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  1. #61
    For me, WOTLK was the last great xpac. We got some great features in xpacs following it (things like account wide mounts, transmog, pet battles), but the xpacs after wotlk have all made great leaps away from the "feel" I got from Vanilla-BC-WOTLK. As much as people extol the virtues of MoP, I think it did tremendous damage to the game. Things like making dungeons irrelevant, gating everything behind rep that was gated behind dailies, requiring rep to actually spend the valor you earned, and my personal pet peeve that still exists today... rune of power. Some of that was eventually fixed but ultimately from MoP and beyond is when I lost confidence that Blizzard could provide me with a product I could fully enjoy. WoD was even more damaging to the game. I will say though that legion made great strides in repairing that damage.

    Every xpac since Cata though, has been change for the sake of change. As far as I can tell Blizzard hasn't made much effort to "keep old nostalgia". From my perspective its been a constant routine of: new xpac, invalidate all efforts that came before, change for the sake of change, because round wheels are old and we need a new shape of wheel regardless of how well round wheels work, treadmill till new xpac, rinse and repeat. About the only consistency I can expect from WoW now is that few things will remain consistent from xpac to xpac.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2017-03-20 at 08:10 PM.

  2. #62
    People have missed "old WoW" ever since we first went through the Dark Portal over 10 years ago now.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulosio View Post
    Also what do you mean "lately" you've seen a lot of people saying they've been missing old wow. Loads of people have been going on about how BC, wotlk etc. was better than whatever the current xpac is for years.
    Agreed. People, right from the launch of BC, were saying "I miss old WoW" so nothing has really changed there.

    For me, personally, WoW changed too much from what it was with Cataclysm, and I haven't enjoyed it since. Again, that's 100% personal and not a declaration of "This era is better by fact" just one stating, "This era of WoW was better by my opinion." If I could have classic servers locked in to Vanilla, TBC, or WotLK I would personally love them more than the, again my opinion, crap we're getting today. Now it's not to say that there aren't things in each expansion I've liked, but expansions as a whole, I've found Cata on to be extremely lackluster.

  4. #64
    Deleted
    casuals like the new WoW. You get the best items in the game by doing the easiest (or any for that matter) content.

    It is hard for "newer" and "casual" players to understand what made old WoW great. For many it is hard to grasp and understand the concept of purity and authenticity that was connected with the game back then.

    World of Warcraft is definitively too far away from their roots, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. From my point of view I hate it, but from Blizzards point of view it is smart business. You have locked everything behind time (time gated) and RNG. People feel forced to be subscribed for longer to finally get that legendary they always wanted. People feel forced to grind AP, because they haven't finished their weapon yet.
    In LEGION everything is designed to keep people playing. If you are smart you see that basically every decision they make (or rather made) is to have people continue paying money.

    The more I play LEGION the more apparant it gets. The more I notice the design flaws. But World of Warcraft is a product from a profit oriented company. It is only "natural" that they would focus on how to keep the casual masses playing and that is by gating everything and giving even the worst player a chance of getting good items.
    It doesn't matter if you play a Demon Hunter named "VénômKîllidan" and failed to install the game 10 times and finally someone from the computer store helped you. You can still get 925 titanforged items from LFR and legendaries. And to keep you playing they gate stuff like LFR, they gate your artifact knowledge.

    Blizzard doesn't solely gate artifact knowledge so that players have a chance to catch up or aren't forced to play much (I mean that is a nice side effect), but a big reason is that they have something that even the most hardcore players can't easily beat. You won't be able to finish your new weapon in 7.2 in a short time by doing thousands of m+ or other content. Blizzard doesn't want you to be finished. People who are finished and aren't occupied by doing something are getting bored and consider something else.

    A game like classic WoW wouldn't work anymore in 2017. We have all ruined our attention span (mostly because of the internet, web videos that are 6 seconds long, funny pictures, smiles and memes instead of words). We need something new every few weeks. We consume so fast that we cannot enjoy purity or great design anymore. It is quantity over quality. It is rehashed content over innovation. It is repetitive endless content that clouds our view.

    The number one reason why people are divided over LEGION versus classic WoW is because you have 2 camps.

    - You have the purists that are also somewhat blinded by nostalgia, but they remember what made WoW great back then. They forgot that classic World of Warcraft wouldn't work anymore in 2017 as a profitable product. They remember what it felt like when content was designed because people are inexperienced, technically limited and needed to solve problems with creativity. They loved bringing their ideas to life. They were pure because they didn't know better.

    - and on the other side you have the people who are either casuals and love being rewarded for next to no effort and the people who just love anything or just started with WoW.

    With that being said I am not saying LEGION is the worst thing there is. I am just saying when you are smart enough to differentiate, thinking for yourself, you can see that while LEGION may have a shiny appearance on the surface, but underneath it is a rotten foundation of greedy intentions and forced work.


    TL;DR you have a short attention span my friend.

  5. #65
    Honestly I like many parts of every expansion, everything always changes and that is the key part.
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  6. #66
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    casuals like the new WoW. You get the best items in the game by doing the easiest (or any for that matter) content.

