What do you think about the AP reset?

[Teri]

getting to 101 is impossible even with max AK?

Well sort of, it would take you 10 years if you'd get like 800k Current AP every 20 minutes nonstop , calculated for AK50.

Doing trait 37 at AK26 takes as long as trait 61 at AK50, after that it steeply increases.

[Deleted]

Well sort of, it would take you 10 years if you'd get like 800k Current AP every 20 minutes nonstop , calculated for AK50.

Atleast we now know how Blizzard figured out how to keep people playing and paying.
Instead of releasing well designed and beautiful content they increase the artifact traits to an unreachable level

[Aggrophobic]

Do you understand what cleared means?

I do but if you're saying that you cleared NH on mythic without maxed out traits I simply don't belive you.
This is rather pointless at this point. You clearly have no actual knowledge about serious raiding and you seem to be here just to pick fights for no reason.

That or you're simply better than everyone eles. If thats the case, grats. Thats not how the game works for the rest of us however.

[Dukenukem]

Every grind in all history of WoW had some end, sooner,later, harder or easier, but definitive end.
All grinds that rewarded power were seen as "mandatory" to smaller or larger % of the SuperTOP players.

Is it still unclear why people are burning themselves out of AP grinding? We were trained many years into the "must have" system that introducing this kind of endless grinding is literally killing out High Tier raiders and guilds (well, definitely killed my remaining enjoyment of the game).
We all know that this is only affecting about 2-4% of playerbase at most (more likely 1-2% of all WoW pop), but its killing the best... next time you can start shooting anyone who dares to be "better than rest" by sheer hard work and dedication. This reminds me some other really dangerous philosophy that is gripping the real world, but lets not start a political discussion (Neomarxism)

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Atleast we now know how Blizzard figured out how to keep people playing and paying.
Instead of releasing well designed and beautiful content they increase the artifact traits to an unreachable level

Well, I take it as "Finally good reason to quit", and Im definitely not alone.

[Deleted]

I do but if you're saying that you cleared NH on mythic without maxed out traits I simply don't belive you.
This is rather pointless at this point. You clearly have no actual knowledge about serious raiding and you seem to be here just to pick fights for no reason.

That or you're simply better than everyone eles. If thats the case, grats. Thats not how the game works for the rest of us however.

Yes, I'm of the mind that my dinner was harder to prepare than WoW has ever been to play.

Just consider this: it is nearly April now, think about how long you've had to make consistent progress on your artifact weapon. If you had been consistent, week in and week out with just playing the game as you normally would - completing challenging content to the best of your ability and downing your raid bosses and doing LFR, your weapon would be maxed. No doubt about it. And it would never have hindered your progress (skill notwithstanding).


I'm not picking fights, just letting you know that the game is not grindier than its ever been. I can't speak for WoD and MoP but something must have changed in those 2 expansions and people have forgot what it was like before.

[Deleted]

Atleast we now know how Blizzard figured out how to keep people playing and paying.
Instead of releasing well designed and beautiful content they increase the artifact traits to an unreachable level

And they also release well designed and beautiful content, like they did in legion

- - - Updated - - -

Every grind in all history of WoW had some end, sooner,later, harder or easier, but definitive end.
All grinds that rewarded power were seen as "mandatory" to smaller or larger % of the SuperTOP players.

Is it still unclear why people are burning themselves out of AP grinding? We were trained many years into the "must have" system that introducing this kind of endless grinding is literally killing out High Tier raiders and guilds (well, definitely killed my remaining enjoyment of the game).
We all know that this is only affecting about 2-4% of playerbase at most (more likely 1-2% of all WoW pop), but its killing the best... next time you can start shooting anyone who dares to be "better than rest" by sheer hard work and dedication. This reminds me some other really dangerous philosophy that is gripping the real world, but lets not start a political discussion (Neomarxism)

- - - Updated - - -



Well, I take it as "Finally good reason to quit", and Im definitely not alone.

Yeah... with that sort of introduction, let's not. Jesus Christ

[Deleted]

And they also release well designed and beautiful content, like they did in legion

damn. I must have missed it

[Deleted]

damn. I must have missed it

Your loss.

[Grimnakh]

getting to 101 is impossible even with max AK?

Effectively yes, until they raise the AK cap later in the expansion.

