Is Quel'thalas ever going to get another monarch?

[steelballfc]

That is what spies are for.

so if i'm spying on your house i get better information's than being living in your house !?

[Combatbutler]

so if i'm spying on your house i get better information's than being living in your house !?

If you use someone who lives in my house. You can just smuggle in some blood elves, with blue eyes and pose as high elves, so that in an event of one being caught you undermine the silver covenant as well.

[Aucald]

There is a race that has less ties to the horde, the goblins, they are only in it for profit, literally. Once that runs out they would leave the faction in a heartbeat, the blood elves actually got a sense of loyalty towards the horde, Garrosh thrashed most of it though, but since the rest banded together to kick him to curb, there is a rather decent change they will properly become a part of it. Aethas simply tries extremely hard to get his sunreavers back into Dalaran, the fun part is not even all blood elves were purged from Dalaran, only those who were part of the sunreavers, prime example Magister Krelas.

The Goblins also have Thrall and co. to thank for their continued survival - Jastor Gallywix is solely motivated by profit but the Steamwheedle Cartel has a few more bonds to the Horde outside of material ones. The Blood Elves' initial support of the Horde was originally only a means to an end - a way to keep their nation-state safe as they forged a path to Outland in Kael'thas' stead, before they collectively discovered Kael'thas' betrayal and servitude to the Legion. Lingering hostility to the Alliance (for actions in both the Second and Third Wars) ensured they'd not depend on the Alliance for much the same reason as Rommath's strong distaste for the Kirin Tor.

At the Time Modera was in no position to order Aethas around, he was already a member of the six, he simply listened to her "advice". And concerning the fiasco with Garithos one or a handful of Kirin tor magi sneaking in and opening the cages of the blood elves would have been enough, but they didn't even bother with that.

True, I'd forgotten that Aethas was also in the Six at the the time, but I think he still considered himself her junior and deferred to her wisdom - for better or for worse. Rommath's strong dislike of the Kirin Tor is a product of the same strain of sentiment seen above. He blames the Kirin Tor for their inaction rightly or wrongly, for not moving to aid the Blood Elves during their captivity by Garithos. Rommath's anger towards Modera specifically and the Kirin Tor is possibly misplaced - she has always stood beside Aethas and the Blood Elves when it came to re-admission to the Kirin Tor (both times) and she aimed to keep Dalaran neutral during the heightened tensions between the Horde and Alliance. She would likely be Rommath's ally as well if he relaxed his stance on the matter.

[Combatbutler]

The Goblins also have Thrall and co. to thank for their continued survival - Jastor Gallywix is solely motivated by profit but the Steamwheedle Cartel has a few more bonds to the Horde outside of material ones. The Blood Elves' initial support of the Horde was originally only a means to an end - a way to keep their nation-state safe as they forged a path to Outland in Kael'thas' stead, before they collectively discovered Kael'thas' betrayal and servitude to the Legion. Lingering hostility to the Alliance (for actions in both the Second and Third Wars) ensured they'd not depend on the Alliance for much the same reason as Rommath's strong distaste for the Kirin Tor.

The loyalty of goblins reaches as far as their purse, that is simply the very core of their race, the steamwheedle are ultimately neutral and left the horde after the second war because it was no longer profitable , though they gave Baine a "discount" for retaking thunder bluff. Saving the skin of a goblin is not the way to ensure their loyalty, paying them handsomely is.

- - - Updated - - -

True, I'd forgotten that Aethas was also in the Six at the the time, but I think he still considered himself her junior and deferred to her wisdom - for better or for worse. Rommath's strong dislike of the Kirin Tor is a product of the same strain of sentiment seen above. He blames the Kirin Tor for their inaction rightly or wrongly, for not moving to aid the Blood Elves during their captivity by Garithos. Rommath's anger towards Modera specifically and the Kirin Tor is possibly misplaced - she has always stood beside Aethas and the Blood Elves when it came to re-admission to the Kirin Tor (both times) and she aimed to keep Dalaran neutral during the heightened tensions between the Horde and Alliance. She would likely be Rommath's ally as well if he relaxed his stance on the matter.

