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  1. #41
    Deleted
    I am out. I might aswell try to explain string theory to kindergarden children. It's hopeless.

    Please @TJrogue and @HeiAggra don't ever quote me again in any thread. You two are wasting my valuable time. Thank you very much.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kfresh View Post
    This right here is the problem.
    The problem is ppl don't want to commit and learn. Raid takes some effort and ppl are not ready to step up and leave.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    I am out. I might aswell try to explain string theory to kindergarden children. It's hopeless.

    Please @TJrogue and @HeiAggra don't ever quote me again in any thread. You two are wasting my valuable time. Thank you very much.
    I guess we won the discussion then!

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    I am out. I might aswell try to explain string theory to kindergarden children. It's hopeless.

    Please @TJrogue and @HeiAggra don't ever quote me again in any thread. You two are wasting my valuable time. Thank you very much.
    Eeeeeh ok.... gratz on winning the discussion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    The problem is ppl don't want to commit and learn. Raid takes some effort and ppl are not ready to step up and leave.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I guess we won the discussion then!
    Highfive brother!

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by IceMan1763 View Post
    Since Blizzard releases only BS numbers like "total hours played", I could also be right. It's pretty clear that Blizzard has WOW on maintenance mode at this point.

    The collapse of long time guilds left and right isn't normal... this xpac is designed to burn the playerbase out faster than ever. Blizzard is learning the hard way that "total hours played" is only a good metric when those hours are fun and engaging, neither of which is true about what is required to keep a character raiding relevant.
    This post goes on my "Stupid Post Hall of Fame". Grats!!

    Blizzard has spent a hell of a lot more resources and development on Legion than they did in WoD, and it is obvious. So much for your "maintenance mode" Bbs.

  5. #45
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TJrogue View Post
    Eeeeeh ok.... gratz on winning the discussion.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Highfive brother!
    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    I guess we won the discussion then!

    I normally don't join in to Insult People but you two are total shithead idiots with shit opinions, elementary grade level intelligence. You even fool yourself to think you have won an "Internet discussion" while in reality you look even more stupid now.

    Good Lord how stupid can you two be?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    hahaha. man your logic is simply adorable.
    especially the part where you say "loot is RNG can drop or not".

    Loot does not have a 50% to drop and 50% to not drop.
    And the legendaries, titanforged and warforged are also RNG factors that have to be accounted for.

    No matter how you spin it. You lost this discussion.

    LEGION has the biggest levels of RNG of any WoW expansion. This is no opinion. This is no discussion. This is fact.
    so even if loot is not 50/50 its not RNG?
    Sounds like you dont know what RNG is... gg
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpDidNothingWrong View Post
    I normally don't join in to Insult People but you two are total shithead idiots with shit opinions, elementary grade level intelligence. You even fool yourself to think you have won an "Internet discussion" while in reality you look even more stupid now.

    Good Lord how stupid can you two be?
    What stupid opinion?
    Care to comment?

  8. #48
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpDidNothingWrong View Post
    I normally don't join in to Insult People but you two are total shithead idiots with shit opinions, elementary grade level intelligence. You even fool yourself to think you have won an "Internet discussion" while in reality you look even more stupid now.

    Good Lord how stupid can you two be?
    The fact that you think we think we "won the discussion ", shows how retarded your post is.

    I suggest next time you desperately want to reply in a fit of teenage emotional outburst, to look at the various exchange to understand what happened instead. It's for your own good. You avoid looking like a clown, like you just did now.

    Just because I'm in a good mood today, as soon as you're done going through the exchange, I will accept your apologies anytime.
    Last edited by mmocd8deb25f37; 2017-03-21 at 10:12 AM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer1989 View Post
    so even if loot is not 50/50 its not RNG?
    Sounds like you dont know what RNG is... gg
    50% is not RNG it seams!
    lol

  10. #50
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Gotta quote this one:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    Most of the guilds dying these days are guilds that shouldn't even exist.

    Talking about guilds founded in late WoD/HFC times or even just Legions EN.
    Not even talking about guilds here. Talking about a group of 20 randoms that came together at a time where the current
    top end content of the game was an utter joke.
    Those guilds came together because they stomped through easy/ridiculously nerfed content and they thought they were better
    than they actually are (no insult or anything). Like 'oh boi, we killed mythic Xavius, we're so ready for mythic raiding!'. Yea, no.
    Those guilds were in for a shock when ToV came out, NH even trumped that.

