Is sub fun in Legion?

[intrinsc]

My op: Compared to previous versions of the subtlety spec, Legion subtlety falls right in the middle. It's more fun than Panda sub but not as fun, or engaging, as WoD sub. Sin this expansion is more fun, to me, than Pandas or WoD sin. Outlaw still doesn't measure up to Pandas or WoD Combat, imo.

[elfporn]

No one is saying things shouldn't change, or that they don't need work.

No one is saying that they didn't do a half-assed job revamping sub.

My opinion and experience is that i enjoy it the way it is now and look forward to changes making it better. I recognize that blizzard has a vision for each spec, and will provide feedback that supports that while moving towards a better experience instead of saying "LULZ MY PVPZ SUX NOW, Y U TERK MY FW AWAY?" or "GIMEE OLD SUB BCK, I SHTI GOLD AND WISH TO AGAIN" or some other such whining feedback.

Basically, give them feedback about how they can make it better within their vision of a rogue spec themed around a shadow-phasing/wielding stealthy rogue.

Also, who ever said it was just you expressing the same opinion? You just tend to be the most obnoxious.

[shoegazing]

Basically, give them feedback about how they can make it better within their vision of a rogue spec themed around a shadow-phasing/wielding stealthy rogue.

v important feedback for blizzard: change your vision of subtlety back to a precise, finesse based, control setup and burst oriented hit & run glass cannon that actually has a reason to go for restealths instead of pressing dance/mongostrike again -- you know, the thing that people who loved playing a rogue so much loved playing

design specs for the people who previously loved playing them, not for people who may try it out for a bit as their 8th character

gg subtlety fixed

[ymirsson]

v important feedback for blizzard: change your vision of subtlety back to a precise, finesse based, control setup and burst oriented hit & run glass cannon that actually has a reason to go for restealths instead of pressing dance/mongostrike again -- you know, the thing that people who loved playing a rogue so much loved playing

design specs for the people who previously loved playing them, not for people who may try it out for a bit as their 8th character

gg subtlety fixed

Now that sounds really promising. And all this unbiased, objective feedback. Maybe you should continue gazing at your shoes instead of ranting about things of the past.

[shoegazing]

one of the best expac blizz release.

all I hear when you say that is

"omg so much content, omg so much class fantasy, love having half my spellbook deleted and replaced with flashier animations on top of dumbed down toolkits!"

[Kalador]

all I hear when you say that is

Look EN, TOV and NH were great raid, there is a shitload to do in open world, m+ is probably one of the best addition to this game. Yes class fantasy is here via order hall quest line and artefact weapon (wow is an RPG fantasy is quit important in RPG).

Sry for your loss, but while you are crying your beloved rogue spec is dead I'm having a blast playing sub in M+ pushing higher and higher keys with my friends...

[elfporn]

v important feedback for blizzard: change your vision of subtlety back to a precise, finesse based, control setup and burst oriented hit & run glass cannon that actually has a reason to go for restealths instead of pressing dance/mongostrike again -- you know, the thing that people who loved playing a rogue so much loved playing

design specs for the people who previously loved playing them, not for people who may try it out for a bit as their 8th character

gg subtlety fixed

It will never happen. They have in the past reverted changes, yes.

But they will never revert a complete spec re-design. They will change and improve on the new design.

[twistedmynd]

Frankly, it's annoying trying to weed through this thread with the same negative poster over and over again. My poor scroll button....

I rerolled away from rogue entirely going into legion. I tested an early version of sub on alpha and it wasn't fun. The quick burst buttons were still there, but the actual numerical burst was shifted into more direct damage being done outside cooldowns. Sub also lost a lot of buttons in the redesign which made it feel too much like the old combat spec. Buttons don't inherently make a spec fun, but for some reason legion sub was just less fun.

I went back after the launch and leveled up my rogue as sub and it was a little better than the early alpha, but it was still felt like WoD sub with less fun.

I ended up going back to ranged dps this xpac because they're more desired in raids anyway. But your question was how are they doing and for me personally, they lost so much I rerolled.

[Mafic]

I'm maining WW but looking to reroll for 7.2 as I don't like the direction the spec is going (more resource starved). I've played my 90ish sub rogue a bit recently, and it's fun: it feels like I have a lot of energy/cp to play with, the animations are cool, seems there's some depth, and rogue is a bit appealing as it's pretty much the only melee that's desired by guilds/raids. On the other hand, Outlaw is the least appealing spec in the game to me (rng) and Assassination seems very energy starved and kinda simple.

I haven't heard much of sub in Legion, Preach gave it a pretty negative preview and most of the sub rogue stuff on youtube seems to be PvP-oriented. Is it fun? Are sub players happy? And very important to me; are there any big frustrations with the spec? For example, as a WW, sometimes our clones don't copy our big spenders and we do less dps than we would normally despite using CDs which is incredibly frustrating.

No.

Sub is only fun with legendaries. Outlaw and Assassination are called boring but they are way more fun without legendaries. Outlaw suffers from performance without legendaries while Sub is not fun and suffers performance without legendaries.

- - - Updated - - -

This garbage doesn't even deserve to be called a rogue anymore after the class butchery that Blizzard pulled. I miss Cata/MoP/WoD Sub every single day.

None of the Rogue specs feel like Rogues.

[Kalador]

None of the Rogue specs feel like Rogues.

