[MISTWEAVER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Taygai]

Every healer has had a raid CD since cataclysm. It's become the norm. If a healer doesn't bring a raid CD, then as you said they need to make up for it in other ways. But to do so, they need to give the healer something else. Whether that's strong dps output, or throughput in healing general. If you do strong dps output, then nearly every raid will ask, want and require one, because more dps is always good. If give them strong healing throughput instead of a raid CD, then it's the same thing, bring one all the time because where other healers can't pick up the slack, the healer without a CD can, conserving mana for everyone.

This is why it was homogenized. Not every CD needs to be the exact same. Each CD should have their own niche like they do.

Paladin - Aura mastery can do 1 of 3 things depending on talent, Won't go in depth here.

Shaman - Spirit link is amazing, so is healing tide. These are major CD's, they also have a ton of smaller CD's.

Druid - Tranquility is pretty similar to healing tide, it does require to be channeled (although you can now move with it in legion) so that could be a downside depending on what is going on.

Holy priest - Divine hymn has always been good, and now they have hymn of hope again (or did they always have it, I forget). Hymn is just better in legion because it can be a good CD on it's own, where as before it needed another strong CD to even be worth casting.

Disc priest - Damage reduction is great, especially at 30%. They also arguably have a raid CD with their artifact ability which is great burst healing, which is what disc priests are known for

Monk - Revival, one instant cast burst healing, now with artifact trait heals over time afterwards.

Problem with revival is it heals too little. I'm of the mindset, if they make one healer without a raid CD then no healer should have one, but having a raid CD is in my mind good design. Yes it's the same thing fight after fight, but I think it adds depth to a fight to have this "big burst of damage" where as if you can't survive it, hopefully you have a disc priest or paladin (usually every group has at least one of the two, most likely a paladin), or if it doesn't one shot you, you can heal it with one click of button to help bring people up consistently.

Revival also has an issue where it cleanses. This used to be nice, but back then there weren't a lot of debuffs you would wipe a group with. Now there are debuffs that if you cleanse at the wrong time, it'll wipe, or lead to one quickly.

Every healer in my mind, should be designed on the same skeleton, it's how they change what they tack onto that skeleton making the healer unique. And to me, mistweaver is a weaker version of resto shaman at this point with less throughput, cooldown, and overall less useful. Mistweaver has two things over a shaman. Amazing mobility, and a sweet ass order hall (Unless you hate pandaren...and then you can just fall off a bridge...causemonklore). Beyond mobility I can't think of a single thing a resto shaman can't do that a mistweaver can but better. Even if it wasn't a matter of mistweavers suck, but a copy of a shaman.

I mean...just to compare abilities


Renewing mist >= riptide (Renewing mist jumps if target is at full health, which can be good or bad, usually good)
Vivify = Chain heal. I haven't compared SP ratios, although I think vivify wins if it gets the proc from renewing mist. Vivify also has a soom passive from the spec itself. It's hard to tell which one is better.
Effuse = Healing Wave, basically the same spells, healing wave can be cast faster after riptide, and effuse has soom passive
Enveloping mist = nothing. I don't think shamans have anything close to how powerful enveloping mist. This gives MW a little stronger healing, that may not be burst, but as long as the target isn't dying in 2-3 globals and you can afford to heal with a single target, then this spell is and always has been effective. Not just for the heal itself, but the increased healing the target receives while it's active.

Essence font = healing rain? The two spells are different in how they function but I couldn't find anything between the two to compare. Healing font places a HoT on the person as well as the intial healing, while healing rain heals everyone in it. Overall on stack mechanics I think healing rain wins, but in spread, essence font probably wins. Unfortunately NH favors melee, so if you have a lot of melee, healing rain will probably win unless for some reason ranged are taking damage that melee aren't.

Soothing mist = nothing. It's not a large heal, but free healing is free healing. Generally you won't be channeling this for long so it probably won't make for a lot of healing.

Thunder focus tea = I'm sure something. It's great that it buffs other MW spells, but it's artifact healing is so small.

Sheilun = Gift. Sheilun is a good ST heal, that can be pooled for a big heal or just spammed for smaller heals. I'm pretty sure it was free of mana cost. Given that monks don't have the strongest ST healing, this was nice addition, but would've been nice if it cleaved or left a ReM on the target too. Gift is great AoE healing for stacking again. In addition to the HP bonus.