[Deleted]

Your loss.

just out of curiosity. What content do you do that would describe as well designed? It definitively can't be PvP and raiding. EN, ToV and especially NH are way worse than previous expansion raids. I hate to say it, but I think the encounters in LEGION so far are so badly designed that Helya is actually the best.
I don't think anyone is going to remember Star Augur, Tichondrius, Skorpyron, Trilliax, Chronomatic Anomaly, Spellblade, Botanist, Elisande and what not. They are simply not memorable.

I mean there is beautiful stuff like some Artifact Weapon Skins, but mechanically and in terms of gameplay and feeling well designed? I don't see it. I mean well designed in the way game design works. Not just the purely aesthetic way of looking at design. I am talking about smart, effective design. About innovation and creativity. About outdoing yourself. Surprising people. Not rehashing was has been done before and slam a different name tag on it.

Well I know that people have different standards and tastes and that is all well and good, but ones standards have to be pretty low to think LEGION is well designed.

I am not saying LEGION is trash. I am enjoying it, although I am at a point where I only log in for raids and one mythic 15 dungeon a week, but I don't remember having put a genuine smile on my face so far.

[Deleted]

Anyone who thought Artifact progression would be done and dusted less than a 1/3 into the expansion is an idiot. Its one of the main features of legion, and I think (thought) it was pretty obvious it would be a progression thing all the way through to the end.

It's also one of the main weaknesses. Peole hate the grind and RNG, but what does Blizz do? More of both! Forcing people to do more of an already pointless grind isn't exactly the best way to bring back lost subs. But I guess there are always crazies who live just to show off how many hours they've grinded. I'm getting too old for that shit I guess.

On top of that, the artifact system takes completely away all the awesomeness of legendary weapons like the Ashbringer. It doesn't hurt those with made-up artifacts that were shat out of nowhere just to give an artifact for each spec. But weapons like the Ashbringer? Another piece of great lore ruined.

[Lastlivingsoul]

just out of curiosity. What content do you do that would describe as well designed? It definitively can't be PvP and raiding. EN, ToV and especially NH are way worse than previous expansion raids. I hate to say it, but I think the encounters in LEGION so far are so badly designed that Helya is actually the best.
I don't think anyone is going to remember Star Augur, Tichondrius, Skorpyron, Trilliax, Chronomatic Anomaly, Spellblade, Botanist, Elisande and what not. They are simply not memorable.

I mean there is beautiful stuff like some Artifact Weapon Skins, but mechanically and in terms of gameplay and feeling well designed? I don't see it. I mean well designed in the way game design works. Not just the purely aesthetic way of looking at design. I am talking about smart, effective design. About innovation and creativity. About outdoing yourself. Surprising people. Not rehashing was has been done before and slam a different name tag on it.

Well I know that people have different standards and tastes and that is all well and good, but ones standards have to be pretty low to think LEGION is well designed.

I am not saying LEGION is trash. I am enjoying it, although I am at a point where I only log in for raids and one mythic 15 dungeon a week, but I don't remember having put a genuine smile on my face so far.

--snip 10m chars

[Varchuti]

know its not adding much, but it seems fine. Just wish ap was a singular EXP bar for your whole character.

[God Save The King]

I think he means that the grind begins again for everyone that's already finished it. I like it, myself, since it's nothing but a power increase - you get the power from 54 if you even have 35, and then go from there. But then, I like the paragon system in D3 (and the merit system in FFXI, if anyone's heard of that); the idea of an endless leveling system after max level just appeals to me. Always a reason to press on, instead of just feeling like you're finished making your character better for a time. But that's just my take on it.

I agree.

It takes a huge number of paragon levels in D3 to really have a major impact, so no one actively grinds levels unless they enjoy it. It's mainly a side effect from running rifts and doing bounties. I think it's a good idea for Blizzard to embrace a similar system. I've always been annoyed at things like badge caps, valor/honor caps, ilvl caps, etc. At a certain point, you've done pretty much everything, so why keep going?

[Grimnakh]

It's also one of the main weaknesses. Peole hate the grind and RNG, but what does Blizz do? More of both! Forcing people to do more of an already pointless grind isn't exactly the best way to bring back lost subs. But I guess there are always crazies who live just to show off how many hours they've grinded. I'm getting too old for that shit I guess.

On top of that, the artifact system takes completely away all the awesomeness of legendary weapons like the Ashbringer. It doesn't hurt those with made-up artifacts that were shat out of nowhere just to give an artifact for each spec. But weapons like the Ashbringer? Another piece of great lore ruined.

