Blizzard have effectively gotten rid of flying

[Wingspan]

I miss flying. I just like flying. I know some people don't. I do.

Should've been like it was with Panda, fly once you reach max level. Or complete all zones (which is easily done, you'll see the quests), but waiting for months, when I'm already bored? meh

I get where you are coming from.

I liked WoW for a long time and maybe played it a bit too obsessively - and exclusively... and now I don't even bother buying or playing it until flight goes live. I am not a real fan of Pathfinder but I do accept it as a reasonable compromise (since it requires mostly what I would have done anyway) but I will pretty much never step a virtual foot in an expansion until flight is there to be had.

When 7.2 hits with flight, I'll resub. Until then, my vacation from WoW has had the pleasant side-effect allowing me to discover a few other games, so its all good for me.

[-Joker-]

Very relevant. Blizzard doesn't do real mountains though.

Nothing in the game is real. Pixelated world and all that

[Elim Garak]

Nothing in the game is real. Pixelated world and all that

Why are you badly parroting me?

[rda]

It is bigger without flying. Being able to lift vertical and reach anywhere in a straight line kind of makes everything smaller.

You are talking about being able to traverse the world faster or slower.

It is exactly the point that the world is the same size and they disallow flying partly in order to get away with it being smaller than before.

I know you don't care about how much effort the devs put into the game. Perhaps you'd be fine with one zone repeated in different colors six times instead of six different zones. But other people kind of care, because the level of effort has a direct say in how interesting and varied the game is.

[Deleted]

You are talking about being able to traverse the world faster or slower.

It is the exact point that the world is the same size and they disallow flying partly in order to get away with it being smaller than before.

I don't care if the world is smaller in size. I care that is well done and full of stuff. I care about the different subzones connecting flawlessly and I care about how engaging it is. I'd take any legion zone over icecrown any day.

[Vaelorian]

(got many replies so I won't reply to all of them)
Some people react to my response to another guy about how smooth the outdoor content was. This guy was describing what I described. So if you want to "attack" someone about that feel free and go back to read who that person was. But now that we have a discussion going on:
1. people said: well its not just the ability to transport yourself it has also got to do with all those small branches that makes travel a hassle
Really? You cannot jump? And you cannot run around a branche? Is that "unbearable"? Does it annoy at times? Hell yeah, I too find it annoying at times. But you know what... I also got stuck in treebranches at times with my flying mount. If you know where to traverse and where not too, you have no issues. This is small potatoes guys. It should not be in range of the word: "unbearable". And yes sometimes you get stuck with your mount on NOTHING. This is the same bug that makes warriors and mages go crazy. But it has almost 0 to do with wanting to fly really. It is grasping for straws. Come with some real drawbacks vs the current system.
2. The argument: There is no danger in the world anyway so flight should be there.
Yeah well I agree with that logic actually. The thing is... I would rather have a dangerous world then being able to fly. So why not petition Blizzard to make the world dangerous? You get a more engaging game. It is win win. And ofcourse as time passes, flight will be enabled just like it is now.

[Deleted]

(got many replies so I won't reply to all of them)
Some people react to my response to another guy about how smooth the outdoor content was. This guy was describing what I described. So if you want to "attack" someone about that feel free and go back to read who that person was. But now that we have a discussion going on:
1. people said: well its not just the ability to transport yourself it has also got to do with all those small branches that makes travel a hassle
Really? You cannot jump? And you cannot run around a branche? Is that "unbearable"? Does it annoy at times? Hell yeah, I too find it annoying at times. But you know what... I also got stuck in treebranches at times with my flying mount. If you know where to traverse and where not too, you have no issues. This is small potatoes guys. It should not be in range of the word: "unbearable". And yes sometimes you get stuck with your mount on NOTHING. This is the same bug that makes warriors and mages go crazy. But it has almost 0 to do with wanting to fly really. It is grasping for straws. Come with some real drawbacks vs the current system.
2. The argument: There is no danger in the world anyway so flight should be there.
Yeah well I agree with that logic actually. The thing is... I would rather have a dangerous world then being able to fly. So why not petition Blizzard to make the world dangerous? You get a more engaging game. It is win win. And ofcourse as time passes, flight will be enabled just like it is now.

I had someone trying to convince me that mobs interrupting getting a quest from a questgiver was actually a major issue so yeah... have to agree with you.

[Vaelorian]

I had someone trying to convince me that mobs interrupting getting a quest from a questgiver was actually a major issue so yeah... have to agree with you.

yeah exactly... "I am getting interrupted while farming some node..." really? That is your reason for flying mounts?
I understand people have their own limitations towards what they consider not fun. But WoW is one of the most smooth games out there. And sure there are still issues with the game. But for the life of me I just can't get my head around the reasons some people give. If I were like the people who responded with similar reasons, I'd just find another game.

