How much damage are healers expected to these days?

[Deleted]

At least 2 times more dmg than the dps or they get kiked!!!

[kamuimac]

^^

How much damage are healers expected to do in pve content?

In dungeons there are plenty of times where healing isnt required, in the past healers just conserved mana and did nothing while patiently waiting for the group to take more damage (I dont miss healing in wrath), but now healer DPS rotations are largely free to use and dish out respectable amounts of damage.
If a healer can keep everyone alive and deal 20% of a dps damage, its well worthwhile (considering dps players threaten to quit over 5% differences)

These contributions can be very meaningful, in my own personal experience i have been able to make up DPS shortfalls for the groups lowest dps where added together with mine rival the top dps.

So, knowing this, is it frowned upon now for healers to DPS in dungeons/raids when they 'should' be focusing on heals like it was in the past? or is idly waiting for group damage now frowned upon? Or perhaps healers get a free pass to do whatever they want in their spare time?

So are healers now expected to do some DPS, and if so, how much?

0

healers are expected to heal

if they want they can ofc do as long as it doesnt affect their healing

there is nothing that pisses me off more in dungeons then when i have to to sit on 30-40% health and be careful because idiot healer decided that him pushing 100k aoe dps on trash is worth it - its not when i can push 2-3 mln burst.

[Deleted]

mechanics differed, for instance in wrath you couldnt regen mana in combat and your offensive spells ate your mana meaning in downtime you afk'd to regen mana due to regen only kicking in 5s after you did anything, it sucked hard.

Still, within those constraints you'd do as much DPS as possible (not very much, but still). Nothing has changed in the mindset.

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0

healers are expected to heal

if they want they can ofc do as long as it doesnt affect their healing

there is nothing that pisses me off more in dungeons then when i have to to sit on 30-40% health and be careful because idiot healer decided that him pushing 100k aoe dps on trash is worth it - its not when i can push 2-3 mln burst.

It's totally worth it, if no one dies. Everyone should be doing their maximum possible DPS. All the time. The main objective is to complete the instance - this is done by reducing hostile NPC health to 0. Doing damage is the only way to accomplish this. Doing damage is expected from everyone.

[Battlebeard]

For my Holy Paladin and Resto Shaman, I heal, and only heal. I don't have the energy or interest in assisting on damage. I keep them alive and rather overheal than damage, because it's simply not fun to play some kind of hybrid.

[bloodmoth13]

Still, within those constraints you'd do as much DPS as possible (not very much, but still). Nothing has changed in the mindset.

Honestly, you just straight didnt do damage, i remember getting told off numerous times for doing dps as a healer back in wrath. If you had enough mana to dps, chances are you could sub a healer for a DD, even worse perhaps was how swingy HP was in wrath where precasting greater heal was a thing, you would precast your big heal waiting for a big swing, a single swing could take the tank from 100 - 10% and a greater heal could go from 10% - 100% (minor exaggeration).

Heck before legion launched there was massive debate over discipline priests dealing damage and healing, i remember getting a lot of negativity when suggesting that healers should be dealing damage in down time.

personally im really glad that the game has evolved where healers can contribute dps as i find it much more engaging. Having to react to damage when you are standing there doing nothing is boring, swapping between damage and dps is alot more fun, but i use healbot so i keep my dps buttons in their usual position.

[zephix]

Depends on what you're doing really. Every time this comes up theres a big clash between people pushing content with tight dps checks (guarm m, star auger and krosus are good examples of this), and people logging in for daily heroics (oversimplyfying for sake of understanding).

One requires every bit of dps you can squeeze out of your raid, one you can solo at this point in the expansion, people commenting on this comes from both sides of the spectrum and contributes with their perspectives, neither is wrong for the content they're doing, just understand what you're doing might not apply to what others are doing.

Do the content that fit you the most, if you want to only heal and not dps, cutting edge progress isnt for you, because some fights will require you to make the most of every global wether its damage or healing

[Low Hanging Fruit]

5 mans healers should have plenty of time to do DPS. Well at least if your group isn't total shit and/or you have people all doing content of their power / experience levels because if they are shit for example you will have to heal a lot when it isn't necessary and that reduces your damage. I even change talents / trinkets / gear to do more damage in 5 mans on the resto druid because it is pretty important to meet more demanding times to have a healer doing what they can. Here you SHOULD be trying to do as much damage as possible. You WILL have a lot of down time that you should use.