    It's all the 6-months-old 3/10 guilds falling apart. It's the 'I killed mythic Xavius so I'm a mythic raider' realizing that mythic
    raiding is more than just 20 wipes for a new boss, that raiding requires more than coming online only for raids and especially
    that they as a guild just aren't on the same page about what they want from the game.
    not because I agree with the conclusions, but because of something else...

    I'm observing two more or less long-time trends in the game.

    1. Everyone and their grandmother opening a guild. That's fine, get your own guild. Then put your banker toon in it, end of story.
    Otherwise there's absolutely no reason to create a guild, when there's already way too many out there.
    This might have in parts to do with decreasing player counts. But that isn't the only reason.
    Think for yourself.. Are you THAT special that you must open a guild? And if so, what makes you that special?
    What skills do you bring to the table? Running a guild requires a whole lot of unique skill sets. Everyone can spam the chat channels to offer 100g per signature to get the charta filled. But only very very few people are actually skilled enough to run a successful guild.
    And that success leads me to..
    2. NOPE.. The post I quoted is not because I agreed, it's just a good example why guilds fail, because of the false conclusion that a successful guild is all about downed raid content. That's not it, and never was.
    If you form a guild for that reason alone you will fail, your guild will face a sudden demise rather quick again.
    No, guild success comes from the ability to form a community. To create an environment where people actually look forward to meet every day.
    Yes they do content together too. They run dungeons, battlegrounds, arenas, and raids, any group content, and eventually they succeed there to various extent. It isn't important whether you killed 4, 5, or 7 bosses on mythic. It's the HOW you kill the targets.
    I've seen raid nights that were technically a progression success, and not a single raider enjoyed the night. Because there was no chemistry, there was a raid lead that was rather appalling, there was nothing to identify with. No team spirit was felt.
    And I've seen other nights where actually no progress was made, and yet everyone had a field day. Lots of fun, lots of laughter and friends were made that night, or already existing bonds deepened.
    And that's how guilds should be ran. On the principle of a strong community. Those guilds survive for years, some are around since vanilla..
    Last edited by Wildtree; 2017-03-21 at 10:14 AM.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    [...]1) Heroic Gul'Dan is actually quite hard for casual guilds. Many have given up on it.[...]
    Thing is casual guilds, mine included, often raid with small friends&family groups. And Gul'dan - he just doesn't scale. Most of the Nighthold doesn't scale. Group size may be flexible, but encountes ar not. Number of many mechanics to deal with is fixed - we got the same amount of stuff with 30-man and with 10-man - while fixed numer of cookies on Trillax and burning pitches on Krosus aren't a big deal, empowered bonds on Gul'dan turn him into quite a challenge for small groups.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by TJrogue View Post
    The fact that you think we think we "won the discussion ", shows how retarded your post is.

    I suggest next time you desperately want to reply in a fit of teenage emotional outburst, to look at the various exchange to understand what happened instead.

    Just because I'm in a good mood today, as soon as yoilu're done going through the exchange, I will accept your apologies anytime.
    Nah don't bother!
    I like the post he linked, even with all the thing we posted it had to be that ONE!
    Not the ones we were just pointing out the obvious!

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    It is currently very common. The main issues so many guilds are collapsing including more casuals and even better guilds :

    1) Heroic Gul'Dan is actually quite hard for casual guilds. Many have given up on it.
    2) The jump from 3/10 mythic to 4/10 mythic is huge. You actually need 20 good people, with gear, who know what they do and a bit of luck
    3) People are burnt out. LEGION has been a long repetitive RNG grindfest.
    4) People are fed up and quit. Mostly because of RNG. It simply isn't fun to see other people getting better gear although they are worse.
    5) Content. Looks good on the surface, but is actually badly designed.
    6) PvP is a complete failure. Some people like to do some PvP from time to time, atleast it was that way in older expansions. Doesn't happen with LEGION anymore, because PvP has been the worst it has even been, besides the changes who look good on paper, but in reality are the worst thing that ever happened to WoW PvP.
    7) Class design is on an all time low. Some speccs have been pruned and simplified so much they are beyond help. Rotations and speccs just don't feel right. Reality and intuition are disconnect. (I haven't played ALL speccs so I can't speak for everyone)

    And many more reasons, but to write everything down and go into the specifics would be too time consuming, but to sum it up : the problems are mostly due to design choices from Blizzard
    I'll agree with you on everything.