[WowIsDead64]

(got many replies so I won't reply to all of them)
Some people react to my response to another guy about how smooth the outdoor content was. This guy was describing what I described. So if you want to "attack" someone about that feel free and go back to read who that person was. But now that we have a discussion going on:
1. people said: well its not just the ability to transport yourself it has also got to do with all those small branches that makes travel a hassle
Really? You cannot jump? And you cannot run around a branche? Is that "unbearable"? Does it annoy at times? Hell yeah, I too find it annoying at times. But you know what... I also got stuck in treebranches at times with my flying mount. If you know where to traverse and where not too, you have no issues. This is small potatoes guys. It should not be in range of the word: "unbearable". And yes sometimes you get stuck with your mount on NOTHING. This is the same bug that makes warriors and mages go crazy. But it has almost 0 to do with wanting to fly really. It is grasping for straws. Come with some real drawbacks vs the current system.
2. The argument: There is no danger in the world anyway so flight should be there.
Yeah well I agree with that logic actually. The thing is... I would rather have a dangerous world then being able to fly. So why not petition Blizzard to make the world dangerous? You get a more engaging game. It is win win. And ofcourse as time passes, flight will be enabled just like it is now.

You oversimplify things and therefore your arguments start to sound more and more like standard anti-flyer strawman arguments. "You don't want to jump over branches"? "You want to skip content"? "You don't want world to feel dangerous"? "You want game to be easy"? Situation isn't that simple. One "branch" - isn't content itself. 6 locations, you have to complete today and every freakin day within half a year, that include hundreds of "branches", hills, mobs, items, other players and many other obstacles - are content. May be your vision is way too narrow - you don't see whole picture. Or may be it's some sort of RP - you have some illusion of perfect ground content in your brain and flying isn't actually problem - it just brakes this illusion. But then you should understand, that there is no difference between flying RP and no flying RP.

May be in some perfect conditions your vision would be right. For example no other players to compete with, all mobs are alive and respawn rate is low - so you just can kill them one by one in exact the same order, you always kill them, have free space and enough time for using CC, picking right mobs, waiting for your CDs. No reasons to hurry or rush. But in situation, when 1 second - is difference between 5% progress and 0% progress - this "branch" becomes really big problem. Yeah, may be in the past, back in Vanilla, TBC or WotLK, ground content was immersive, cuz it had more "calm" design. But design of ground content has CHANGED since then. Blizzard themselves make it about COMPETITION and GRIND. Content is being RUSHED now. Content is intentionally being made as PACKED, as possible. Hell, I have to kill exactly the same mobs 4, 5 or even more times to complete Zeth'Gol, because it's so small and packed. GRIND/COMPETITION and IMMERSION - are two MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE things. If Blizzard want to increase immersion - they have to decrease grind/competition.

[Maudib]

The Lich king, which had what 9 zones? 2 or 3 of which designed with flying, the remaining ones designed to be experienced from the ground. So yeah... are you saying that storm Peaks and Icecrown represent ALL good there was in wotlk?

And... are you saying that wow, with a gem of unique beauty like Suramar, has ran out of creativity? Why, cause you can't farm nodes faster? How does that make any sense.

9 HUGE zones. Even with flying... Flying from Dal to say Borean Tundra took quite a while... once you leveled through the zones, flying didn't make the zones irrelevant, they still were large, and offered a lot of gathering and farming, dailies, etc. None of which were "trivialized" by flying.

Again, what I said was, WotLK was the best story of this game.. period. And flying did not diminish it one bit.

What I find so funny... is that Looking for Dungeon has, by FAR, trivialized content more than anything else in game. Completely bypassing the world via insta-porting into groups in dungeons... and many people will chain run these dungeons never seeing anything but the main city they camp in waiting for the next queue to pop.

Yet suggest they put flying back in and take out the insta-ports? OMG! The world would end.

[Myah]

You won't be bored after flying? What you're gonna fly in circles above Dalaran and feel happy?

.

No, because I can go from one place straight to another, without having to run to a flight point of wait til the whistle is ready to use.

[Teri]

Be happy you only have to unlock flying once, confirmed on PTR when they still had the NPC to unlock it, I later copied some more characters and they can still fly.

[xanzul]

No, because I can go from one place straight to another, without having to run to a flight point of wait til the whistle is ready to use.

Ever think to consider that is the whole god damn issue with flight? Avoiding open world content for the sake of speed? Come on its been 4 years at this point. It's time to stop playing dumb.

