[spoilers] Chronicles Vol 2 and N'zoth's location

[Lastlivingsoul]

I agree, and Odyn's definitely earned Helya's personal enmity for his actions. But the Kvaldir, under her auspices and control, have been waylaying innocents since the introduction of the Vrykul in WotLK. They drove the Tuskarr from their homes and put many of them to the saber, massacring the entire settlement of Tualiq in the north. They also attacked the Horde landing off of the Mightstone quarry in the Borean Tundra completely unprovoked. They established themselves as hostile from the start - and the Tuskarr as well as the Horde and Alliance had no stake whatsoever in Helya's old grudge with Odyn (which would at least justify her actions against his chosen Vrykul and Valarjar).



I think Helya's beef with the Naga was more about attempting to establish control of the seas and not any form of altruism in combating Queen Azshara or her minions. The fact that they were briefly enemies of our enemies was a happy accident - and had Helya conquered Nazjatar she would've added their forces to her and been an even worse threat. Her story is a sad one, and she deserves some pity for her lot (which lies squarely on the shoulders of Odyn) - but in her rage she also declared herself an enemy of Azeroth's denizens, letting her anger and rage against Odyn spiral out of control.

Yep the Kavaldir waylay'd some helpless Tuskar. Definately hostile. Never said they were good guys. But Neither are the Horde or Alliance. If it gives us Exp we kill it and if they have a good pair of sneaks we'd steal those too. Good thing they like whale blubber ehh.

Back to Helya without her the Kaval'dir will fade. Whether or not she knew and hated Azshara personally this does work in Azshara's favor. The Seas are now hers no question. Score one for the Old God minions. "K'thth'al'a'la" - Translation: "BA-NA-NA!!"

She also hated Odyn so much that her paranoia made everyone a potential Odyn sympathizer, and well aren't we? Aren't we ready to hand over our immortal souls to a guy ready to snuff them out if we dissent and make us a puppet for eternity. Do we really deserve her trust for being SOOO gullible. I'm not saying I'd like to build a summer home in Helhiem, I just think Odyn literally (not figuratively) got away with murder and everyone around him pats him on the back.

DEFINITELY not my crowd or a safe camp to be in. Just because she might have been wrong about us doesn't mean she was wrong about him.

[Aucald]

Yep the Kavaldir waylay'd some helpless Tuskar. Definately hostile. Never said they were good guys. But Neither are the Horde or Alliance. If it gives us Exp we kill it and if they have a good pair of sneaks we'd steal those too. Good thing they like whale blubber ehh.

Back to Helya without her the Kaval'dir will fade. Whether or not she knew and hated Azshara personally this does work in Azshara's favor. The Seas are now hers no question. Score one for the Old God minions. "K'thth'al'a'la" - Translation: "BA-NA-NA!!"

She also hated Odyn so much that her paranoia made everyone a potential Odyn sympathizer, and well aren't we? Aren't we ready to hand over our immortal souls to a guy ready to snuff them out if we dissent and make us a puppet for eternity. Do we really deserve her trust for being SOOO gullible. I'm not saying I'd like to build a summer home in Helhiem, I just think Odyn literally (not figuratively) got away with murder and everyone around him pats him on the back.

DEFINITELY not my crowd or a safe camp to be in. Just because she might have been wrong about us doesn't mean she was wrong about him.

The Horde and Alliance are the protagonists, for better or worse - both the game and its story are centered on them and their exploits.

I think one thing that is forgotten in the rush of dislike for Odyn is that he didn't just snuff out Helya or the other Val'kyr without rhyme or reason - he did it as part of a well-meaning plan to protect Azeroth from the things forces in the universe that meant it harm. Odyn disagreed with the plan to appoint the Dragon Aspects as the monitors of Azeroth (a plan that inadvertently provided the Old Gods with their strongest servant in the form of Deathwing) and instead choose to create an army of immortal warriors to serve in the role as sentinels of Azeroth.

I don't think Odyn's thoughts on sacrificing Helya (his trusted adviser and adopted daughter, to boot) are known - though he feels little but enmity now I'm of a mind to think that her sacrifice wasn't as easy for him as people seem to think. Odyn is stubborn and proud, much like his mythological namesake, but I don't think he's a full-on sociopath or completely insane. He was wrong to do what he did to Helya, that much seems self-evident - but it is also a mistake that he and the Vrykul have been paying for quite a long time.

[Lastlivingsoul]

The Horde and Alliance are the protagonists, for better or worse - both the game and its story are centered on them and their exploits.