Raids it is a mixed bag. Some encounters you can REALLY do a lot of DPS because certain bosses aren't that demanding minus certain phases and abilities in an encounter. Other encounters it can be a constant need of healing across the board and damage isn't that important from the healers. I know when I am playing the resto druid I do manage to keep moonfire and sunfire up most the time so I am helping almost all the time but not that strongly. If it ends up being a period where healing isn't needed I spam wrath. But end of the day in raids if your healer DPS is what makes or breaks your kills than you are likely in serious trouble as a raid team. Sure they can make things go faster and as gear and experience increases they should be able to give you more to make fights go slightly faster but end of the day if you rest on this leg for DPS you got other issues you need to explore into before harping on them to much. I know on some encounters on DPS as my resto druid I can cast only a dozen or so times and make it into the 70th % level and that tells me that it isn't something that is really going on a lot. A least with people on public WoL groups. The numbers simply don't lie.

PVP I try to damage as much as possible. Granted I am not a gladiator level player or anything (normally around the 2k to 2.2k level). But I figure when my HoTs are rolling and I am not under pressure I can be pushing a little hurt out to get us an extra kill or pressure the other teams healer into using dispels or extra healing. But end of the day I cannot really express a lot of know in this department. It simply isn't what I play WoW for beyond a weekend good time with a few friends.

[Vebi]

5 mans healers should have plenty of time to do DPS. Well at least if your group isn't total shit and/or you have people all doing content of their power / experience levels because if they are shit for example you will have to heal a lot when it isn't necessary and that reduces your damage. I even change talents / trinkets / gear to do more damage in 5 mans on the resto druid because it is pretty important to meet more demanding times to have a healer doing what they can. Here you SHOULD be trying to do as much damage as possible. You WILL have a lot of down time that you should use.

Raids it is a mixed bag. Some encounters you can REALLY do a lot of DPS because certain bosses aren't that demanding minus certain phases and abilities in an encounter. Other encounters it can be a constant need of healing across the board and damage isn't that important from the healers. I know when I am playing the resto druid I do manage to keep moonfire and sunfire up most the time so I am helping almost all the time but not that strongly. If it ends up being a period where healing isn't needed I spam wrath. But end of the day in raids if your healer DPS is what makes or breaks your kills than you are likely in serious trouble as a raid team. Sure they can make things go faster and as gear and experience increases they should be able to give you more to make fights go slightly faster but end of the day if you rest on this leg for DPS you got other issues you need to explore into before harping on them to much. I know on some encounters on DPS as my resto druid I can cast only a dozen or so times and make it into the 70th % level and that tells me that it isn't something that is really going on a lot. A least with people on public WoL groups. The numbers simply don't lie.

PVP I try to damage as much as possible. Granted I am not a gladiator level player or anything (normally around the 2k to 2.2k level). But I figure when my HoTs are rolling and I am not under pressure I can be pushing a little hurt out to get us an extra kill or pressure the other teams healer into using dispels or extra healing. But end of the day I cannot really express a lot of know in this department. It simply isn't what I play WoW for beyond a weekend good time with a few friends.

Im an Holy by myself and do sometimes DMG when i want to.... (as i said in page 1) but never do it because i need to! its simply not my job. My job is to keep the group alive, if i did this my jobe is done. if i want to do DMG (and its quite low as holy Priest so its not mentionable) ill do it. And i dont care if anyone in my group says i should do DMG... its simply not my job and i dont know since when i need to do DMG

(PvP is an exception here, because here i need to do DMG when i want to win against another player)

as i stated on page 1... DMG as heal ist voluntary .. not an obligation (hope i picked the right word here, english is not my mother language)

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

As many others have said, it depends on what else is happening and how free you are to DPS. As tank, the only time I get annoyed is when healer is standing idle or spamming heals I clearly don't need. Just make yourself useful is all I ask. That might mean saving me from a derp, or it might mean tossing in whatever DPS you can muster. As long as we're all living and you're doing your best to help the team, I'm happy to have you along.

[Dastreus]

It fluctuates on intensity of group damage taken. There's your answer. There is no solid answer. It's a healer, not a DPS class.