This is just comparing the most utility favored healing class to the one that isn't. Monk can be improved, but I don't think taking revival away is the answer.

[Deleted]

Cant really compare the spells like that lol. But if you do, healing surge is the comparison to enm.

We have free heals cos our other spells are more expensive then other healers spells. We pay 49.5k mana for vivify same amount of mana hpriest can cast prayer of healing for 3× 275%sp vs 5x 250%sp.

What needs to happend with revival is to get scaling of mastery. Forexample 1 masterypoint (400masteryrating) would increase revival healing with 1% healing.

[cqwrteur]

Every healer has had a raid CD since cataclysm. It's become the norm. If a healer doesn't bring a raid CD, then as you said they need to make up for it in other ways. But to do so, they need to give the healer something else. Whether that's strong dps output, or throughput in healing general. If you do strong dps output, then nearly every raid will ask, want and require one, because more dps is always good. If give them strong healing throughput instead of a raid CD, then it's the same thing, bring one all the time because where other healers can't pick up the slack, the healer without a CD can, conserving mana for everyone.

This is why it was homogenized. Not every CD needs to be the exact same. Each CD should have their own niche like they do.

Paladin - Aura mastery can do 1 of 3 things depending on talent, Won't go in depth here.

Shaman - Spirit link is amazing, so is healing tide. These are major CD's, they also have a ton of smaller CD's.

Druid - Tranquility is pretty similar to healing tide, it does require to be channeled (although you can now move with it in legion) so that could be a downside depending on what is going on.

Holy priest - Divine hymn has always been good, and now they have hymn of hope again (or did they always have it, I forget). Hymn is just better in legion because it can be a good CD on it's own, where as before it needed another strong CD to even be worth casting.

Disc priest - Damage reduction is great, especially at 30%. They also arguably have a raid CD with their artifact ability which is great burst healing, which is what disc priests are known for

Monk - Revival, one instant cast burst healing, now with artifact trait heals over time afterwards.

Problem with revival is it heals too little. I'm of the mindset, if they make one healer without a raid CD then no healer should have one, but having a raid CD is in my mind good design. Yes it's the same thing fight after fight, but I think it adds depth to a fight to have this "big burst of damage" where as if you can't survive it, hopefully you have a disc priest or paladin (usually every group has at least one of the two, most likely a paladin), or if it doesn't one shot you, you can heal it with one click of button to help bring people up consistently.

Revival also has an issue where it cleanses. This used to be nice, but back then there weren't a lot of debuffs you would wipe a group with. Now there are debuffs that if you cleanse at the wrong time, it'll wipe, or lead to one quickly.

Every healer in my mind, should be designed on the same skeleton, it's how they change what they tack onto that skeleton making the healer unique. And to me, mistweaver is a weaker version of resto shaman at this point with less throughput, cooldown, and overall less useful. Mistweaver has two things over a shaman. Amazing mobility, and a sweet ass order hall (Unless you hate pandaren...and then you can just fall off a bridge...causemonklore). Beyond mobility I can't think of a single thing a resto shaman can't do that a mistweaver can but better. Even if it wasn't a matter of mistweavers suck, but a copy of a shaman.

I mean...just to compare abilities


Renewing mist >= riptide (Renewing mist jumps if target is at full health, which can be good or bad, usually good)
Vivify = Chain heal. I haven't compared SP ratios, although I think vivify wins if it gets the proc from renewing mist. Vivify also has a soom passive from the spec itself. It's hard to tell which one is better.
Effuse = Healing Wave, basically the same spells, healing wave can be cast faster after riptide, and effuse has soom passive
Enveloping mist = nothing. I don't think shamans have anything close to how powerful enveloping mist. This gives MW a little stronger healing, that may not be burst, but as long as the target isn't dying in 2-3 globals and you can afford to heal with a single target, then this spell is and always has been effective. Not just for the heal itself, but the increased healing the target receives while it's active.

Essence font = healing rain? The two spells are different in how they function but I couldn't find anything between the two to compare. Healing font places a HoT on the person as well as the intial healing, while healing rain heals everyone in it. Overall on stack mechanics I think healing rain wins, but in spread, essence font probably wins. Unfortunately NH favors melee, so if you have a lot of melee, healing rain will probably win unless for some reason ranged are taking damage that melee aren't.

Soothing mist = nothing. It's not a large heal, but free healing is free healing. Generally you won't be channeling this for long so it probably won't make for a lot of healing.