More people hate running out of things to do than they do grinds. Its one or the other, no content/fully completeable content or infinite grind. Personally I prefer the infinite grind, as I think the majority does as well even many who complain sometimes about it.

[dexx]

I think he means that the grind begins again for everyone that's already finished it.

Isnt that what every WoW expansion is all about?

[Deleted]

I quit as soon as I realized Blizzard was moving the finish line. Anyone else?

Which finish line? They were quite upfront with AP being a thing for the entire expansion.

It takes quite a mental parathlete to think the current 54 would be all there is for this expansion

[Deleted]

just out of curiosity. What content do you do that would describe as well designed? It definitively can't be PvP and raiding. EN, ToV and especially NH are way worse than previous expansion raids. I hate to say it, but I think the encounters in LEGION so far are so badly designed that Helya is actually the best.
I don't think anyone is going to remember Star Augur, Tichondrius, Skorpyron, Trilliax, Chronomatic Anomaly, Spellblade, Botanist, Elisande and what not. They are simply not memorable.

I mean there is beautiful stuff like some Artifact Weapon Skins, but mechanically and in terms of gameplay and feeling well designed? I don't see it. I mean well designed in the way game design works. Not just the purely aesthetic way of looking at design. I am talking about smart, effective design. About innovation and creativity. About outdoing yourself. Surprising people. Not rehashing was has been done before and slam a different name tag on it.

Well I know that people have different standards and tastes and that is all well and good, but ones standards have to be pretty low to think LEGION is well designed.

I am not saying LEGION is trash. I am enjoying it, although I am at a point where I only log in for raids and one mythic 15 dungeon a week, but I don't remember having put a genuine smile on my face so far.

Questing is good. Dialogues are well written. Themes are handled with mature care instead of being thrown in, in a teenage fit like previous expansions. Dungeons are great, there's loads of them and are all relevant. The zones are extremely well crafted, where interiors are handmade and each somewhat unique. Suramar is a revolutionary work of art for wow. It's stylistically appropriate, fits in like a glove, while being realistic at the same time. If we did have a race of elfves in real life, that's probably how their city would look like. I hope they will include urban settings again. The long quest chain in shal aran delivers moments of deep emotional engagement.
Not sure why you're saying raiding is worst than other expansions. There is no reason why you'd say that. Emerald nightmare is what it is. Nothing remarkable but a cool concept. Trial of valor is a short 3 bosses raid, but nighthold is beautiful. It fits well in the world around it and the bosses are entertaining. Not sure why you'd consider it WAY WORSE than previous expansions.
Also not sure where do you see rehashed material in legion apart from Dalaran.
In terms of systems in place, it allows for a lot of variety at end game, with m+ allowing from an unprecedented way of experiencing raiding "progression". Votw tyrannical +16, second boss felt like a raid. Wiped on it until we got the fight and just kept on going till we nailed it.That's good design right there. The new lfg system, the one in place for m+ is great. It's not as random as lfr or lfg, you can talk to people and see if they're normal or disturbed before starting a run. I've been adding tons of people on my friend list. Hasn't happened since TBC. I regularly meet them again and organise m+ runs with people I've met before.
Overall there's a good balance of everything. It's a great expansion.

[Aggrophobic]

Yes, I'm of the mind that my dinner was harder to prepare than WoW has ever been to play.

Just consider this: it is nearly April now, think about how long you've had to make consistent progress on your artifact weapon. If you had been consistent, week in and week out with just playing the game as you normally would - completing challenging content to the best of your ability and downing your raid bosses and doing LFR, your weapon would be maxed. No doubt about it. And it would never have hindered your progress (skill notwithstanding).


I'm not picking fights, just letting you know that the game is not grindier than its ever been. I can't speak for WoD and MoP but something must have changed in those 2 expansions and people have forgot what it was like before.

The weapons needed to be maxed out a long time ago, not now. Again, the tier is almost over.
Some classes have 3 specs as well.

And you can hardly say that Wrath or Cata had any actual grinds. Some reps maybe but that was over fast. TBC had a bit more but the content was super easy back then and Vanilla was just mess in comparison.

You are simply wrong here.

[Aggrophobic]

You obviously didn't play in TBC. You died a lot leveling up, some heroic dungeons wasn't even doable by most pugs and the raids could take months (yes months) to clear.

Played all of it, never had any issues leveling and I rarely pugged anything (still don't). Never had much issues with the dungeons. When I said easy though, I was refering to the raids.