[Mazeari]

If in m+ the healer does no dps, I assume he is either very new to the class, lazy, tilted, or most likely just bad. Like some people saying it doesn't matter, as a holy priest you can easely do 100-150k TOTAL dps, which ends up to roughly 5% of all damage done. So you just spared 1-2 minuts of the run, can easely mean the difference between chesting.
Just as much as I expect a rogue to feint else I find him a bad player.

[Mintra]

I'm a disc priest, so damage is part of my kit. In high M+ I do about 7-8% of total damage (about 150-200k average dps, higher on boss). I had groups, who were a bit unsure of viability of my spec in M+, but very pleased in the end of the run to see my total damage and the fact, that it was one of the reasons we made it in time (15 seconds left on last 17+)

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Im an Holy by myself and do sometimes DMG when i want to.... (as i said in page 1) but never do it because i need to! its simply not my job. My job is to keep the group alive, if i did this my jobe is done. if i want to do DMG (and its quite low as holy Priest so its not mentionable) ill do it. And i dont care if anyone in my group says i should do DMG... its simply not my job and i dont know since when i need to do DMG

(PvP is an exception here, because here i need to do DMG when i want to win against another player)

as i stated on page 1... DMG as heal ist voluntary .. not an obligation (hope i picked the right word here, english is not my mother language)

Right it is pretty much a choice. But it is a choice a great healer would make when they have the opportunity. Which is the floating point in the discussion. Opportunity. Everyone is on different teams in different groups will have radically different opportunities because of player skill, class make up, and level of content you are going after.

But if you have the opportunity this is how you have to look at it:

Is doing absolutely nothing more valuable to a team than doing something even if it is just a little?

While I can agree opportunity differs greatly between for a lot of us and that means some of us have a LOT of time to DPS and others have only VERY LITTLE time to DPS it shouldn't really pull away from the subject doing something when you are doing nothing. Any raid leader that worries more about healer DPS than then the actual DPS of DPS players likely has bigger problems he is to ignorant to notice or purposely avoiding. I heard it in discord the other night during a PUG where the raid leader was screaming at healers to DPS while he had mages and warlocks sub 300k in heroic NH (they were in his guild as well). Sure that guy is an idiot. But at the same time I was healing during that run and pulling a steady 100k DPS while competing right with or slight above the other healers that were mindlessly spamming for the charts. The only difference between them and myself was I took the correct opportunities to damage when healing was pointless. They didn't. That is a net gain no matter how you look at it.

Net gains are how you become a better player in the end. How you become more valuable to others. Now I get it that not everyone worries about being the best player they can be or how others in the game value them. That is perfectly ok. But once you step into group content you have to realize you are as much apart of that group as anyone else in it and should strive to do the best you can from all angles. I mean I assume if you are there you want bosses to die? Why not do your best for the team. I mean DPS isn't really that hard I just have 1 key with an alt and ctrl key modifier that allows me to moonfire, sunfire, and then spam wrath with ease while my mouse is floating around the grid tossing rejuv, wild growths, and lifebooms. It isn't hard and it is valuable.

[furiousferret]

It cannot be overstated, the most important thing is mana conservation. If I'm doing M+ on my Resto Shaman, I just toss bolts, because if things go bad I can go out of mana fast and I don't assume there will be time to drink (especially in a pug). In Heroics and Raids I'll dps (more at the end of boss fights in Raids) but in M+ its a fine line. The dps are there for that, that's literally all they have to do.

Additionally, if you are carrying people your full attention has to be on healing. We have to focus on the health bars, fight mechanics, dps...I don't think other roles quite appreciate the involvement this takes and which is why dps often call out healers for being 'bad'. I can hit my rotations as dps, not look at the screen for 5-10 seconds at a time and be fine. Its not that it is super hard, but healing requires 100% attention, so if a healer is overwhelmed just healing, that's all I'll ask of them.

If it comes off a bit salty, its because I'm tired of dps in M+ expecting to get carried by a tank and healer, going down in a global and crying that its somehow our fault. I'm fine with carrying, just own up that you're undergeared for the content and don't blame the healer or tank.

