Old Class Strengths/Weaknesses and Niches

[Xkiller9000]

Blizzard over the years has tried to emphasize "Bring the player, not the class". Which while is good for players in general, has its flaws. Imo, because of this design philosophy, many classes have lost their identity.

For those unfamiliar with this, let me explain. If we take a look back at WoTLK, every class had a niche, where some fights you really wanted this, and others, not so much. If we look at tanking, Druids were THE single target big hp pool tank, Prot Pallys were THE aoe tank. In healing, Holy Pallys were THE tank healers. While all classes could do everything, some classes just did things better than the rest, while being weaker in other spots. You didnt NEED a Holy Pally for tank healing, or a prot pally for aoe tanking, but it made it a lot easier. You didnt NEED a bear to soak certain mechanics, but it was easier with one.

I personally feel that this type of style is better for the game, and something I'd like to see again. Not to the extent of Vanilla, or even BC, but enough to make it so that some boss fights make you go "Damn, I can do that better than the others, my class is the best for this and that". And for me, it only made me love my class that much more.

Thoughts?

EDIT: TL;DR: A simpler way to explain it from the first comment "Every class shouldn't have a thing that makes them better than the other class, they should have something that makes them different."

[Lochton]

Unsure if on purpose, else, no.

Every class shouldn't have a thing that makes them better than the other class, they should have something that makes them different.

[Soulwell]

Most classes do have niche things, and are used for said niche things. But after a while it isn't needed and you just ram your face into it. Or you get something like warlocks that were used as summons and health stones. Then sat, now health stones heal for nothing and people just run to the instance.

[Xkiller9000]

Most classes do have niche things, and are used for said niche things. But after a while it isn't needed and you just ram your face into it. Or you get something like warlocks that were used as summons and health stones. Then sat, now health stones heal for nothing and people just run to the instance.

No tank these days is the ST or the AoE tank, no healer is the tank healer, pallies are still good at tank healing, but anyone can do it fine

[Super Kami Dende]

Your point is incorrect on some accounts. Yes there were classes that had Pro/Con niche's, but there were some that excelled at basically all aspects. Which caused lots of Class Stacking or Class priorities.

For example, in Wrath Hunters specs had both great AoE and ST whereas other Classes excelled at only one or the Other. You could still argue now that different classes are better across different Niches anyway, since some excel at AoE but lack the ST others do.

[Rogalicus]

The only specialization we get today is melee DPS being better at tunneling and AoE burst, while ranged DPS are better at dealing with mechanics.

[Super Kami Dende]

No tank these days is the ST or the AoE tank, no healer is the tank healer, pallies are still good at tank healing, but anyone can do it fine

But some Tanks are better at reducing Physical Damage or Magic Damage. Some healers are HoT and some are Direct. There are still niches.

- - - Updated - - -

The only specialization we get today is melee DPS being better at tunneling and AoE burst, while ranged DPS are better at dealing with mechanics.

That's not true at all.

[Xkiller9000]

But some Tanks are better at reducing Physical Damage or Magic Damage. Some healers are HoT and some are Direct. There are still niches.

Minimally though, for the tanks

And the healers being hot/direct isnt a niche, thats just a playstyle

[Super Kami Dende]

Minimally though, for the tanks

And the healers being hot/direct isnt a niche, thats just a playstyle

/facepalm.

[Deleted]

I'm still glad Warlocks retained their class fantasy of being tanky-casters. I guess that counts as "niche".
Affliction is pretty much "strong independent DPS who needs no healer". See: Soloing normal Nythendra like tanks with self heals do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Helps healers to focus on like mages standing in fire instead

[Kuntantee]

Yeah, I prefer imbalanced class design over copy pasta

[Chasavaqe]

Minimally though, for the tanks

And the healers being hot/direct isnt a niche, thats just a playstyle

What??? HoT is better for slow, constant damage, while direct heals are better for bursty damage.

[papajohn4]

yes, and I would also take it even further, back to TBC where classes were even more "unique" than WotLK. Shadow priest didnt had the damage of a mage or rogue or warrior, but it was a mana battery for the healers.. Also class buffs meant something, were powerful and you really needed them. It also mattered how to form party groups within a raid to take the most advantage of your classes.

Now it doesn't matter if I play Mage, warlock, boomkin or shadow priest, they are all just casters...

