[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Zan15]

To be fair larger chunks of raiding take place in normal/heroic than mythic. I get that optimal play happens in mythic but many of the fights are different so it is a lot tougher to compare statements when one person is looking at it from heroic and another is basing it off of mythic.

that is because people can't get enough competent players to get past 1/10 or even the roadblock that is 3/10.
Then when they do, they are then handicapped by what classes and specs they do have.


Sure they take place, but that does not mean they are doing it right and are being carried by the other classes/players whom are.

Even in Heroic the class is falling behind.

[Kyanion]

that is because people can't get enough competent players to get past 1/10 or even the roadblock that is 3/10.
Then when they do, they are then handicapped by what classes and specs they do have.


Sure they take place, but that does not mean they are doing it right and are being carried by the other classes/players whom are.

Even in Heroic the class is falling behind.

I mean I get what you are saying I wasn't making any statements about the class doing well or falling behind or any of that. I'm just saying it is a little harder to compare how the legendaries work for the class when people will be using different ones depending on what mode they are on.

[wing5wong]

Ah okay so it's not a 3-target cleave in Mythic, nvm then, I can see ED being useful. Legit garbage in Heroic for the most part though (Krosus and maybe Trilliax).



Have you tried them? Boomkins have one relatively weak defensive (hardly an ohshit! button). Having a 50% heal (100% critical) is pretty nice for emergencies or for an external. I never said it's the best legendary or anything, but it sure as hell is nice to have. Also come 7.2, it'll be on-par with Shittidaria, though I'd argue even better overall since the first 10% hardly matters.

PS: Know how people praise Prydaz? If used when you get 20 stacks, Elune boots give more overall healing.
PPS: I also praise Prydaz. Don't misconstrue ^.

Yea they were my 4th.
Can certainly say i wasnt impressed when i got them after Ekowraith/prydaz/OI and certainly wouldnt choose them over prydaz.
After patch though yea, the feeling of...pain... wil be much less.

[Irefusetodie]

Yup.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...iew=analytical first few pulls was with starlord, inc, ss and nb. Later tries were starlord, sotf, ss, sd. I was averaging 70-75mil on first boss with ST spec, with aoe spec I do 80-90mil. Using Inc on cd first time, and pooling ap/saving pot and lust for p3. Aoe spec also allows you to have starfall on boss and lashers/orb for added dps.

In your first few pulls, when using ST build, Naturalist was dying around ~2:30-2:40. In every single pull with the AoE build, Naturalist dies after 3 minutes and sometimes towards 3:30, or not at all. Your overall DPS was more or less the same. When evaluating DPS you have to also compare kill times, not just how much damage you did.

I think you do your raid a disservice by going AoE spec on Botanist. Yes, AoE spec will do more damage in P1 and P2 but P1 and P2 are not a DPS race. They're a mechanics check. P3 is a DPS race, a ST one at that, and having Incarnation for it would do your raid more benefit than more orb/lasher damage.

[Ifeanychukwu]

@ ppl talking about m bot. Without IFE or EDC, I'm pulling more single target DPS, on prio targets with aoe build than I can with inc/nb. Ridiculous I know, but true non the less. Currently using lady n child and OI.

I've noticed the same thing, also using OI and Lady and the Child. I have 6 legendaries so far and none of them are the helm/ring. I'm really hopeful that I'll get the ring as my next, with my tier and shitty luck I've ended up at 28% haste, IFE would be an awesome boost to my haste and of course the effect itself. I've felt like my performance has been stagnating because I haven't gotten a single meaningful upgrade in nearly a month. Though last night I did finally replace my EN relic with a nice titanforged from a +14.

[Deleted]

Yup.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...iew=analytical first few pulls was with starlord, inc, ss and nb. Later tries were starlord, sotf, ss, sd. I was averaging 70-75mil on first boss with ST spec, with aoe spec I do 80-90mil. Using Inc on cd first time, and pooling ap/saving pot and lust for p3. Aoe spec also allows you to have starfall on boss and lashers/orb for added dps.

dude that dmg is terrible. you are 54 traits, i am similar ilvl with 45 traits and i am doing 100k more dps than you with incarnation stellar drift and ss, i have oi and ife lego's.

You have OI so pool the proc for the lashers and focus SS on prio target 4mins into the fight you are p2 with boss on 88% so you should have 3 dream of cenarius or incarnation in the fight with the last one ready for p3 burst/lust/2nd pot.

- - - Updated - - -

On another note; Cyous post on us forums re 7.2. We just need the starfall haste interaction reverted and a buff to stellar flare for our spread cleave and we are in a good spot.

[xtramuscle]

Snip

TL: DR Has IFE, uses incarnation and makes a post about dps. GJ.

[Kyanion]

TL: DR Has IFE, uses incarnation and makes a post about dps. GJ.

Right? What a nice person he was. I like that he is also telling you how to do the fight.

[huth]

On another note; Cyous post on us forums re 7.2. We just need the starfall haste interaction reverted and a buff to stellar flare for our spread cleave and we are in a good spot.

Why would you want the Starfall buff reverted?

[Zan15]

On another note; Cyous post on us forums re 7.2. We just need the starfall haste interaction reverted and a buff to stellar flare for our spread cleave and we are in a good spot.

well that will fix all our ST problems.

wait.

no it won't, why do people think aoe is a problem for us?

