Mass burnout.

[Deleted]

But if i get you right, then its not even an burnout ... this is then called "i dont care anymore"
the OP means he is burning out bcs of the M+ farmin, farming, grinding, grinding.

for me these are differents. i also suffer from bad luck. But i dont grind for it ^^
if i get something, then i get something. The chances to get something good is equal to if im grinding or not grinding.

Don't caring is a form of burnout, I think. I know I was caring about many things a couple of expansions before. Now, they seem pointless to me, though I know that technically they are still important for the performance of my character in game. I burnt out with trying to get the best gear, and now I don't even try.

[Riistov]

I've seen this happen quite a bit. What you also may be seeing is the snowball effect of a couple popular members of the guild taking breaks/quitting. I've seen this happen a few times, you have a few people in the guild that like to set up events, throw stuff together on the fly, are really social, etc. When these people leave, it creates a snowball effect where the other members of the guild are less engaged without these people around. When they're not engaged, a few may start getting bored and stop logging in.

Just a trend I have noticed in my years of playing. Most of the time, they'll be back when the patch hits. Good luck OP!

[Derecho]

I don't know if it was because of spring break these last two weeks, but we have experienced basically what the OP is experiencing.

At the end of February, we had more than 30 people on to fill our Heroic runs, then we had to reduce the raid size to 20 for mythics. This was fine, because we always carried a few guildies for the Heroic runs.

However, these past two weeks, we've had less than 20 people online for mythic and for heroics. The number of people on just playing the game during non-raid times has also declined heavily.

Not looking forward to the next couple of weeks!

[topmaymay]

mythic guilds are dying left and right on my server. why? burnout + nighthold being "too hard" for their guild.

I think the tuning for mythic NH is a bit out of whack. first 3 bosses are a joke then you hit spellblade and krosus which aren't "easy". we've had apps to our guild (8/10M) claim they had ~200 wipes on Krosus. botanist can be hard depending on your comp and tichondrius is usually hit or miss for a lot of guilds. then you get to Augur which takes some guilds 250+ pulls, even with 905+ ilvl avg.

[RuneDK]

And then people who can't log on during reset day gets fucked over because of the same thing that happens. "Hey guys I got this keystone wanna help." *inserts crickets here.*

This is such a shitty argument. Group finder exists, they could easily use that. There's millions of people who play wow, and those same people use the group finder.

[Luko]

All of my try-hard guildies seem to have trickled off in the last month as well, yet the far more casual three-times-a-week players are still more than happy to log in. It's almost as if burning yourself out on something leads to feelings of burnout.

[Grimnakh]

So whats the real problem here? NH was tuned assuming a lot of people would have 54 traits and would have a mix of base ilvl herioc and some TF/WF gear from herioc and orher sources. They werent honest about it, and thats just a dumb move on their part. But what it boils down to is that NH mythic after the first 3 bosses is hard, and the gear upgrades every week past 905 gear and 54 traits are slow so your ability to outgear the encounter to compensate for, lets be honest, not being one of the top tier of players in the game has been slowed dramatically from previous xpacs. Certainly world firsts were not that slow to happen, the top players in the game were able to down Gul'Dan without a handicap of overall gear 5-10ilvls above whats really needed The mediocre mythic raiders hit a skill wall and start spamming mythic +s for a small chance at an upgrade, and burn out. Then they get frustrated and flame the forums and attack the people peacefully enjoying the content as it is, because they feel entitled to those kills by now.

They want the content just exclusive enough that it allows them to finish it, but without others just slightly less skilled/prepared from being able to to maintain its prestige. Of course then you have your weekend warriors who got pampered by expantions that mostly only required them to raid to have the best character progression. That system coddled a lot of lazy, and underperforming players by assuring they were only responsible for 5% of a raid effort or less, and could still quickly get stepped up gear and overgear mythic (or its equivalent) enough to get carried instead of also requiring ability in content that was 20-100% their responsibility. (mythic + and AP progression).

Good hard working mythic raiders are frustrated because they have trouble finding enough other players like themselves of course.

People that aren't fixated on Bis badges of completion are enjoying the game, playing it for what it is, and enjoying the mountains of content that exist.

Mythic raid clearing is actually prestigious again, at the cost of pain to a fair number of previously privledged players that didnt deserve to be doing the top content in the first place.

You have endless opportunity to break into a good mythic raid group because of being able to gear up outside a mythic raid group. If you have the skill and work ethic its something thats earnable, and thats how the game should be.

[Myta]

More people have burned out on 2 months of Nighthold than 1+ year of SoO.

It's time to admit that the Nighthold raid is horribly tuned, the fights are covered up with gallons of auto-death mechanics to hide the fact that the fights themselves are mechanically not up to par with HFC. That there is no true 'Progress' to 'Farm' progression, causing every week to feel like an absolutely tiring slog while you wipe to bosses for inane reasons that have been on farm for weeks. That the only thing stopping you from killing new bosses is a horribly implemented trait restriction that artificially inflates clear times even further and crushes guild progress and upward mobility for mythic guilds.

Tomb cannot be the absolute burning garbage fire that is Nighthold or Legion will implode.

[Grimnakh]

More people have burned out on 2 months of Nighthold than 1+ year of SoO.