I think one thing that is forgotten in the rush of dislike for Odyn is that he didn't just snuff out Helya or the other Val'kyr without rhyme or reason - he did it as part of a well-meaning plan to protect Azeroth from the things forces in the universe that meant it harm.

I hear you. Your are saying he killed a trusted friend so he could make his town the best planet in the solar system. Maybe she had an annoying laugh, or her house didn't keep with Vrykul's Rustic aesthetic, or maybe she was just an appalling actor. It was all for the greater good.




Dude, to me Odyn is OJ Simpson. ... O-Dyn Simpson... The White Bronco above the throne... HOLY CRAP THE JUICE IS LOOSE!!

[Aucald]

I hear you. Your are saying he killed a trusted friend so he could make his town the best planet in the solar system. Maybe she had an annoying laugh, or her house didn't keep with Vrykul's Rustic aesthetic, or maybe she was just an appalling actor. It was all for the greater good.

Dude, to me Odyn is OJ Simpson. ... O-Dyn Simpson... The White Bronco above the throne... HOLY CRAP THE JUICE IS LOOSE!!

It was for what Odyn thought was the greater good - in this case, the protection and preservation of the world he had been charged by the Titans to keep and protect. "For the greater good" and all the irony that attaches to it is certainly applicable here, and it does make Odyn something of a rank hypocrite. It doesn't make him irredeemable, though; at least not insofar as I'm concerned. His goal is still the protection of Azeroth, and with the Legion at the proverbial doorstep that makes him a valuable ally.

[Lastlivingsoul]

It was for what Odyn thought was the greater good - in this case, the protection and preservation of the world he had been charged by the Titans to keep and protect. "For the greater good" and all the irony that attaches to it is certainly applicable here, and it does make Odyn something of a rank hypocrite. It doesn't make him irredeemable, though; at least not insofar as I'm concerned. His goal is still the protection of Azeroth, and with the Legion at the proverbial doorstep that makes him a valuable ally.

Sure in this game's story he is redeemable. I'm just not convinced as a person is all. He is a murderer and a murderer who will kill you -your character- dead if you so much as ask what Loken said. That just tells me he has murdered for selfish and petty reasons and will murder an ally again without fear of reprisal. It's pretty clear that Xal'BlahBlah no longer considers Odyn a threat either.

You can trust him and the game will envitably prove you were right to do so, I just hate that it does. It just seems like moral degeneration and blind faith. When Arthas did it to Sylvannas it was because he pissed him off but he still knew he was the a Harbringer of Damnation and evil. Odyn did the same thing but hides behind a shiny exterior of self righteousness and the fallacy "The greater good." Yet both commited the same act so at the end of the say all you are looking at is the outside.

Also you will see in further Legion questing in 7.2 reveals Odyn creates more problems with the Legion than he solves http://imgur.com/a/7KF9i

[Qualia]

Sure in this game's story he is redeemable. I'm just not convinced as a person is all. He is a murderer and a murderer who will kill you -your character- dead if you so much as ask what Loken said. That just tells me he has murdered for selfish and petty reasons and will murder an ally again without fear of reprisal. It's pretty clear that Xal'BlahBlah no longer considers Odyn a threat either.

Well, it didn't consider him a threat when he was still imprisoned. We don't know how much of a threat he is right now, but he was "a great enemy" to them before so it's very possible that he'd be a big help if he is free again. It's hard being a threat to anyone without the ability to exercise your (and your force) full power outside your base.

As of killing us for doing what Xal'atath suggested - it's true that it can be seen as a selfish action. Odyn is obviously no saint. However, I wouldn't say that it was "petty reason" - it's directly connected to one of the source of Odyn's 15+ thousand years of irritation and humiliation. Seeing that even the supposedly all loving goddess of peace Elune would slain us when we ask her about what Xal'atath said (assuming the Feat of Strength isn't going to change, which I doubt it is, given how close to 7.2 we are), I would say it isn't too much for Odyn to react as he did - unless we are putting our "goddess of peace" with an "unconditional love she gives to all creatures regardless of their beliefs or actions" as a murderer for selfish and petty reason too. Odyn isn't a good person, but not someone so evil that we can't work with (Helya, on the other hand...).