[Vebi]

Right it is pretty much a choice. But it is a choice a great healer would make when they have the opportunity. Which is the floating point in the discussion. Opportunity. Everyone is on different teams in different groups will have radically different opportunities because of player skill, class make up, and level of content you are going after.

But if you have the opportunity this is how you have to look at it:

Is doing absolutely nothing more valuable to a team than doing something even if it is just a little?

While I can agree opportunity differs greatly between for a lot of us and that means some of us have a LOT of time to DPS and others have only VERY LITTLE time to DPS it shouldn't really pull away from the subject doing something when you are doing nothing. Any raid leader that worries more about healer DPS than then the actual DPS of DPS players likely has bigger problems he is to ignorant to notice or purposely avoiding. I heard it in discord the other night during a PUG where the raid leader was screaming at healers to DPS while he had mages and warlocks sub 300k in heroic NH (they were in his guild as well). Sure that guy is an idiot. But at the same time I was healing during that run and pulling a steady 100k DPS while competing right with or slight above the other healers that were mindlessly spamming for the charts. The only difference between them and myself was I took the correct opportunities to damage when healing was pointless. They didn't. That is a net gain no matter how you look at it.

Net gains are how you become a better player in the end. How you become more valuable to others. Now I get it that not everyone worries about being the best player they can be or how others in the game value them. That is perfectly ok. But once you step into group content you have to realize you are as much apart of that group as anyone else in it and should strive to do the best you can from all angles. I mean I assume if you are there you want bosses to die? Why not do your best for the team. I mean DPS isn't really that hard I just have 1 key with an alt and ctrl key modifier that allows me to moonfire, sunfire, and then spam wrath with ease while my mouse is floating around the grid tossing rejuv, wild growths, and lifebooms. It isn't hard and it is valuable.

Jeah i got you with your Points. Even when im doing DMG (and i do this when i have free time) - its just voluntary - and if some Lead/Raidlead flaming me because i did no dmg at an boss then i show him some dmg, but then he can die in peace

But i get your message, but on the other hand we can say...an good DD alsways trys to get the lowest number of DMG at his char (movement), uses his Deff CDs or is supporting the raid with supporting abilitys while he is doing his job. Would be the equal. ^^

For me - DMG as an heal is just "luxus" for the group if you get what i mean. I can do it but i dont need to. Most of the times ill do it, because otherwise i get sleepy because its boring

i think its more important to support your teammates in the way how your heal class allows you.... i push them to me when they are standing in shit - or give my raidlead suggestions when i see something, call raid CDs...
or use other CDs that are helping my other heals (Symbol of Hope)

[Heathy]

the biggest crit i've had as disc is something like a 9mil lights wrath, but it only happens in 5 mans because 'overloaded with light' doesn't proc in raids. but yeah if you have a hunter or a lock and you can squeeze out a couple extra atonements on their pets and lights wrath crits, while you have overloaded with light, your looking at probably the hardest hitting healer spell in the game?.

[Comfort]

I run a fair bit of m+ as healer and I always contribute towards damage. on those tyrannical weeks in Nelfs Lair its depressing to see the 2nd boss go under again with very little hp so if I can help that from happening I will.

I main holy paladin so I will always contribute to damage whether its expected or not. On aoe on trash you can help reduce the time on pulls significantly and easily while throwing out heals on people. It goes faster and less damage is taken overall.

In raids I tend not to do more than judge and holy prism but when I did progression raiding I would always contribute damage when I could as phasing faster or clutch kills it helps.

However, do I expect other healers to do that? depends on the situation. For the progression raiding point yes, but all others I'd say its their choice. Though the nelfs lair example will make me cry if I'm tanking/dpsing and it happens with 0 dps from the healer xD

[MechaCThun]

If your job is to drive the kids on the school bus to school every day, I wouldn't complain if the pancakes you were cooking (while driving) weren't perfectly golden and fluffy.

Nor would I expect you to cook the perfect pancakes.

[Asrialol]

Healers who doesn't DPS are either just bad, or lazy. It's really not much more to it than that. A healer should be DPSing during downtime - your job isn't just to make sure people stay alive, it's to complete the content you're doing right there and then, and by dealing damage, you're doing just that.

Most of the people I've seen that disagrees are usually quite bad, or just too casual to care about doing the best for the group/raid etc.

[Kyr]

healing as disc my goal was to outdps the tank.