It's time to admit that the Nighthold raid is horribly tuned, the fights are covered up with gallons of auto-death mechanics to hide the fact that the fights themselves are mechanically not up to par with HFC. That there is no true 'Progress' to 'Farm' progression, causing every week to feel like an absolutely tiring slog while you wipe to bosses for inane reasons that have been on farm for weeks. That the only thing stopping you from killing new bosses is a horribly implemented trait restriction that artificially inflates clear times even further and crushes guild progress and upward mobility for mythic guilds.

Tomb cannot be the absolute burning garbage fire that is Nighthold or Legion will implode.

"Its supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard everyone would do it. Its the hard that makes it great."

[IceMan1763]

"Its supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard everyone would do it. Its the hard that makes it great."

What's hard is having a job or a life and meeting the pre-raid requirements (AP, Legendaries, and TF procs) for 20 people to stand a chance to defeat the bosses (past the first 3) the way they are tuned.

Keep pretending it takes skill though if it boosts your self esteem.

[Deleted]

All of my try-hard guildies seem to have trickled off in the last month as well, yet the far more casual three-times-a-week players are still more than happy to log in. It's almost as if burning yourself out on something leads to feelings of burnout.

That is normal with basically anything. The problem with LEGION is that the burnouts, atleast to some extend, can be attributed to the flawed raid design and RNG.

[smaktat]

"Waaah, I put words in people's mouthes because they say what I want them to, waahh!"

Damn this kid is super pist lmao!

[Kallisto]

This is such a shitty argument. Group finder exists, they could easily use that. There's millions of people who play wow, and those same people use the group finder.

Because let's not pretend group finder isn't always "This thing is based around people having ilevel x so let's make a minimum for pug to enter being X + 20 minimum."

Here's an idea. Let people play how they want, if playing means gaining power then yay. If someone is burning out then maybe just maybe learn that well play less. Stop your precious ego of "needing to keep up." when even if you're bottom it doesn't matter. Turn off your emotion.

[Halyon]

Damn this kid is super pist lmao!

...you realize I was poking fun at them, yes?

[RuneDK]

Because let's not pretend group finder isn't always "This thing is based around people having ilevel x so let's make a minimum for pug to enter being X + 20 minimum."

Here's an idea. Let people play how they want, if playing means gaining power then yay. If someone is burning out then maybe just maybe learn that well play less. Stop your precious ego of "needing to keep up." when even if you're bottom it doesn't matter. Turn off your emotion.

Considering this is the easiest expansion ever to get gear your point is again moot. If there's a weekly lockout on nighthold why is there not one on an alternative path to high Ilvl gear? It doesn't make sense. I don't even use M+ for gear, but have been getting into groups easily as a dps. Even if you put caps on gear drops from M+ it would be easy as all hell to gear. The only thing I do agree on is people need to have more self control, however that doesn't mean they should keep+ the way it is.

[Grimnakh]

What's hard is having a job or a life and meeting the pre-raid requirements (AP, Legendaries, and TF procs) for 20 people to stand a chance to defeat the bosses (past the first 3) the way they are tuned.

Keep pretending it takes skill though if it boosts your self esteem.

Its gear/traits x skill. There arent enough obtainable advantages early on for anyone but the most skilled to down a new mythic raid. Later on the proportion of skill va gear gets more and more on the gear side. You know its ok not to be doing mythic raids. If you have no time for gearing and AP but are very good at the game you will still get more out of the game per hour played than someone else. I dont mythic raid because I havent found a group I like personality wise that mythic raids, so I hang out in my herioc crz group who I can hang out with in discord and do other things with. Mythic raiding should be very hard and you shouldnt be able to trivialize it with gear until the next raid comes out. I like that there's something for the high end achievement players or me if I want to go that road at some point again.

[IceMan1763]

I dont mythic raid

This is the reality of every player like you who comes in here talking about how great these new systems are.

I'm at least glad you finally admitted it.

[Varaben]

At least part of the burnout is because Blizzard isn't artificially capping AP every week.

They are in a total lose-lose situation. Either they play it how they've been, and people burn themselves out (no AP cap, so you can play and play and play). Or they create artificial caps and people complain about being "forced" to hit the cap every day/week/month and decry blizzard for their "money-grabs" by timegating content.

You just can't help people from themselves.

Another aspect of this is the lfr/norm/heroic/mythic system. Repeating the same content on various difficulties is going to create burnout every time. Instead of providing "choice" as this looks to be, it creates burnout. Combine this with the war-forged system, and you incentivize people for playing multiple difficulties, accelerating burnout.

[Grimnakh]

This is the reality of every player like you who comes in here talking about how great these new systems are.

I'm at least glad you finally admitted it.

I raided mythic in wod and used to raid the top tier raids in BC before I took a break from WoW. Legion mythic raiders complaining about AP grinds have nothing to complain about. They got spoiled in WoD due to the facebook game nature of the xpansion, and have progressively had busier lives outside of game. The game doesnt require more time now/less grinding, it requires less, but people want to be at the same progression level playing half the time they used to, and thats just not realistic.

Ive also never hidden the fact that Im currently not mythic raiding, but Im not going to disclaimer every post I make with that. I enjoyed WoD a lot less being in a mythic raid group than I do Legion in a friendly herioc group now.

[kamuimac]

This is the reality of every player like you who comes in here talking about how great these new systems are.

I'm at least glad you finally admitted it.

and ? why do you think you opinion mater more just because you raid mythic ? if anything opinion of mythic raiders is more irrelevant since they make up for 2-5 % of playerbase. any dev catering to such small audience instead masses deserves to be imidiately fired ad hes completly clueless buisnesswise.