As of Helya - before we attacked her in 7.1.5, she started attacking our allies or normal civilians as well (her spell was going to destroy Highmountain, plus her Kvaldir murdered some non-combatant random Vrykul village). We probably don't really care about Helya and Odyn's beef, but planning to attack us isn't something we should ignore - especially with the Legion in our doorstep. Throws in the fact that Helya, based on the Illidari's and Xe'ra's speculation, apparently stroke a bargain with Gul'dan and stole Illidan's soul (which we need), I'd say it's very understandable that we assaulted Helheim. Additionally, while the Kvaldir were fighting the Naga, they had plans to assault Stormwind, Ogrimmar, and other points of importance in WoTLK too so it's not like they have been harmless towards us before. Seeing that the Helajar didn't just fade away when Helya died as Odyn took control over them after her defeat, I'd say the result turned out pretty well for us.

[steelballfc]

If they were smart, they'd play it off as us having stopped KJ at the Tomb using the pillars, going to Argus, and then come back and realize holy shit we unleashed N'zoth while we were gone and him and Azshara have wrecked everything.

i think that's the plan

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i just found it

[Evangeliste]

If think outside of all the crazy wish fulfilling theories that this is the most true. We may be simply looking for N'Zoth in the wrong expansion.

(Puts back on Tinfoil hat)

maybe ....

Oh most assuredly we are going to have another expansion to release N'Zoth because I personally believe that several things that Broken Isles was actually connected to the bottom of Northrend before the Great Sundering... And that Azshara is guarding N'Zoth as much as Qiraji did for C'Thun.
Therefore with this all in tow, Northrend will be revived to modern era which follows things that have been highlighted in Broken Shore in terms of storyline... As well as things like leylines, certain races and species, elven structure and architect. Then move onto Azshara hereself then possibly N'Zoth. We still don't know what the black forest is either unless it's like a suggestion of kelp.

[Telogrus]

That older structure was called C'Tanth.

Y'Shaarj and N'Zoth fought for control of C'Tanth, and Y'Shaarj won. However, this defeat ultimately worked out well for N'Zoth.

[Raetary]

That older structure was called C'Tanth.

Y'Shaarj and N'Zoth fought for control of C'Tanth, and Y'Shaarj won. However, this defeat ultimately worked out well for N'Zoth.

where did you get the name from?

[Aucald]

where did you get the name from?

It's mentioned at 17:29, although it doesn't get a lot of context explaining it.

[Telogrus]

where did you get the name from?

In 7.2, Xal'atath talks about the Battle for C'Tanth.

[Teri]

I still hope if we see wide-scale n'zoth influence it stays true to mostly eastern kingdoms (includes vashj'ir as we have seen giant tentacles being summoned there in a Cata questline).

They could even add a whole new underwater expansion zone beside it.

I got both chronicles, and I mean the big green area on Chronicle 1 Black Empire map, stretches out to where the Broken Isles are now as well.

I wouldn't mind a world quest/scaling etc eastern kingdoms, maybe with an improved undercity/silvermoon as well.

World quests split across 2 continents would just feel a bit odd imo.

Dun morogh being involved for Alliance could certainly be part of the story due to Magni.

[Jokubas]

It's mentioned at 17:29, although it doesn't get a lot of context explaining it.

Well, a battle like that might have led to the "festering wound in The Broken Isles", but that still leaves a lot of questions as to what it is and how that's relevant.

A quick theory: The Battle for C'Tanth left a hole in the Broken Isles, maybe physical, maybe metaphysical. When the titans would later imprison N'Zoth, the old god realized that the hole from the old battle could be used as an escape route from the prison. The hole starts festering due to N'Zoth trying to seep out of it, but by this point the night elves notice it and seal it with the Pillars of Creation. The power of that hole is hijacked by the Legion, who turn it into a portal to the Nether instead. However, if we shut down the portal, we might reopen the original "wound" and provide an exit for N'Zoth to escape the prison.

[Aucald]

Well, a battle like that might have led to the "festering wound in The Broken Isles", but that still leaves a lot of questions as to what it is and how that's relevant.

A quick theory: The Battle for C'Tanth left a hole in the Broken Isles, maybe physical, maybe metaphysical. When the titans would later imprison N'Zoth, the old god realized that the hole from the old battle could be used as an escape route from the prison. The hole starts festering due to N'Zoth trying to seep out of it, but by this point the night elves notice it and seal it with the Pillars of Creation. The power of that hole is hijacked by the Legion, who turn it into a portal to the Nether instead. However, if we shut down the portal, we might reopen the original "wound" and provide an exit for N'Zoth to escape the prison.