[Skyepic]

Yup.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...iew=analytical first few pulls was with starlord, inc, ss and nb. Later tries were starlord, sotf, ss, sd. I was averaging 70-75mil on first boss with ST spec, with aoe spec I do 80-90mil. Using Inc on cd first time, and pooling ap/saving pot and lust for p3. Aoe spec also allows you to have starfall on boss and lashers/orb for added dps.

As someone else already pointed out the numbers are a bit skewed due to the kill times on naturalist. But i would have to agree that regardless of whether your damage output on Naturalist is equal comparing AoE Build vs. Single Target you're going to gimp your raid in P3 when it's just a patchwerk burn and DPS actually matters. Unfortunately i can't link my logs because they're still private but i've killed the fight testing both specs and my damage breakdown was like so:

ST Build (using ED):
84m Naturalist
55m Arcanist / 40m lashers
100m Solarist

AoE Build:
75m Naturlist
62m Arcanist / 50m lashers
75m Solarist

A few takeways: if you don't have ED you'll obviously need to lower the ST build numbers a bit. If you do you'll see my naturalist damage for both specs is pretty much identical. The difference come in P2 vs P3. Ranged is on plasma sphere / lasher duty for like 50% of P2 so the ST build gets gimped due to target switching and losing out on 15% starsurge damage because the plasma spheres and lasher don't live long enough to justify apply both dots to get 4pc starsurge benefit. So as far as P2 is concerned the AoE build is going to give better throughput. However the AoE build falls of drastically in P3 when it's just a single target burn and the DPS is actually relevant. Sure you won't do 100m without ED but you'll definitely do more than 75m. And when the DPS check can come down to a matter of seconds before the last set of plasma spheres explode, that 15-20m could make all the difference.

TLDR: I would recommend using the ST Build for progression purposes. Once the boss is dead, do whatever you want for repeat kills.

[xtramuscle]

You have both EDC and IFE. You also have a higher ilv weapon and both bis trinkets WF. That said my AOE damage is beating your single target for both p1 and p2. I'm yet to kill the boss, and I get where you're coming from, but if I continue to play the aoe build well, with my legendaries I think I'll get fairly close to your damage on 3rd boss too. Where as If I swap to ST build my damage on p1 and p2 will plummet, where its arguably less valuable, but may not benefit much at all in p3. Currently getting to p3 is where we spend most of our time, so doing p1 and p2 well makes that easier. We're not wiping to dps, it's others making personal mistakes.

Thanks for your input and I'll link a log when we kill it this week.

[Myztikrice]

How do you guys know what items he has?

[xtramuscle]

His signature is a link to his armoury.

[Deleted]

Why would you want the Starfall buff reverted?

Starfall buff?

They removed it's interaction with Haste removing any real AE burst potential.

[Myztikrice]

His signature is a link to his armoury.

How do I see his signature? I can see yours

[Irefusetodie]

You have both EDC and IFE. You also have a higher ilv weapon and both bis trinkets WF. That said my AOE damage is beating your single target for both p1 and p2. I'm yet to kill the boss, and I get where you're coming from, but if I continue to play the aoe build well, with my legendaries I think I'll get fairly close to your damage on 3rd boss too. Where as If I swap to ST build my damage on p1 and p2 will plummet, where its arguably less valuable, but may not benefit much at all in p3. Currently getting to p3 is where we spend most of our time, so doing p1 and p2 well makes that easier. We're not wiping to dps, it's others making personal mistakes.

Thanks for your input and I'll link a log when we kill it this week.

If I were you, I'd just drop SOTF for Incarn. I highly doubt you're dropping multiple starfalls on lashers as is and, if you are, you should really tell your other ranged to pick it up. Lashers should die within a single Starfall so I really don't see the benefit of taking SOTF.

[Matchu]

How do I see his signature? I can see yours

If you're looking at the log, you can see the equipped gear like so. Otherwise you need his armoury, his is in his signature so check your settings.

[Skyepic]

You have both EDC and IFE. You also have a higher ilv weapon and both bis trinkets WF. That said my AOE damage is beating your single target for both p1 and p2. I'm yet to kill the boss, and I get where you're coming from, but if I continue to play the aoe build well, with my legendaries I think I'll get fairly close to your damage on 3rd boss too. Where as If I swap to ST build my damage on p1 and p2 will plummet, where its arguably less valuable, but may not benefit much at all in p3. Currently getting to p3 is where we spend most of our time, so doing p1 and p2 well makes that easier. We're not wiping to dps, it's others making personal mistakes.

Thanks for your input and I'll link a log when we kill it this week.

You can't really go off the gear i have on my Armory since we extended our lockout the past 2 weeks to kill Mythic Guldan. For the number examples given above i did not have/use whispers in the dark, i was using a mythic helya haste trinket (which to be fair is still good). Those numbers are from 3-4 weeks ago and my ilvl was 905 (which is practically the same as yours as you're doing progression on the fight right now).

Also, as far as P1 boss damage is concerned:

My guilds raid DPS: 9.5m
Your guilds raid DPS: 7.9m

So yeah, you're gunna do more boss damage than me cause the rest of my guild does more damage than yours. That isn't meant to be a slight towards you, i'm just making the point that comparing boss damage between me and you is a bit trivial because if the rest of your raids damage is lower the boss is going to live longer for you to do more damage to it. Some of that could be from people dying early though as your Phase One damage seems to fluctuate pretty drastically.

[Nijurez]

Hello I had a relic question.

Is it worth putting the Scythe of the Stars > 3ilvl relic,, rule in place if we don't have much crit. Would we really make use of it and is there a sweet spot for crit?