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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by RohanV View Post
    Your design is fundamentally different than the current Cleric stance. You're encouraging weaving on a per-GCD basis. One GCD on damage, the next on heals. Cleric stance is more about weaving on a 15-second-block basis. What skill there is involves knowing/predicting that it will be okay to deal damage for the next 15 seconds or so.

    Also, one thing about weaving on a shorter basis. It is painful without either mouseover casting or defensive + offensive targets (like Warhammer Online had). I don't think it should be encouraged without support in the default UI.
    I actually hadn't intended it to weave dps -> heal -> dps, etc. I think I covered that way back when, but its possible I didn't or it got lost in the discussion. The intent was to cast say 2-3 heals (or more), then DPS as needed and vice versa. Your first DPS spell would be buffed considerably (2x-3x based on stacks), the remainders would be reduced to standard damage. Casting this DPS spell would then start stacking a healing buff. This would make your next heal cast more powerful allowing you to skirt the edge of danger to eek out more DPS if you wanted or play it safe. Lastly it added the gameplay element of choice in that you got to pick which spell you wanted to empower. I like that added choice since its organic and flows naturally and is impactful.

    Whether or not this idea is any good is certainly up to discussion though, but I hope that better clarifies the intent of the mechanic.

    Quote Originally Posted by RohanV View Post
    You could if you wanted to. BLM does this. The more stacks you have, the longer it takes to transition from one extreme to the other without Transpose. I personally think a relatively short transition, 2 GCDs, is good for healers, so that's only 3 states (Healing, Baseline, Damage).
    Fair enough. I personally think that in your iteration it be much better suited to short stacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by RohanV View Post
    It may be a little boring, but it's quite powerful, especially if it is off-GCD. Do you have a THM/BLM? If you don't, just play the first 10 or so levels of one. The mechanic is pretty clear.
    This is another hallmark of my entire discussion. Pushing B4B is powerful, but it isn't fun. Pushing your idea of transpose may be powerful (same with BLM) but it just doesn't feel fun to me. I think all cooldowns should be fun buttons to hit.
    Last edited by Wrecktangle; 2017-03-21 at 04:41 PM.

  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Ranting
    At this point I am honestly at a loss with you. You are arguing in depth healer mechanics, when you don't heal. And you argue about FUN buttons when fun is a completely subjective measurement. The game is meant to be fun. Buttons are just buttons. If you don't like the game, there are many others available to you. If you do like the game, and want to discuss it, perhaps you would be better off to find a better argument than "fun buttons". My wife has a fun button, doesn't mean all the other ones are irrelevant. It is the whole experience that counts.

  3. #563
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    At this point I am honestly at a loss with you. You are arguing in depth healer mechanics, when you don't heal. And you argue about FUN buttons when fun is a completely subjective measurement. The game is meant to be fun. Buttons are just buttons. If you don't like the game, there are many others available to you. If you do like the game, and want to discuss it, perhaps you would be better off to find a better argument than "fun buttons". My wife has a fun button, doesn't mean all the other ones are irrelevant. It is the whole experience that counts.
    If you don't have an argument, or worse, can't see the discussion for what it is, why are you even posting? It's clear now that there's a disconnect here. So, rather than try to shut down, what have you done to see the points of view offered here? Because right now, it doesn't seem like you're helping to add to the discussion.

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    At this point I am honestly at a loss with you. You are arguing in depth healer mechanics, when you don't heal. And you argue about FUN buttons when fun is a completely subjective measurement. The game is meant to be fun. Buttons are just buttons. If you don't like the game, there are many others available to you. If you do like the game, and want to discuss it, perhaps you would be better off to find a better argument than "fun buttons". My wife has a fun button, doesn't mean all the other ones are irrelevant. It is the whole experience that counts.
    Advent kind of covered it below, but it bears repeating. You're not really saying anything here or refuting any of my statements.

    In the context of combat there exist buttons that serve little purpose and are not fun to press. Those are the examples I've given and I've discussed possible changes. You're welcome to refute any of the specific examples with your personal insight and intellect.