Thunder focus tea = I'm sure something. It's great that it buffs other MW spells, but it's artifact healing is so small.

Sheilun = Gift. Sheilun is a good ST heal, that can be pooled for a big heal or just spammed for smaller heals. I'm pretty sure it was free of mana cost. Given that monks don't have the strongest ST healing, this was nice addition, but would've been nice if it cleaved or left a ReM on the target too. Gift is great AoE healing for stacking again. In addition to the HP bonus.


This is just comparing the most utility favored healing class to the one that isn't. Monk can be improved, but I don't think taking revival away is the answer.

I think you miss my point. I mean many ppl think the game is homogenization now, while it isn't.

The problem is non-homogenization, not homogenization.
It is a death circle:
OP healers like HPal can do everything what a mw could do => people dont see real differences between a mw and a hpal => people complains this game is "homogenization" (while de facto it is non homogenization) => blizz listens to them and refuses to add utility to mw(since they don't want the game to be more "homogenization") => HPal is still op.

[Floopa]

boots nerfed on PTR.

meanwhile iterendi and velens exist

[cqwrteur]

boots nerfed on PTR.

meanwhile iterendi and velens exist

oh great. we will still bench in 7.2. Time to quit retail and play vanilla on elysium.

[Brf]

things that are good for mistweavers:

7.2 boots... nerfed.
drape of shame... nerfed.
cake trinket... will be nerfed too?

time for reroll?

[Deleted]

What do u thing about build our 7.2 game on boots and chest. Talents will be Focused or Rising Thunder and spend additional TFT on ReM and build stack of our artifact with Effuse and trying to heal on AOE dmg with Vivify and Shelium. Best stats will be haste/mastery/crit/versa.
Sry for language.

[Deleted]

Even with nerf its a huge buff from waht its on live. Also the boots increased the healing of Ut vivify with over 50% but now its just increasing UT with 42% increased healing.

[Spotnick]

things that are good for mistweavers:

7.2 boots... nerfed.
drape of shame... nerfed.
cake trinket... will be nerfed too?

time for reroll?

I don't even use the cake trinket, it's in my bags... Velen+Arcanocrystal FTW

- - - Updated - - -

boots nerfed on PTR.

meanwhile iterendi and velens exist

Well, at least YOU can get Velen's too! I'm not surprised it's nerf, that is the whole point of reworking all those was to make sure none was OP.. not saying some don't need nerfs still of course, but they nerfed Tears of Elune for resto druids which was by far the BIS...

[Taygai]

I think you miss my point. I mean many ppl think the game is homogenization now, while it isn't.

The problem is non-homogenization, not homogenization.
It is a death circle:
OP healers like HPal can do everything what a mw could do => people dont see real differences between a mw and a hpal => people complains this game is "homogenization" (while de facto it is non homogenization) => blizz listens to them and refuses to add utility to mw(since they don't want the game to be more "homogenization") => HPal is still op.

I feel like classes are homogenized more than ever before. We were very very different healers back in WoD from any other healer. Holy paladins have been the same since pretty much wrath. Beacon tanks, play whack a mole. Every other healer is relatively the same. They all have the same goal. I guess it depends on how wide or narrow you view the spectrum. Playing many different healing classes in every expansion, but maining hpally til MoP & monk til legion, I'd say I can have confidence in saying...that every healer is closer in playstyle than they ever have been before.

Balance...is just not the best. I think that's more so a legion issue that a class issue, but still a balance problem.

[mkultra55]

Is the change to the Boots really that bad? I've been focusing more on DPS so I'm a little out of the loop but the new effect seems to be decent. Can someone run through why it's considered such a big nerf?

[Deleted]

On live boots are quite meh in raids. In M+ they have some use.

For example on Augur bonus provided by boots is useless becouse boss don't use melee attacks at all. With this rework boots (even with this slight nerf) will be really good, but you have to get used to more vivify focused rotation

[Awsumpossum]

Is the change to the Boots really that bad? I've been focusing more on DPS so I'm a little out of the loop but the new effect seems to be decent. Can someone run through why it's considered such a big nerf?

It's not a big nerf to the boots compared to their current effect. The nerf people are referring to is with regard to the new effect. When it was first announced it increased the bonus by 20% instead of 10%. By most accounts, they still won't be as good as trinket/pad'daz which is why people are frustrated/complaining. MW still won't have a spec specific legendary that is BIS.