The anger is understandable, considering the Kirin tor really did absolutely nothing, despite the fact the elves had bled and died for Dalaran for centuries in some cases millennia and they were repaid with betrayal. All that was needed was a stealth mission to get them out under garithos nose. Whether Modera tried to uphold good relations afterwards is rather irrelevant, since she had proven to be unreliable in the most crucial of times.

[Aucald]

The loyalty of goblins reaches as far as their purse, that is simply the very core of their race, the steamwheedle are ultimately neutral and left the horde after the second war because it was no longer profitable , though they gave Baine a "discount" for retaking thunder bluff. Saving the skin of a goblin is not the way to ensure their loyalty, paying them handsomely is.

Capitalism is the ethos of the goblins, most definitely; but I don't think it precludes more traditional bonds that can bind them to an ideal - it just coexists rather uneasily beside them. I don't think the Cartel joined the horde formally in the Second War, either; not in the same way they've joined with them after the fall of Kezan. They simply were one of the only neutral parties to sell their wares and services to them even given their status as essentially alien invaders. Gallywix would sell the soul of his people to whoever offered up the highest price, but the individual rank and file among the goblins have different motivations or levels of loyalty. Notable goblins such as Boss Mida and Gazlowe seem to have a pronounced favor for the Horde - and Gazlowe has given Thrall preferred and lowered prices for his services as a master engineer many times in their shared history. It's very obvious that his friendship with the Horde and Thrall specifically tempers the materialistic streak that's omnipresent in the goblin race.

[Combatbutler]

Capitalism is the ethos of the goblins, most definitely; but I don't think it precludes more traditional bonds that can bind them to an ideal - it just coexists rather uneasily beside them. I don't think the Cartel joined the horde formally in the Second War, either; not in the same way they've joined with them after the fall of Kezan. They simply were one of the only neutral parties to sell their wares and services to them even given their status as essentially alien invaders. Gallywix would sell the soul of his people to whoever offered up the highest price, but the individual rank and file among the goblins have different motivations or levels of loyalty. Notable goblins such as Boss Mida and Gazlowe seem to have a pronounced favor for the Horde - and Gazlowe has given Thrall preferred and lowered prices for his services as a master engineer many times in their shared history. It's very obvious that his friendship with the Horde and Thrall specifically tempers the materialistic streak that's omnipresent in the goblin race.

True Gazlowe favors the horde, but he wouldn't break his neutrality for it, there is a limit to how far Goblins are willing to go , at the end of day they look at the pros and cons of a relation, the moment they stand to loose to much because of it, they cut the relation, with a few exceptions.

[Zulkhan]

As a member of the Kirin Tor he would be subordinate to Modera, who is a member of the Six. Rommath hasn't forgotten Modera's inaction during the Third War and their imprisonment in Dalaran - although its not really known if Modera was in a position to do anything about that given Dalaran's recent destruction and Garithos' grip on the city. Not saying that Aethas is right in his views, only that I can see where he is coming from in acting as Modera's agent and trying to add the considerable might of Silvermoon's magisters to Dalaran's own.

Well, Aethas' views being right or wrong is irrelevant, fact remains that he played a very subservient role. Maybe he was convinced to do some great good for his people but ultimately he was a tool meant to favor the Kirin Tor's own agenda.

[Aucald]

Well, Aethas' views being right or wrong is irrelevant, fact remains that he played a very subservient role. Maybe he was convinced to do some great good for his people but ultimately he was a tool meant to favor the Kirin Tor's own agenda.

Or he agreed with the Kirin Tor's agenda and was actively working to further it. The issue as I see it is in denigrating Aethas for doing what he thought was best for Silvermoon even if it proved to be incorrect, or even if he was wrong to put his trust in Modera or the Kirin Tor. It has the definite feel of blaming the victim for being manipulated when otherwise their intentions were noble. Aethas isn't Modera's slave or toady, he just put his trust in an order that didn't always have the best interests of his people at heart (and I would put that more on Jaina and Anserim than I would Modera to be quite honest). Rommath quite rightly calls Aethas out on his naivete and idealism toward the Kirin Tor, but he also doesn't recognize his own bias stemming from their inaction during the Third War.