[Deleted]

(got many replies so I won't reply to all of them)
Some people react to my response to another guy about how smooth the outdoor content was. This guy was describing what I described. So if you want to "attack" someone about that feel free and go back to read who that person was. But now that we have a discussion going on:
1. people said: well its not just the ability to transport yourself it has also got to do with all those small branches that makes travel a hassle
Really? You cannot jump? And you cannot run around a branche? Is that "unbearable"? Does it annoy at times? Hell yeah, I too find it annoying at times. But you know what... I also got stuck in treebranches at times with my flying mount. If you know where to traverse and where not too, you have no issues. This is small potatoes guys. It should not be in range of the word: "unbearable". And yes sometimes you get stuck with your mount on NOTHING. This is the same bug that makes warriors and mages go crazy. But it has almost 0 to do with wanting to fly really. It is grasping for straws. Come with some real drawbacks vs the current system.
2. The argument: There is no danger in the world anyway so flight should be there.
Yeah well I agree with that logic actually. The thing is... I would rather have a dangerous world then being able to fly. So why not petition Blizzard to make the world dangerous? You get a more engaging game. It is win win. And ofcourse as time passes, flight will be enabled just like it is now.

1. The problem is that in the real world you or your mount just step over a minor obstacle. In WoW you get stuck instead of moving over the minor obstacle. Ths is very unnerving. They ignore so many features they could simulate (like fatigue from running which they simulate in Diablo), but somehow such annoying minor obstacles HAVE TO BE THERE. Why? Same thing with items which hang from above and obscure your vision, so you constantly have to fiddle with the camera angle. It's annoying as Hell and has no use whatsoever.
2. Why do people want to have a dangerous world when they have dungeons and raids who cater to exactly this type of play (also areas where flying was never an issue)? The thing is, while dungeons and raids have some kind of a minimum character and item level requirements, which are either set by the game or by the group which runs the dungeon / raid, you have nothing like this in the open world. So you will have a great variety of players there, from the newbs without any understanding of their characters and / or people with awful gear to PvP and raid paragons who find everything below them which is not the pinnacle of their skill. You cannot make the world dangerous for the latter group without completely discouraging the other players, which essentially kills the MMO aspect of the game, reducing the player base to hardcore players only.

BTW, flying does not make your quests easier. Gear does. And in Legion, we are showered with epics and titanforged items, so open world content becomes even easier. They compensate with more travel time to keep us occupied.

Edit: I don't know why they did not keep the modus operandi from MoP. The main area was open to flight with hitting max level and purchasing the skill. The added isles with harder content have been without flight and also had more dangerous mobs. This had worked out well and also gave a sense of open world progression. They could have kept Suramar City without flight forever as long as this shield thingy is still there, while let us fly everywhere else. Grapple hooks and gliders / toys are only fun for the first couple of times.

[Deleted]

No, because I can go from one place straight to another, without having to run to a flight point of wait til the whistle is ready to use.

So you can get bored faster?

[rda]

Ever think to consider that is the whole god damn issue with flight? Avoiding open world content for the sake of speed? Come on its been 4 years at this point. It's time to stop playing dumb.

Why is it an issue? It is only an issue for the devs who want to make everyone slow to get more sub money.

[Deleted]

I wonder if the people will get tired of this discussion at some point. How often did you repeat these arguments?

[Kazgrel]

I wonder if the people will get tired of this discussion at some point. How often did you repeat these arguments?

Likely will continue unless A. Blizz does a 180 and goes back to letting flight unlock upon level cap, albeit at a gold cost (and per character) as it was for years, or B. Pro-flight folks eventually get fed up and just quit the game and/or posting here.

Edit: Let's not forget that 20-some-odd thousand page thread of ranting and raving back when the whole change of flight deployment was originally brought up.

[clevin]

1. The problem is that in the real world you or your mount just step over a minor obstacle. In WoW you get stuck instead of moving over the minor obstacle. Ths is very unnerving. They ignore so many features they could simulate (like fatigue from running which they simulate in Diablo), but somehow such annoying minor obstacles HAVE TO BE THERE. Why? Same thing with items which hang from above and obscure your vision, so you constantly have to fiddle with the camera angle. It's annoying as Hell and has no use whatsoever....

And what makes this doubly annoying to me is that none of these branches, tree trunks, rocks etc are there randomly. Each one was placed in the path deliberately by a zone designer.

In reality, my mount would not just run into a branch and then continue to run into it over and over... it would go around it. Couple this with the "Oh you are a powerful [CLASS] and are key to defeating the Burning Legion... but you cannot climb a 4 foot rock" and the environmental obstacles are annoying as hell. Now combine that with zone designs in Stormheim and Highmountain that often give you one and only one way to get to something.

Then ask yourself this - how does any of this make the game BETTER? More fun? More interesting? How is the game really worse if I can fly over this crap that I've run through 50 or 100 times?

[Thimagryn]

So you can get bored faster?

Travel is boring, so it's not about getting bored faster as much as minimizing what's already boring. Face it, the world is trivial and mobs in your way don't pose any challenge or necessity to defeating them. Same with most environmental obstacles. They're just in your way and they don't add any real fun to getting from A to B (for the thousandth time). If there was any purpose to overcoming the obstacles between A to B, then we might have something to talk about. Right now, there isn't.

When it's a choice between do repeatedly boring task slower and longer or get repeatedly boring task out of the way quickly, which would you choose?