    Since fun is subjective (and it is) why don't you make a compelling argument for why I'm wrong. Tell me in your own words why you get a rise out of pushing the CS button, or the IR button, or the B4B button. Tell me the exact sensation and enjoyment you procure from pushing a button with very little feedback or gameplay changing qualities.

    Re: your wife and her fun button. You'd do well to learn that all her buttons are fun or you might find her with someone who does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    If you don't have an argument, or worse, can't see the discussion for what it is, why are you even posting? It's clear now that there's a disconnect here. So, rather than try to shut down, what have you done to see the points of view offered here? Because right now, it doesn't seem like you're helping to add to the discussion.
    You know what they say right?

    Gators. Gonna. Gate.

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Re: your wife and her fun button. You'd do well to learn that all her buttons are fun or you might find her with someone who does.
    Was that really fucking necessary? It's obvious you and the person you quoted don't see eye to eye. Just put each other on ignore and move on.

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    Was that really fucking necessary? It's obvious you and the person you quoted don't see eye to eye. Just put each other on ignore and move on.
    At this point i think wrecktangle is just a much more subtle jaylock putting out successful b8.

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    Was that really fucking necessary? It's obvious you and the person you quoted don't see eye to eye. Just put each other on ignore and move on.
    Not sure why you're so upset. It's actually conventional wisdom I thought at this point.

    I don't subscribe to ignoring people I disagree with. Its extremely possible that he could prove me wrong or enlighten me on some key aspect I wasn't aware of (numerous posters here have done it successfully). It's equally possible that he may come to better understand my point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    At this point i think wrecktangle is just a much more subtle jaylock putting out successful b8.
    No bait here. Merely discussion. You're more than welcome to contribute rather than slander me though.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Not sure why you're so upset. It's actually conventional wisdom I thought at this point.

    I don't subscribe to ignoring people I disagree with. Its extremely possible that he could prove me wrong or enlighten me on some key aspect I wasn't aware of (numerous posters here have done it successfully). It's equally possible that he may come to better understand my point of view.
    I'm not keen to ignore people, either. Generally I put people on ignore here for a day or two if they are being particularly nasty/annoying/stupid/trolling/whatever, then remove it, because I generally forget about whatever they said/did. I simply don't think it's necessary to drag people family and such into the mix to make a point/insult, even with strangers over the internet (even provided said person in this case basically cracked the door open)...and yes, I'm well aware of the amount of "your mom" jokes floating around the 'net.

    I realize I'm backseat moderating here, so I'll eat the infraction points.

  9. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post

    Re: your wife and her fun button. You'd do well to learn that all her buttons are fun or you might find her with someone who does.
    That's the stupidest, neckbeardiest thing I've read in this thread
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  10. #570
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Advent kind of covered it below, but it bears repeating. You're not really saying anything here or refuting any of my statements.

    In the context of combat there exist buttons that serve little purpose and are not fun to press. Those are the examples I've given and I've discussed possible changes. You're welcome to refute any of the specific examples with your personal insight and intellect.

    Since fun is subjective (and it is) why don't you make a compelling argument for why I'm wrong. Tell me in your own words why you get a rise out of pushing the CS button, or the IR button, or the B4B button. Tell me the exact sensation and enjoyment you procure from pushing a button with very little feedback or gameplay changing qualities.

    Re: your wife and her fun button. You'd do well to learn that all her buttons are fun or you might find her with someone who does.



    You know what they say right?

    Gators. Gonna. Gate.
    I mean... regarding advents opinion. Not to be mean but I would do nothing but disregard the opinion of a player who said he intentionally did not press buttons in the DRG rotation because he found it too hard or that they ruined the flow when in reality if you do the rotation right it flows so perfectly that you reaply full thrust and phlebotomize when they have 1 sec of duration left right after your last combo action.
    That being said a player of that magnitude offering opinions on why CS is clunky? Naw thanks

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    I'm not keen to ignore people, either. Generally I put people on ignore here for a day or two if they are being particularly nasty/annoying/stupid/trolling/whatever, then remove it, because I generally forget about whatever they said/did. I simply don't think it's necessary to drag people family and such into the mix to make a point/insult, even with strangers over the internet (even provided said person in this case basically cracked the door open)...and yes, I'm well aware of the amount of "your mom" jokes floating around the 'net.