    It is hard for "newer" and "casual" players to understand what made old WoW great. For many it is hard to grasp and understand the concept of purity and authenticity that was connected with the game back then.

    World of Warcraft is definitively too far away from their roots, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. From my point of view I hate it, but from Blizzards point of view it is smart business. You have locked everything behind time (time gated) and RNG. People feel forced to be subscribed for longer to finally get that legendary they always wanted. People feel forced to grind AP, because they haven't finished their weapon yet.
    In LEGION everything is designed to keep people playing. If you are smart you see that basically every decision they make (or rather made) is to have people continue paying money.

    The more I play LEGION the more apparant it gets. The more I notice the design flaws. But World of Warcraft is a product from a profit oriented company. It is only "natural" that they would focus on how to keep the casual masses playing and that is by gating everything and giving even the worst player a chance of getting good items.
    It doesn't matter if you play a Demon Hunter named "VénômKîllidan" and failed to install the game 10 times and finally someone from the computer store helped you. You can still get 925 titanforged items from LFR and legendaries. And to keep you playing they gate stuff like LFR, they gate your artifact knowledge.

    Blizzard doesn't solely gate artifact knowledge so that players have a chance to catch up or aren't forced to play much (I mean that is a nice side effect), but a big reason is that they have something that even the most hardcore players can't easily beat. You won't be able to finish your new weapon in 7.2 in a short time by doing thousands of m+ or other content. Blizzard doesn't want you to be finished. People who are finished and aren't occupied by doing something are getting bored and consider something else.

    A game like classic WoW wouldn't work anymore in 2017. We have all ruined our attention span (mostly because of the internet, web videos that are 6 seconds long, funny pictures, smiles and memes instead of words). We need something new every few weeks. We consume so fast that we cannot enjoy purity or great design anymore. It is quantity over quality. It is rehashed content over innovation. It is repetitive endless content that clouds our view.

    The number one reason why people are divided over LEGION versus classic WoW is because you have 2 camps..
    - You have the purists that are also somewhat blinded by nostalgia, but they remember what made WoW great back then. They forgot that classic World of Warcraft wouldn't work anymore in 2017 as a profitable product. They remember what it felt like when content was designed because people are inexperienced, technically limited and needed to solve problems with creativity. They loved bringing their ideas to life. They were pure because they didn't know better.

    - and on the other side you have the people who are either casuals and love being rewarded for next to no effort and the people who just love anything or just started with WoW.

    With that being said I am not saying LEGION is the worst thing there is. I am just saying when you are smart enough to differentiate, thinking for yourself, you can see that while LEGION may have a shiny appearance on the surface, but underneath it is a rotten foundation of greedy intentions and forced work.


    TL;DR you have a short attention span my friend.
    Honestly the best and most genuine post I have seen on mmo-champ.
    But be prepared to get some rage from casuals, because you shattered their world

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    No you wouldn't, mostly because it's almost impossible (read: extremely hard depending on how new server is and how many characters it hoards) from technical standpoint, you can't just copy>paste characters without conflicts happening, that's why character transfer took so long to implement and for first time it was really long almost manually done process (well, the last part i've got from an excuse for why my character transfer took more than 2 weeks of fucking time)
    I mean... just because it's a hard process doesn't mean I wouldn't want them to do it. They HAVE done it already. My old TBC server of Fenris is no longer Fenris but is like... Dragonblight connected realms now. That's fine by me.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    You read correctly. The important major ones are gone, gone, gone.




    Some stuff cannot be obtained in-game. It didn't used to be that way, years ago. In older versions, everything you got, you earned in-game. Period. If you enjoy defending cash-shops (essentially DLC), cheers for you. Forgive me for not saluting yourself.

    The stuff that can be bought from the cash-shop and re-sold on the AH, amounts to PTW. Deny away.

    Many of the original team are still around, some have even come back in the last couple of years.

    Only ONE item you can buy in the game shop can be sold on the AH. Everything else is bound to the account the moment it is bought.

    Want to go for strike 3?
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    PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska."
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  9. #69
    The Patient Vespene's Avatar
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    I think people who look back at "what made vanilla great" are looking at what the game was back then instead of what the game MEANT back then.

    For the younger crowd, please put yourself in my shoes in 2004 for a second. The closest thing to WoW back then was EQ2 which lined up with WoW's release. Before that there were other MMOs that were rough around the edges to say the least. Along comes WoW and shatters everything you expected out of an MMO. You could jump, swim and adventure solo, all while exploring a seamless open world. You could go from Duskwood to Elwynn to Stormwind without going through a load screen. The quests chained together and were easy to understand. Dungeon instances created more personal adventures for groups to bond together, forming great guild experiences. All this being elevated by the Warcraft stories which were galvanized by legions of series fans. It was an awakening of sorts. A game you always dreamed about existing, suddenly playable at your fingertips. That is what made WoW special back then, and why no amount of expansions or design changes could bring that back.