I'm of a mind that C'Tanth might be the battle between the Old God forces and the Titanforged that led to N'Zoth being sealed into his prison - a prison whose machinery may be partly present in the Tomb of Sargeras. The combination of the Legion's portal manipulations coupled with our use of the Pillars of Creation to close that portal may be just the disruptive spark N'Zoth needs to finish clawing his way from his prison in the crust of Azeroth.

[Deleted]

Looking at the level design for the tomb, there are a vast system of old god corrupted caves underneath

[omeomorfismo]

Sure in this game's story he is redeemable. I'm just not convinced as a person is all. He is a murderer and a murderer who will kill you -your character- dead if you so much as ask what Loken said. That just tells me he has murdered for selfish and petty reasons and will murder an ally again without fear of reprisal. It's pretty clear that Xal'BlahBlah no longer considers Odyn a threat either.

You can trust him and the game will envitably prove you were right to do so, I just hate that it does. It just seems like moral degeneration and blind faith. When Arthas did it to Sylvannas it was because he pissed him off but he still knew he was the a Harbringer of Damnation and evil. Odyn did the same thing but hides behind a shiny exterior of self righteousness and the fallacy "The greater good." Yet both commited the same act so at the end of the say all you are looking at is the outside.

Also you will see in further Legion questing in 7.2 reveals Odyn creates more problems with the Legion than he solves http://imgur.com/a/7KF9i

damn, this questline is cool. cant wait to do

[Dialout]

Yep the Kavaldir waylay'd some helpless Tuskar. Definately hostile. Never said they were good guys. But Neither are the Horde or Alliance. If it gives us Exp we kill it and if they have a good pair of sneaks we'd steal those too. Good thing they like whale blubber ehh.

Back to Helya without her the Kaval'dir will fade. Whether or not she knew and hated Azshara personally this does work in Azshara's favor. The Seas are now hers no question. Score one for the Old God minions. "K'thth'al'a'la" - Translation: "BA-NA-NA!!"

She also hated Odyn so much that her paranoia made everyone a potential Odyn sympathizer, and well aren't we? Aren't we ready to hand over our immortal souls to a guy ready to snuff them out if we dissent and make us a puppet for eternity. Do we really deserve her trust for being SOOO gullible. I'm not saying I'd like to build a summer home in Helhiem, I just think Odyn literally (not figuratively) got away with murder and everyone around him pats him on the back.

DEFINITELY not my crowd or a safe camp to be in. Just because she might have been wrong about us doesn't mean she was wrong about him.

I mean... we DID get a title whilst questing IN STORMHEIM called "The Gullible..." even though the quest itself had zero relevance to this thread.

I've always found that to be an entertaining *self* easter-egg in the sense that, well... Odyn used us, as we used him and he, Helya (and that band of Goblins, us). She may have been rage induced to the point where she/her forces were assaulting "us" (only because we happened to be where they were) but... we brought our forces to her and her realm via Odyn and also due to the fact that she was a *potential* obstacle for us retrieving one of the Pillars of Creation.

Odyn's character so far in Legion has always struck me as odd, and the conflict between him and Helya didn't really settle any ties for me. If anything, it left more questions than resolve.

I don't believe we deserved her trust, but I also think that due to whomever she was at work with (if anyone) and the fact that we basically played the pawns for a pawn (Odyn--and yes, I think he's been made a pawn for N'zoth, as someone mentioned earlier), I fear we'll end up regretting our hasty choice to eliminate her--whether it be from simply using the Pillars as "the key" that will free N'zoth (an indirect "retribution" for Helya's murder because we helped Odyn essentially give us one of the keys used to release him), or because she had some bargain with N'zoth himself and knew that if she was killed, she had a way back via his freedom, giving her direct retribution against us, Odyn or both (assuming Odyn doesn't bite the dust, but I can't see him doing so at this point, not with the way the *obvious* story is going. Blizzard seems to like throwing curve balls though, so who knows).

[Lastlivingsoul]

damn, this questline is cool. cant wait to do

Just completed the questline myself one. Each spec has a different questline it seems (At least for a mage) but this one in particular actually showed that not all Vrykul were blindly obedient to Odyn. I'm actually glad you can still get excited for the story. Tell me what you thought of Odyn good or bad once you complete the quest.

[Zandalariprelate]

Yeah, I think Xal'atath says something similar to this in the new 7.2 dialogue.



Might also be referring to a Black Empire structure rather than a Titan one.

Remember she say the broken shore was place where N'zoth and Y'shaarj fought a long and cruel war and even when the first one loss, he still gain something important