    I realize I'm backseat moderating here, so I'll eat the infraction points.
    It wasn't intended as an insult (did it come off that way?) It was intended as advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by sahlamuhla View Post
    I mean... regarding advents opinion. Not to be mean but I would do nothing but disregard the opinion of a player who said he intentionally did not press buttons in the DRG rotation because he found it too hard or that they ruined the flow when in reality if you do the rotation right it flows so perfectly that you reaply full thrust and phlebotomize when they have 1 sec of duration left right after your last combo action.
    That being said a player of that magnitude offering opinions on why CS is clunky? Naw thanks
    So you're basically saying that because you're a better player than him that his insight isn't worthwhile. You're more than welcome to actually refute his points instead of bashing his character if you actually wanted to contribute to the discussion.

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    It wasn't intended as an insult (did it come off that way?) It was intended as advice.
    Not so much insulting as it is snide, I'd say, but I've said my bit on that; simply didn't think it was necessary to go there, even if the other person did open the door, so to speak.

    On the Stormblood news front:

    Dualshockers interview with Yoshida

    So they will look to improve magic defense for PLD...which is great, sure, but I'm eager to see/hear more on PLD improvement front. I won't be that person that goes "omg is that all they are doing to PLD wtf?", as some people on Reddit have already done.

    As someone who didn't play the Tactics games, it looks like I have some playing (or reading, at least, for the lore) to do, given the "tie-in" with Ivalice.

  13. #573
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    It wasn't intended as an insult (did it come off that way?) It was intended as advice.



    So you're basically saying that because you're a better player than him that his insight isn't worthwhile. You're more than welcome to actually refute his points instead of bashing his character if you actually wanted to contribute to the discussion.
    No I m not saying because I m a better player that his insight isn't worthwhile. I m saying the way he is playing is causing him to call a perfectly fine and fluid rotation "clunky" when its one of the best flowing rotations in the game. Therefore his vision regarding cleric stance could be just as clouded. I agree that the button bloat is real right now but not in the core DRG rotation but rather some of the off skills and off gcds.

  14. #574
    USGamer interview with Yoshida (never heard of this until now; suppose this is one good way to market).

    I'm not as concerned about his comments concerning Diadem 2.0, seeing that it came out at the very end of an xpac with the most relevant/difficult raid having been on farm stats for better part of 5 months.

    As for the remark about relic weapons AND armor...I'm not sure whether to be excited at such an idea or dreading the ungodly grind such a thing would likely require.

    An all-original job within the FF14 universe/setting could be fun to see instead of being tethered to some expectations of a job based on previous incarnations of said job (in other FF series games).

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    So they will look to improve magic defense for PLD...which is great, sure, but I'm eager to see/hear more on PLD improvement front. I won't be that person that goes "omg is that all they are doing to PLD wtf?", as some people on Reddit have already done.

    As someone who didn't play the Tactics games, it looks like I have some playing (or reading, at least, for the lore) to do, given the "tie-in" with Ivalice.
    PLD def needs more love than just that.

    BUT TACTICS oh shit yes. He mentioned it. My dream and hope is to see primal battles of the Lucavi demons. I would resub just to downright murder Velius over and over and over and over. My 11 year old self lost an entire save to that monster, and lots and lots of hours trying to beat him.

    I was surprised he mentioned Time Mage honestly. I mean Astrologian is very close to that already in design and thematics.

    Also um... what are you doing? Seriously. Go on PSN buy tactics for $4.99. Or emulate it. It's 100% worth it. It is quite possibly one of the best games of that time just in raw story/scope alone. That's not counting the amazing music (top 5 best scores ever IMO) or the insanely compelling gameplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by sahlamuhla View Post
    No I m not saying because I m a better player that his insight isn't worthwhile. I m saying the way he is playing is causing him to call a perfectly fine and fluid rotation "clunky" when its one of the best flowing rotations in the game. Therefore his vision regarding cleric stance could be just as clouded. I agree that the button bloat is real right now but not in the core DRG rotation but rather some of the off skills and off gcds.
    Meh I think there are some areas of improvement in the DRG rotation. I don't think its really necessary to have 2 DoTs and 2 maintenance buffs in conjunction with a ton of oGCD's as you mentioned.