When faced with two extreme positions on a thing, the actual truth of the matter has a tendency to be somewhere closer to the middle.

[Zulkhan]

Goblins are a curious kind, they're guided by greed for the most part but some still hold some weird "honor code" of theirs. It's still strictly functional to their capitalistic mentality but is just to say not every goblin is entirely amoral, if you earn the "loyalty" of that kind of goblins is possible they'll not as easily betray you for someone giving them a bigger cash, as long you ensure that a satisfying cash still arrives in their pockets. That's probably the place where the Horde-aligned Bligewater goblins are, given how they surely acknowledge the role Thrall and the Horde had in their achieved safety and maintained security. Of course we also saw how quickly they turned against Garrosh the moment they judged his payment policies as unfair and unsatisfying, even though Goblins and Gallywix in particular remained on Garrosh's side for arguably the longest and without the slightest crack in loyalty until that moment.

About Blood Elves I say times have changed and Lor'themar shown an increasing sense of loyalty towards the faction. Garrosh may have initially done some damage but ultimately served as further unifying factor when Vol'jin's revolution came to be and the troll offered Lor'themar a place for his people in the post-Garrosh Horde (most likely the content of the "talks" Vol'jin says to wanting to have with Lor'themar in one of his letters during the 5.1 questline).

It's most likely because of that if Lor'themar went from almost joining the Alliance to saying things like these in the 5.2:

"Victory for the Sin'dorei, and another triumph for the Horde!"

"Brothers and sisters of the Horde!"

"We are the Horde! We do not back down!"

Something must have reinvigorated that loyalty for sure. And given how Blood Elves have definitely thrown all their chips on Lor'themar when it comes to leadership, this feeling must have spread and grown over time.

- - - Updated - - -

Or he agreed with the Kirin Tor's agenda and was actively working to further it.

Aethas and the Kirin Tor couldn't have the same exact agendas because they were in different positions entirely. Aethas let himself to be used because of his convictions but the Kirin Tor ultimately cared little about that, what they needed was magical profiency to fend Malygos and Arthas off. They went and and lent a mending hand of "friendship" only when they were in desperate need of help and used Aethas as as a way to achieve that. But when Jaina went batshit crazy in the 5.1 they once again did nothing to make a difference, even though by all political terms they had the power to question Jaina's decisions and actions.

[Aucald]

Aethas and the Kirin Tor couldn't have the same exact agendas because they were in different positions entirely. Aethas let himself to be used because of his convictions but the Kirin Tor ultimately cared little about that, what they needed was magical profiency to fend Malygos and Arthas off. They went and and lent a mending hand of "friendship" only when they were in desperate need of help and used Aethas as as a way to achieve that. But when Jaina went batshit crazy in the 5.1 they once again did nothing to make a difference, even though by all political terms they had the power to question Jaina's decisions and actions.

Pretty easy to me to see how Aethas might view the importance of the Kirin Tor's plight to Silvermoon. Aethas wants the Blood Elves to be represented in the center-stage of a global concern, said concern primarily being a tussle with the Blue Dragonflight that ultimately threatens *all* users of the Arcane on the Azeroth. As a result he feels naturally inclined to reach out to Silvermoon as Malygos' crusade would spell the end of their culture just as it would Dalaran's. Rommath acted as if Malygos' threat to Dalaran concerned only Dalaran (part and parcel of his rather isolationist viewpoint), but if Malygos went undefeated then he would take possession of all the Ley lines and all magic on Azeroth - including Silvermoon and greater Quel'Thalas. It was in the Blood Elves' own interest, and Rommath's specifically, to aid in this campaign - a point that Halduron soberly made during their arguments in "Shadow of the Sun."

As for Jaina's indiscretions, well, there's much to say for that. It was a catastrophic mistake to appoint Jaina as the leader of Dalaran so fresh after her trauma conga-line in Theramore. I have no idea what the Kirin Tor was smoking when they made that particular decision and what followed after was pretty much the expected progression one would imagine from a boneheaded call like that.