I mean sin rogue is basically the same spec it was in MoP / WoD...

[shoegazing]

Look EN, TOV and NH were great raid, there is a shitload to do in open world, m+ is probably one of the best addition to this game. Yes class fantasy is here via order hall quest line and artefact weapon (wow is an RPG fantasy is quit important in RPG).

Sry for your loss, but while you are crying your beloved rogue spec is dead I'm having a blast playing sub in M+ pushing higher and higher keys with my friends...

"blah blah blah pve is fun right now"

thatsnice.gif

[Kalador]

"blah blah blah pve is fun right now"

thatsnice.gif

Yup it's a lot of fun man . Sucks to be a pvp diehard elitist like you... I mean if removing ability was all it took to make toxic player like you quit the game a i say #WORTH IT #GGBLIZZ

[shoegazing]

None of the Rogue specs feel like Rogues.

For some reason this doesn't seem to bother certain persons who aren't capable of experiencing the game outside of their rotations & damage meters.

Yup it's a lot of fun man . Sucks to be a pvp diehard elitist like you... I mean if removing ability was all it took to make toxic player like you quit the game a i say #WORTH IT #GGBLIZZ

you're in this thread gloating that the spec I loved for 12 years was ruined, and somehow this makes me the toxic one? ok lol, have a look in the mirror bud

Now that sounds really promising. And all this unbiased, objective feedback. Maybe you should continue gazing at your shoes instead of ranting about things of the past.

objective feedback is a myth

all of your feedback is biased from your perspective of never even once being above 1500 rating in PvP, for instance.

[ymirsson]

all of your feedback is biased from your perspective of never even once being above 1500 rating, for instance

And people need to be above 1500 rating in wow to be allowed to call out your bs?

That's like telling the bully in scholl he's not allowed to bully you because he has no idea of how to knit a sweater in 45 hours. nice to have, but completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

But hey, maybe repeating it will help. Just as in your quest for changing back the sub spec to your nostalgia vision.

[shoegazing]

And people need to be above 1500 rating in wow to be allowed to call out your bs?

That's like telling the bully in scholl he's not allowed to bully you because he has no idea of how to knit a sweater in 45 hours. nice to have, but completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

But hey, maybe repeating it will help. Just as in your quest for changing back the sub spec to your nostalgia vision.

it's funny that you think i'm bullshitting when my highest pvp xp on rogue is literally over 1000 rating higher than anything you have ever reached

clearly i don't have any idea what i'm talking about for such an expert as yourself to call me out

enjoy playing your dumbed down trashcan spec, Blizzard redesigned it just for players like you

oh wait you aren't even playing subtlety you play assassin

now stop acting like a freaking elitist know it all

oh my bad i'll pretend to be dumber and less informed than i actually am, will that make you feel better?

[Kalador]

you're in this thread gloating that the spec I loved for 12 years was ruined, and somehow this makes me the toxic one? ok lol, have a look in the mirror bud

But to all people that said they liked the spec and the reason you replied with shity "bla bla bla" ...

You keep arguing only people who should have a say is old school 12 year player or above a pvp rating...

Every were you go it's the same "blizzed killed my spec, devs are crap, only retarded player like sub now...

You are the worst person to defend old sub, you represent exactly the elitst jerk 99% of the player base hate, yes you are toxic, sry to break it to you... Keep crying that sub is ruined guess what it's never coming back....

[shoegazing]

But to all people that said they liked the spec and the reason you replied with shity "bla bla bla" ...

You keep arguing only people who should have a say is old school 12 year player or above a pvp rating...

Every were you go it's the same "blizzed killed my spec, devs are crap, only retarded player like sub now...

You are the worst person to defend old sub, you represent exactly the elitst jerk 99% of the player base hate, yes you are toxic, sry to break it to you... Keep crying that sub is ruined guess what it's never coming back....

literally every high level PvP rogue says Legion Sub is a poorly designed spec. when the opinion is that unanimous among the advanced to expert level players, you have to ask why

you can hide behind your broken record accusations of "wahhh elitism" all you want but the fact is that every single high level pvp rogue in the game wants this spec reverted to a previous version, so there must be some substance to all those complaints...

[Kalador]

literally every high level PvP rogue says Legion Sub is a poorly designed spec. when the opinion is that unanimous among the advanced to expert level players, you have to ask why

you can hide behind your broken record accusations of "wahhh elitism" all you want but the fact is that every single high level pvp rogue in the game wants this spec reverted to a previous version, so there must be some substance to all those complaints...

i could also hide behind " bla bla bla PvP''

Yes your spec might be dead in pvp but instead of going everywhere saying we should bring back old sub (will not happen) and that the new sub that many player like playing is the worst spec ever. Go on the official forum, right a point by point thread on places were sub should be improve, via pvp talent or via other realistic means, in a constructive meaner and maybe they will read it. Probable that nothing will ever happen but if you keep crying that you want old sub back, might as well do nothing cause it's not happening. 100% not happening, not even the slight chance.

TLDR : You either work to improve new sub and hope maybe something change in the way you want, or you keep crying that you want old sub back to be sure nothing will ever change...

[Deleted]

Not a fan of the whole shadow dance charges thing. Also i find it incredibly clunky that SD is on the gcd but maybe Im just too spammy in how i play.

[Coldkil]

Ok, nothing good is coming out from here. If a civil discussion cannot be done, there's no reason to keep this going.