40. Or walk to the flypath in Tanaris, or corpse runs starting from another zone. Now that was borderline unbearable.

Oh there are so many good suggestions in this and other threads that incorporate good content with flight included. But that is.... you'll guess... highly subjective. The way it is now is just pretty comfortable for the devs. it is in no way, shape or form the best player experience for everybody.

No there really aren't many suggestions at all. Want to know why? There is one way only of telling a story to a playerbase that is not affected by walls, mobs, gates or any sort of artificial boundaries, and that is cata's system of linear questing.
Not saying it's bad. It definitely work, but it's only one system, and linear content can be very VERY tiring.

[Deleted]

The world you're advocating is boring and shallow.

Yeah, because trying to read a quest while being disturbed by a lousy mob that is totally unable to harm you is so fun, fascinating, and dangerous, same as with farming herbs or minerals.
Also riding a tiger unable to pass over a 10 cm root in the floor, is highly inmersive.

[Deleted]

Yeah, because trying to read a quest while being disturbed by a lousy mob that is totally unable to harm you is so fun, fascinating, and dangerous, same as with farming herbs or minerals.
Also riding a tiger unable to pass over a 10 cm root in the floor, is highly inmersive.

Yeah that happened what... 2? 3? Let's exaggerate... 10 times since I started playing in vanilla. Some example you just made.
In regards to farming, you want farming to be an undisturbed series of direct lines from one node to the other? There's farming games that offer that.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

If Blizzard keep up with this mentally they will have no one playing. MMOs in general should revert changes if they don't work. Just look at CRZ, it has failed on so many levels yet they are keeping it in when server merges and or more connected realms are a better choice. If a system isn't broken or it has been in the game for so long why break it for. Flying the way it was before WoD was fine, i don't understand the need to force this shit on people when it was working fine ever since TBC.

The system was broken. Either you embrace the resulting change or you don't.

People will not stop playing World of Warcraft because of flying and that's the reality behind it. A small portion maybe, but it's a fair trade versus the gain in dynamic game design.

I don't expect to change your mind on the subject. However, the point you're making is not valid - the reality behind this change was a trade for a larger gain. It's a winning strategy that ultimately made a small portion of the player base - perhaps rightfully - angry, but also genuinely raised the quality of the level design of the game.

[Deleted]

Yeah, because trying to read a quest while being disturbed by a lousy mob that is totally unable to harm you is so fun, fascinating, and dangerous, same as with farming herbs or minerals.
Also riding a tiger unable to pass over a 10 cm root in the floor, is highly inmersive.

Yeah that happened what... 2? 3? Let's exaggerate... 10 times since I started playing in vanilla. Some example you just made.
In regards to farming, you want farming to be an undisturbed series of direct lines from one node to the other? There's farming games that offer that.

[Deleted]

Yeah that happened what... 2? 3? Let's exaggerate... 10 times since I started playing in vanilla. Some example you just made.
In regards to farming, you want farming to be an undisturbed series of direct lines from one node to the other? There's farming games that offer that.

I can´t stand talking to an NPC that is giving me a quest or that i am finishing the quest and being interrupted by mobs.
Do the quests as difficult as you want them to be, send me to kill a mob surrounded by millions of mobs if you want, but for god´s sake do not place mobs next to questgivers, it is damn annoying.
On the farming herbs example i can tell you to try felwood, see the placement of herbs there, yes you have to fight some mobs sometimes, but there are far more nodes, and you do not have to kill sargeras and the whole damn legion for just a herb in stormheim.
I am not advocating for flying by the way, i am explaining why the ground game it is not as smooth as @Vaelorian was describing it.

[Maudib]

Yeah. All personal opinions. The delevopers don't care obviously. They want to tell a story and want you to go through it instead of going through some sort of "pick and go" experience.

The best story told in WoW so far was the Lich King story, during WotLK, when flying was available at max level on first toon and lower yet with tomes for alts.

The devs truly have reached the end of their creativity... everything in game is designed to gate content, not enhance it.

For me, flying delayed this way only does one thing... I get bored of the thin content/creative and since I cannot take to the sky I leave game because it's simply not fun enough to play otherwise.

In Wrath, I would fly around and mine, herb, farm... for hours on end because it felt good to do so. After two months of WoD and Legion, I cancelled sub because it felt bad.

There is nothing else to say about it. The way flying is handled now has killed the experience for me.

[Deleted]

I can´t stand talking to an NPC that is giving me a quest or that i am finishing the quest and being interrupted by mobs.
Do the quests as difficult as you want them to be, send me to kill a mob surrounded by millions of mobs if you want, but for god´s sake do not place mobs next to questgivers, it is damn annoying.
On the farming herbs example i can tell you to try felwood, see the placement of herbs there, yes you have to fight some mobs sometimes, but there are far more nodes, and you do not have to kill sargeras and the whole damn legion for just a herb in stormheim.
I am not advocating for flying by the way, i am explaining why the ground game it is not as smooth as @Vaelorian was describing it.

How many times did that happen in your wow career? Just curios.
Farming is farming is farming. One shotting some random poor mob isn't unbearable. How do you propose to fix that, no mobs around nodes? How's that gonna work?