[Koryn123]

Calling Modera an advocate for the Blood Elves at every turn would be ignoring how she behaves on the Isle of Thunder. Not regretfully like "The Blood Elves were our allies, but there's no going back now," but instead taking sadistic pleasure in the knowledge that Horde would suffer at the Saurok's hands.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:The_S...eat_(Alliance)

"One day, this island will belong to the Alliance. I can only hope that it will be free of saurok before then.

<Modera sneers.>

At least they attack the Horde, too."

Modera was essentially just another Vereesa, another extension of Jaina's flip-floppy persona of "oh, I've forgiven x person, I can heal now" *A few moments laytell* "I WILL MURDER EVERYONE WITH THE SLIGHTEST RESEMBLANCE TO ANYONE WHO IS THE SAME RACE AS SOMEONE IN THE HORDE!!!"

The sort of writing used for Modera on the Isle of Thunder is not one of a person actually interested in working together with anyone for mutual benefit, or having had any compassion for them at all. It's one of barely concealed disdain held for the Blood Elves all those years as they were supposed allies, and she can finally let it out now that Jaina had brought the Kirin Tor back into the Alliance without consulting any of her fellow council members (leader of a council doesn't make you supreme empress of the magical kingdom, it makes you the one figure that all the public knows is on the Council of Six, while the other members' identities were secret, at least pre-WotLK).

Then again, it's not surprising, as the Kirin Tor weren't even willing to apologize to the Blood Elves in order to get their help against Malygos, or to get them back into Dalaran. Instead, Blizzard crams it down our throats that the Blood Elves are in the wrong, AND they're so eager for more abuse that they are all begging and groveling to be the Kirin Tor's laptogs again.

Why is it that the Blood Elves have to be the ones to put aside their pride to work together? Just a simple "sorry we weren't even willing to lift a finger to save a member of the Council of Six and his most loyal followers, effectively pissing away 3,000 years of friendship as the reclusive elves' closest ally" would do. I just want Blizzard to have characters acknowledge these things, instead of forcing us to believe nobody in the story cares.

Rommath is the ONLY character who hasn't gone completely bananas, it seems. Rommath is the only real blood elf still remaining in WoW's story. All the rest have been watered down so that Blizzard can present the Kirin Tor and humans as perfect moral supermen because nobody besides Rommath ever points out their bullshit, which makes them extremely bland and boring.

[Friendlyimmolation]

On the flip side, if Rommath killed Aethas/ modera/ or Vereesa for fucking trying to shoot an arrow at him, people would go apeshit.

"how dare he " etc.

[Aucald]

Calling Modera an advocate for the Blood Elves at every turn would be ignoring how she behaves on the Isle of Thunder. Not regretfully like "The Blood Elves were our allies, but there's no going back now," but instead taking sadistic pleasure in the knowledge that Horde would suffer at the Saurok's hands.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:The_S...eat_(Alliance)


Modera was essentially just another Vereesa, another extension of Jaina's flip-floppy persona of "oh, I've forgiven x person, I can heal now" *A few moments laytell* "I WILL MURDER EVERYONE WITH THE SLIGHTEST RESEMBLANCE TO ANYONE WHO IS THE SAME RACE AS SOMEONE IN THE HORDE!!!"

It's interesting how the context of a quote changes based on your partisanship insofar as the Horde or Alliance goes - because I read that quote as more Modera sneering at the Saurok, with the final part about the Horde being more of a "well, at least" type of aside comment. She doesn't come across as advocating for the destruction of the Horde, just the admission that if the Saurok weren't contained they would threaten the Alliance's campaign on the Isle.

In regards to the relationship between the Kirin Tor and the Blood Elves, I think the situation is several orders of magnitude beyond simple right or wrong. Modera, Aethas, or even Jaina herself aren't themselves the Kirin Tor - they don't themselves alone set the policies of the government in question. Rommath isn't wrong to blame the Kirin Tor for their inaction during the Blood Elves' imprisonment and potential execution during the Third War - that did happen, and it was a terrible thing for the Kirin Tor to permit *in their city* to what had once been a loyal ally. But for him to blame Modera directly? That smacks of just needing a specific face on which to pin the blame, also understandable but not completely accurate.