    I did re-read your post a few times. I just don't see what I am missing. It definitely sounds like you're saying that because he is bad at one job specifically that his insight on any other job is invalid. Maybe someone else can help explain it to me better. As I said before, you're welcome to refute any of his points (or mine).
    Last edited by Wrecktangle; 2017-03-23 at 07:52 PM.

  16. #576
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    PLD def needs more love than just that.

    BUT TACTICS oh shit yes. He mentioned it. My dream and hope is to see primal battles of the Lucavi demons. I would resub just to downright murder Velius over and over and over and over. My 11 year old self lost an entire save to that monster, and lots and lots of hours trying to beat him.

    I was surprised he mentioned Time Mage honestly. I mean Astrologian is very close to that already in design and thematics.

    Also um... what are you doing? Seriously. Go on PSN buy tactics for $4.99. Or emulate it. It's 100% worth it. It is quite possibly one of the best games of that time just in raw story/scope alone. That's not counting the amazing music (top 5 best scores ever IMO) or the insanely compelling gameplay.



    Meh I think there are some areas of improvement in the DRG rotation. I don't think its really necessary to have 2 DoTs and 2 maintenance buffs in conjunction with a ton of oGCD's as you mentioned.

    I did re-read your post a few times. I just don't see what I am missing. It definitely sounds like you're saying that because he is bad at one job specifically that his insight on any other job is invalid. Maybe someone else can help explain it to me better. As I said before, you're welcome to refute any of his points (or mine).
    I dont mind him being bad at the job. I mind it though when his lack of skill makes him assume the job is clunky when it isnt.

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    PLD def needs more love than just that.

    BUT TACTICS oh shit yes. He mentioned it. My dream and hope is to see primal battles of the Lucavi demons. I would resub just to downright murder Velius over and over and over and over. My 11 year old self lost an entire save to that monster, and lots and lots of hours trying to beat him.

    I was surprised he mentioned Time Mage honestly. I mean Astrologian is very close to that already in design and thematics.

    Also um... what are you doing? Seriously. Go on PSN buy tactics for $4.99. Or emulate it. It's 100% worth it. It is quite possibly one of the best games of that time just in raw story/scope alone. That's not counting the amazing music (top 5 best scores ever IMO) or the insanely compelling gameplay.
    In that last link I posted, the interviewer specifically called out Flash and it's lack of damage, to which Yoshida's reply looks to indicate he can see how and why people are disappointed with it. Of course, he doesn't give any specifics away as to if they are going to do something about it. As someone who has played all the tanks during HW, simply having spammable AoE damage alone would make the job infinitely more fun.

    Edit: I'm surprised they don't have FFT as part of what's available on Steam. Just about every FF series game there is on there except that. Blah...I've no problem grabbing an emulator, but I'll stop there since discussion of such is generally frowned upon here (or so I've gathered from other subforums).
    Last edited by Kazgrel; 2017-03-23 at 08:19 PM.

  18. #578
    Tactics Ogre Let us Cling Together (the remake and original) is the better tactics game.

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by Aruhen View Post
    Tactics Ogre Let us Cling Together (the remake and original) is the better tactics game.
    I didn't play Tactics Ogre Let us Cling Together...but just looked it up...is the eyeroll because it's basically the same game because I did a double take on the website when I saw gameplay footage/ screenshot....I though I looked up a FFT page by mistake.

  20. #580
    Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy Tactics are amongst my favourite games even to this very day. I adore Ivalice as a setting so I appreciate the references and homages to it that exist in FFXIV. So this 'Return to Ivalice' raid certainly piques my interest. I do hope the plot boasts the classic intrigue and heartbreak that the Ivalice games are know for, though.

    The good, Ivalice games that is.

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