- - - Updated - - -

The best story told in WoW so far was the Lich King story, during WotLK, when flying was available at max level on first toon and lower yet with tomes for alts.

The devs truly have reached the end of their creativity... everything in game is designed to gate content, not enhance it.

For me, flying delayed this way only does one thing... I get bored of the thin content/creative and since I cannot take to the sky I leave game because it's simply not fun enough to play otherwise.

In Wrath, I would fly around and mine, herb, farm... for hours on end because it felt good to do so. After two months of WoD and Legion, I cancelled sub because it felt bad.

There is nothing else to say about it. The way flying is handled now has killed the experience for me.

The Lich king, which had what 9 zones? 2 or 3 of which designed with flying, the remaining ones designed to be experienced from the ground. So yeah... are you saying that storm Peaks and Icecrown represent ALL good there was in wotlk?

And... are you saying that wow, with a gem of unique beauty like Suramar, has ran out of creativity? Why, cause you can't farm nodes faster? How does that make any sense.

[Deleted]

How many times did that happen in your wow career? Just curios.

Since WOD, and specially in Legion, because i level a throng of chars, on a daily basis, i do not remember this being an issue in the past, but yeah in the past, zones were bigger, you could afford to place questgivers without being surrounded by mobs, and also you had more place for the nodes i guess.

- - - Updated - - -

Farming is farming is farming. One shotting some random poor mob isn't unbearable. How do you propose to fix that, no mobs around nodes? How's that gonna work?

Easy, first absolutely no mobs next to a questgiver, and for the nodes i would again suggest to look at felwood, it is quite stupid to have packs of mobs close to a node, instead of one or two.

[Deleted]

when you're able to fly, half of the content is gone

[Beet]

You're going to have to perform some pretty incredible mental gymnastics to prove that someone else flying impacts how you play.

Dude you've seen the entire threads on how flying impacts the game for others. You know the arguments and you want to pretend they're dumb. So like I said you're acting bratty. You got flying for half the expac and we got no flying for half the expac. You however want it always. That's greed. You'd say the same if I wanted no flying always and you know it.

[WowIsDead64]

when you're able to fly, half of the content is gone

Strange thing. I do Tanaan every day. And all content is there - nothing missing. What half you're talking about?

P.S. Too early to make conclusion, but according to leveling quests - Rogue isn't so bad. At least he has some self healing. Mage and Priest were much worse.

[Deleted]

No. You will not get what you're wishing for, because it would make the game worst for everyone else but a group of weird people that find travelling around in legion "unbearable".

- - - Updated - - -



It won't backfire though. You know why? No one cares.
No one cares about the lack of flying in legion apart from people that make it a matter of principles. People with WAAAAAY too much free time on their hands.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah so? What... you judge a zone by its size? Is uldum now good? And suramar bad because it's smaller?

just because you have 2 friends who dont care doesnt mean the majority dont care

Players are just more quiet since Blizzard gave them a Date where they will be able to fly again

But hey at least the World feels big right ??? Legion is so small even with Ground Mounts... so what fucking awful design is this anyway?

[Kazgrel]

when you're able to fly, half of the content is gone

Weird, I could log in right now and all the content I've ever done over the past decade is still there, minus the stuff removed with Cata.

[Deleted]

just because you have 2 friends who dont care doesnt mean the majority dont care

Players are just more quiet since Blizzard gave them a Date where they will be able to fly again

But hey at least the World feels big right ??? Legion is so small even with Ground Mounts... so what fucking awful design is this anyway?

You judge content by its size? Curios.

- - - Updated - - -

We're all guessing about numbers. No one knows. What I do know is people that don't make this a matter of principles aren't affected by lack of flying in legion cause travelling times are reduced and moving around is pretty effective.
And people that make flying in wow a matter of principles are... Yeah... weird. So it's an educated guess that there are less weird people .

[Myah]

I miss flying. I just like flying. I know some people don't. I do.

Should've been like it was with Panda, fly once you reach max level. Or complete all zones (which is easily done, you'll see the quests), but waiting for months, when I'm already bored? meh

[Deleted]

You judge content by its size? Curios.

- - - Updated - - -

We're all guessing about numbers. No one knows. What I do know is people that don't make this a matter of principles aren't affected by lack of flying in legion cause travelling times are reduced and moving around is pretty effective.
And people that make flying in wow a matter of principles are... Yeah... weird. So it's an educated guess that there are less weird people .

Yes i judge it by the size if People always write something like "Oh the World feels so small with Flying" yet they dont realize its not bigger without

[Deleted]

I miss flying. I just like flying. I know some people don't. I do.

Should've been like it was with Panda, fly once you reach max level. Or complete all zones (which is easily done, you'll see the quests), but waiting for months, when I'm already bored? meh

You won't be bored after flying? What you're gonna fly in circles above Dalaran and feel happy?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes i judge it by the size if People always write something like "Oh the World feels so small with Flying" yet they dont realize its not bigger without

It is bigger without flying. Being able to lift vertical and reach anywhere in a straight line kind of makes everything smaller.