[mkultra55]

It's not a big nerf to the boots compared to their current effect. The nerf people are referring to is with regard to the new effect. When it was first announced it increased the bonus by 20% instead of 10%. By most accounts, they still won't be as good as trinket/pad'daz which is why people are frustrated/complaining. MW still won't have a spec specific legendary that is BIS.

Thanx for the info.

[Deleted]

What do u thing about build our 7.2 game on boots and chest. Talents will be Focused or Rising Thunder and spend additional TFT on ReM and build stack of our artifact with Effuse and trying to heal on AOE dmg with Vivify and Shelium. Best stats will be haste/mastery/crit/versa.
Sry for language.

The Rising Thunder talent will be still weak in comparison to the two other talents. The mana cost of RsK is still too high (11000mp5 loss is a huge heal lost: approx. -7%). But the Refuge of the Rng will be much stronger with the new artifact traits whatever the chosen talent (approx 5% addtional healing from its effects).

The legging of the black is already a decent leg but with the 4P T20 bonus is should be a very good leg (+8% but dependant of the RNG gods).
The Petrichor with the reduce CD of revival from artifcat will also be quite strong. You could have Revival available every 80s.

The new 7.2 boots will still be very strong. You should propably keep the 2P T19 bonus and go to a haste/cc build with it.

With the 7.2 patch the list of crap leg is short. With the exception to collidus, all are at the level of Prydaz now.

PS:
Mistwalk back on PTR with a huge boost to the healing (x4) but now only 1 charge every 45s.

[Myta]

It's hard to know yet how much better MW will be in 7.2, but every class is getting similar gold traits that buff their artifact ability. I think Blizzard might be mistakenly thinking that Sheilun's is balanced. And as far as I'm aware (Since I haven't had time to test on the PTR), the cleaving effects on Gift are only based on actual healing, which in a raid setting is almost all overheal.

Also in Mythic+ when you need a fat chunky heal sometimes, Sheilun's is way, way too slow. It just feels odd with Druids, Paladins and Shamans having artifact abilities that are an active part of their healing, and Sheilun's is a struggle to even find worth in casting it.

I'm also tired of Blizzard relying on traits and tier sets to fix us because we aren't given the design love of other healing specs.

[Spotnick]

Resto shaman and Holy Paladin artifact abilities are also even longer casts... but they are aoe heals. Ours has a long cast but can be cast more often based on how powerful you want it to be.

If anything, it's the resto druid one that is just too good.

Doesn't mean ours is useful though, it's just not usable very well in raids due to similar casts being much quicker from other healers.

[Rakoth]

Honestly, I am not holding my breath for 7.2. I like the changes to legendaries, but Coloidus is still staying in my bags (I have chest and Prydaz).

They stated there will be no changes to classes before 7.2.5. I am really hoping that they are holding out on giving out info about 7.2.5, because they don't want to ruin the hype for 7.2. I think there will be a data dump once the next raid tier opens about the balance. I am hoping, but the chances are slim, since they barely acknowledged our problems.

Now, I actually have a MWer question. I just got my 4 piece (locked to legs, helm, gloves and shoulders, since I have drape and artifact chest). The problem is that it's the LFR versions (Normal / heroics have been very stingy). Replacing my helm wasn't a big deal, but the legs (also Raid Finder) are a 20 iLvl decrease, and based on my weights, a 20% decrease.

How much is the 4 piece bonus worth? In a raid setting.

[Myta]

Resto shaman and Holy Paladin artifact abilities are also even longer casts... but they are aoe heals. Ours has a long cast but can be cast more often based on how powerful you want it to be.

If anything, it's the resto druid one that is just too good.

Doesn't mean ours is useful though, it's just not usable very well in raids due to similar casts being much quicker from other healers.

Shaman's is an aoe heal without a # cap, which in clump fights scales a lot better than Holy or Resto's aoe. But it is just a basic splash heal. But HPal is good in that they can use it as a mini raid cooldown w/ Wings in anticipation of huge burst like on Anomaly. (though Resto Druid's is best overall). HPriest is just an always active effect.

But it's hard to find worthwhile moments to cast Sheilun's which is just depressing overall. But it fits the fantasy of Mistweaver being a spec frankenstein'd from various healer-y bits with duct tape and a coat hanger. (It's still a class I love despite being such an unloved healer by Blizz).

[ribthanwa]

How much is the 4 piece bonus worth? In a raid setting.

A lot.

/10char