    The things that people raved about back then aren't a big deal now. Just read this review from Gamespot back in 2004:
    http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/worl.../1900-6114072/

    TL;DR: Expansions will never make you feel the game is as good as it was in 2004. That would take a new, revolutionary and entirely different MMO.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespene View Post
    I think people who look back at "what made vanilla great" are looking at what the game was back then instead of what the game MEANT back then.

    For the younger crowd, please put yourself in my shoes in 2004 for a second. The closest thing to WoW back then was EQ2 which lined up with WoW's release. Before that there were other MMOs that were rough around the edges to say the least. Along comes WoW and shatters everything you expected out of an MMO. You could jump, swim and adventure solo, all while exploring a seamless open world. You could go from Duskwood to Elwynn to Stormwind without going through a load screen. The quests chained together and were easy to understand. Dungeon instances created more personal adventures for groups to bond together, forming great guild experiences. All this being elevated by the Warcraft stories which were galvanized by legions of series fans. It was an awakening of sorts. A game you always dreamed about existing, suddenly playable at your fingertips. That is what made WoW special back then, and why no amount of expansions or design changes could bring that back.
    I came to WoW from City of Heroes, and the seamless transition between zones was a huge improvement.

    Instance content didn't feel new as City of Heroes had that too , in a form of missions with random layouts with certain themes and enemy types.

    Mind you City of heroes was 2004 as well, only 6 months before US WoW release. But it still got awards.

    The game got many awards in 2004 which were taken over by WoW in 2005.
    Last edited by Teri; 2017-03-20 at 09:16 PM.

  11. #71
    title of the thread is misleading.

    "gone to far to keep old nostalgia" ?

    blizzard has done zero, nothing whatsoever to keep any nostalgia. Mudflation happens at a rate unparalleled in other games. Old zones, content, entire continents are rendered so obsolete with each expansion that they might as well remove them and call the expansions sequels.

    the game itself went from a casual mmo to some kinda faux mmo/moba hybrid. Any remnant of immersion or rpg-like gameplay, never mind core mmo tenets have been purged long since vanilla.

    theyve added layer upon layer upon layer of quality of life changes meant to placate and coddle the revolving door of entitled/instant gratification seeking kiddos who will sub only to unsub again a few months later.

    yea... Pantheon could you please get into beta already.

  12. #72
    Deleted
    I was a teenager when wow came out, i was new to MMOs, i have so many memories attached to that time, everything was more of a mystery, today there is so much information, back then there was shitty thottbot instead of wowhead and no youtube.

    Now i dont have friends in wow anymore, we are all grown up and most have kids and a steady job, cant 24/7 grind anymore, of course we feel that the game "sucks" now.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    People have missed "old WoW" ever since we first went through the Dark Portal over 10 years ago now.
    This is the most accurate post on this thread.

    The below linked GameSpot thread from 9 years ago. (Source)

    Nothing new here.

  14. #74
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    New developers .. new direction.

    The game is tuned to generate money nowadays, rather than provide a solid experience.

    13 -7 years ago focus = GAME EXPERIENCE, VASTNESS, IMMERSION.

    7 years ago to Now = GAME, INCOMING MONEY, MORE MONEY. EVEN MORE MONEY AFTER THAT. THX.

    Oh well

    EDIT:
    Off note - what does the title even remotely have to do with your post? /boggle
    I feel more immersion Storywise with Legion than I did with Vanilla and TBC.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denied View Post

    Now i dont have friends in wow anymore, we are all grown up and most have kids and a steady job, cant 24/7 grind anymore, of course we feel that the game "sucks" now.
    This is a huge factor for me too, always played with guilds 2004-2013, now I feel alienated after a 3 year break, most of the people I knew are gone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Dracula View Post
    I feel more immersion Storywise with Legion than I did with Vanilla and TBC.
    Story and theme is great in Legion, for me one of the strong points of the expansion, loved Suramar as well.

    But I don't feel immersed with other people from random CRZ realms.

  16. #76
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teri View Post
    Story and theme is great in Legion, for me one of the strong points of the expansion, loved Suramar as well.

    But I don't feel immersed with other people from random CRZ realms.
    Yeah the game felt so much more Immersive when I was the only person in a 1 mile radius of my area.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Dracula View Post
    Yeah the game felt so much more Immersive when I was the only person in a 1 mile radius of my area.
    Chat was active, now it's dead, or it's guild recruitment or something from a non-connected realm which is utterly useless.

  18. #78
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teri View Post
    Chat was active, now it's dead, or it's guild recruitment or something from a non-connected realm which is utterly useless.
    neither of which would be any different with or without CRZ.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Dracula View Post
    neither of which would be any different with or without CRZ.
    How is it not different, currently I am looking for a guild, and without CRZ you could at least ask more instead of seeing it's from a different random server.

    Also there's often people asking for help in cities asking for some gold or signing guild charter or recruiting etc, CRZ makes that impossible to join/help them...

  20. #80
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    Nowadays, 15 bucks a month. We get to to see the game; most of the good stuff is in the cash shop. Best mounts in there too, outfits, pets? oh goodness. If I drop 5 grand I can buy from the cash-shop and sell what I buy for in-game gold in the AH .... ooh ... oh isn't that PTW?
    what in the actual fuck are you talking about?


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