    I havent played in 1-2 months now if not more. Reason I quit was: My spec got changed to death (destruction warlock) awful rotation. AP grind just was too much for me, while I can perform in a mythic environment to get more competitive I needed to farm all day long. It didn't feel very rewarding raiding, e.g doing normal or hc nighthold when it first came out seemed like it rewards the same thing.

  14. #54
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    Nah don't bother!
    I like the post he linked, even with all the thing we posted it had to be that ONE!
    Not the ones we were just pointing out the obvious!
    Yourr right. Plus we won the discussion, we're winners we don't have to answer to noone!!

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by TJrogue View Post
    Yourr right. Plus we won the discussion, we're winners we don't have to answer to noone!!
    LOL the we won the discussion was just a ironic moment

  16. #56
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by tratra View Post
    I'll agree with you on everything.

    I havent played in 1-2 months now if not more. Reason I quit was: My spec got changed to death (destruction warlock) awful rotation. AP grind just was too much for me, while I can perform in a mythic environment to get more competitive I needed to farm all day long. It didn't feel very rewarding raiding, e.g doing normal or hc nighthold when it first came out seemed like it rewards the same thing.
    Thank you very much. Great to see finally another smart person join in

  17. #57
    Herald of the Titans Murderdoll's Avatar
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    A lot of guilds that have started in Legion are folding. A lot of guilds who didnt have numbers for Mythic heading into EN are folding.

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by saradonin View Post
    Thing is casual guilds, mine included, often raid with small friends&family groups. And Gul'dan - he just doesn't scale. Most of the Nighthold doesn't scale. Group size may be flexible, but encountes ar not. Number of many mechanics to deal with is fixed - we got the same amount of stuff with 30-man and with 10-man - while fixed numer of cookies on Trillax and burning pitches on Krosus aren't a big deal, empowered bonds on Gul'dan turn him into quite a challenge for small groups.
    yes that is actually a problem. Some bosses are really hard with 10 people. I guess it was the same problem with Odyn back when he came out.
    Blizzard doesn't factor in that when you have 10 people, Out of those 10 people you have 2 tanks and atleast 2 healers. That means 40% of your raid is already tanks and healers.
    If you run 30 people, you still have 2 tanks and that means that is bigger % of your raid can be dps.

    On the other hand some bosses are harder with 30 people, especially those where you need to spread out. Optimal setup is always around 20 people I found. Had the most success with it in heroic (not that it really matters anymore)

  19. #59
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TJrogue View Post
    The fact that you think we think we "won the discussion ", shows how retarded your post is.

    I suggest next time you desperately want to reply in a fit of teenage emotional outburst, to look at the various exchange to understand what happened instead. It's for your own good. You avoid looking like a clown, like you just did now.

    Just because I'm in a good mood today, as soon as you're done going through the exchange, I will accept your apologies anytime.
    good Lord ... "won this discussion". listen to yourself. How old are you? 12?

    You think scream "hurr durr we won this discussion" like a Retard means anything?

    You two are honestly stupid and conflux did the smartest Thing he/she could have done and that is leaving you two idiots to be with your stupidity.

    You two are a disgrace to all smart People in this world. You are a disgrace to the human species.

  20. #60
    It is but on the bright side it's starting to separate the wheat from the chaff.

    I play on Sargeras which is huge on Raiding and so many guilds have disbanded to form newer guilds taking their best and trying to reform into a more serious guild to clear Mythic. It has been nice seeing more GMs crack down on subpar raiders and Nighthold is a great raid for showcasing the difference between gear checks and mechanical competence checks.

    It may seem pretty shitty from the average POV but honestly I don't mind the direction WoW is taking atm. It's rewarding to be a good raider and much more punishing to be a bad one. Seems pretty simple. People wanted Mythic to be harder when EN seemed to easy and now that it is people are starting to second guess that thought. That coupled with the near mandatory "out of raid" content makes the game much more enjoyable for someone like me that invests a lot of time trying to improve myself and my character. For me this is great.

    Burnout is natural. It always happens. It's for the best that we at least take what we're given and make something better out of it.

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