[Xkiller9000]

yes, and I would also take it even further, back to TBC where classes were even more "unique" than WotLK. Shadow priest didnt had the damage of a mage or rogue or warrior, but it was a mana battery for the healers.. Also class buffs meant something, were powerful and you really needed them. It also mattered how to form party groups within a raid to take the most advantage of your classes.

Now it doesn't matter if I play Mage, warlock, boomkin or shadow priest, they are all just casters...

to an extent yea.

the spriest mana battery, the paladin utility/buffs, rets mana returns

[Darsithis]

I will always favor bring the player, not the class. I value that people I raid with for their abilities over the gimmicks their class may have. I'd rather take our best raiders than sit out someone who is great in favor of a mediocre player who happens to have the "best" class.

There is one really good reason why spreading around class abilities can be good: you can design even more varied raid bosses. Bosses can split into 2, 3, or even 4 groups and your team can still have a battle rez in each one, or special tank-related abilities, or efficient cleave or AOE healing because those traits are spread around the entire raid. It really helps that I can rez (blood DK) someone in my group while the druid healer can handle the other group far away. It helps that we can send a mage with one side and a shaman with the other and both can lust.

[Sanguinerd]

Having classes be unique and actually different from one another is what actually made the game FUN(dangerous word I know). Having some classes excell over others at certain things is perfectly fine, so yes I definitely agree.

The only thing that makes people different nowadays are the colors on the recount bar...

[Aleax]

Old Class Strengths/Weaknesses and Niches

It's all good that this is gone, because I can't recall strengths and weaknesses were equally shared between all classes.

For example in PvP in BC era, warriors eat rogues, but warriors were eaten by wizards, and guess what, wizards were not eaten by rogues. Or the worst spec that I did played, Ret paladins, who excelled at nothing, or in pvp, were the vh of all.

All in all, I agree with you OP, but this has to be made wayyy differently than in BC (or wrath). In the waiting, I like the current system which is bring the player not the class, well the current system is nice enough to me now.

[Frolk]

Minimally though, for the tanks

And the healers being hot/direct isnt a niche, thats just a playstyle

Maybe for LFR, but not for mythic raids.

[Tiberria]

What??? HoT is better for slow, constant damage, while direct heals are better for bursty damage.

This is only the case if HoT healers do significantly more total healing than direct heal based healers. Otherwise, in what situation is it better so slowly heal up damage when you can just heal it all at once with direct heals? Even if you can afford to wait for a HoT to tick, why would you ever choose to if you had the option to (efficiently without burning through mana) top the player up in 2 seconds? The bottom line is that direct healing is just better than a HoT in every way if it does the same amount.

At any rate, the fact that HoT healers don't shit all over direct healing based healers in most cases pretty much invalidates the notion of a "Hot healing niche". It's just a difference in the way healing specs heal, not a fundamental "role".

I also laugh at people that say Holy Paladins were not required in WoTLK. That is 100% wrong; they were actually more mandatory back then than they were now, because tanks literally got trucked in WoTLK. WoTLK healing was designed around tanks going 100-0 in a GCD or two, and all healing specs were essentially designed around mana being a non issue and sitting there spamming a single spell 90% of the time (Rejuv, PWS, Chain Heal, Holy Light). If you didn't have an HPally or two to sit there spamming HL into tanks non stop, they would probably get virtually globaled. It was a lot more unforgiving in terms of healing comp (or at least in terms of tank healing) than it is today.

[Niwes]

i agree to every single word op said.

the homogenization of the classes, even with their Legion "class fantasy" is horrible. the game lost MUCH of its deep, its feeling and its quality, through this.

but the most weird thing is:

years ago, there wasnt that many (masses) of people that cried:

"omg they dont take me with them bc i am not class <insert name here>! omg!".

sorry, but i didnt saw them. ofc there were that top 10 percent raiders that had that problems. but the masses? the normal standard guilds? nope. so, they catered to that top 10 percent. they "brought the player not the class" to a lot of ppl that didnt care and catered to a small minority and made them happy. fine. pro raiders were happy.

now comes the weird thing:

EXACTLY the same small minority is pissed of these days by blizz, which let them farm AP, grind for their life, and run maw of souls a1000 times. that minority they catered to, a few years ago, and killed class diversity for all others, is the same minority they piss into the face these days, while doing RNG legendaries, titanforged, relics, AP, mythics+ etc to them

this is horrible weird in my eyes.

its like "hey jeff, lets cater to that crazy jerks and piss of everybody else and ruin our game. and then, few years after, lets piss on that crazy jerks too, lol! funny jeff, isnt it?"