I think the story is painted well in shades of grays and abstracts, letting you (as the player) decide how to view things, and which particular representation of events you cleave to. But from a more top-level, out of context viewpoint, the truth about the Kirin Tor and the Blood Elves' relationship is lot more complex than just blame for what happened. Rommath was willing to ignore the threat that Malygos represented to *all* spellcasters to spit in the eye of the Kirin Tor - similar to the mistake Anasterian made in not being proactive about the Horde in the First and Second Wars thinking Quel'Thalas untouchable by the Horde. Many High Elven lives could've been saved had he roused Silvermoon to the danger the Horde represented before Quel'Thalas was attacked.

The Kirin Tor, too; should admit their mistakes about the Blood Elves and stop acting as if they are somehow above or beyond reproach. The grievances Silvermoon has are very real and should be addressed - and Dalaran should remember that it owes its very existence to the High/Blood Elves. If they truly wish to be neutral and serve as the face of all magic-users on Azeroth then they need to stop being quite so humanocentric (if that's the right word).

[steelballfc]

On the flip side, if Rommath killed Aethas/ modera/ or Vereesa for fucking trying to shoot an arrow at him, people would go apeshit.

"how dare he " etc.

if that happens, he would instantly become my 3rd fav char

[Zulkhan]

It's interesting how the context of a quote changes based on your partisanship insofar as the Horde or Alliance goes - because I read that quote as more Modera sneering at the Saurok, with the final part about the Horde being more of a "well, at least" type of aside comment. She doesn't come across as advocating for the destruction of the Horde, just the admission that if the Saurok weren't contained they would threaten the Alliance's campaign on the Isle.

I wouldn't be so sure about it. Reading the quote you have Modera sneering right before adding the bit about the Horde suffering from Saurok's attacks as well. That sounds like amusement towards such further factor. And that's quite telling, considered that 90% of the Horde in the Isle of Thunder were Blood Elves and a good half of them were the very Sunreavers the Council of Dalaran indirectly pushed into the Horde to begin with (because, again, Jaina was no Queen of Dalaran yet could act like one because someone clearly let her to).

[Aucald]

I wouldn't be so sure about it. Reading the quote you have Modera sneering right before adding the bit about the Horde suffering from Saurok's attacks as well. That sounds like amusement towards such further factor. And that's quite telling, considered that 90% of the Horde in the Isle of Thunder were Blood Elves and a good half of them were the very Sunreavers the Council of Dalaran indirectly pushed into the Horde to begin with (because, again, Jaina was no Queen of Dalaran yet could act like one because someone clearly let her to).

I'm not saying the original take is wrong, only that perspective colors how you take someone's personality via text. It is somewhat out of character for Modera to sneer at the Horde (the Blood Elves especially) considering that she supported unification previously and supported it again after the events of MoP during Legion. If Modera truly was sneering at the Horde's misfortunes with the Saurok then it's quite a body-swerve for her personality wise, although that's not really uncommon in Warcraft's characters either.

[Koryn123]

I'm not saying the original take is wrong, only that perspective colors how you take someone's personality via text. It is somewhat out of character for Modera to sneer at the Horde (the Blood Elves especially) considering that she supported unification previously and supported it again after the events of MoP during Legion. If Modera truly was sneering at the Horde's misfortunes with the Saurok then it's quite a body-swerve for her personality wise, although that's not really uncommon in Warcraft's characters either.

Having Modera be like "Others on the Council are not so forgiving as I" was just so human fans can be all "hmmhmmhmm~ Humans are so nice and charitable, silly Blood Elves better appreciate their generosity~"

And having Aethas be willing to commit treason of the highest order, after he'd been readmitted into his own society, just throwing it all away to be a second-class citizen in Dalaran, never to be trusted with anything ever again, to be whispered about behind his back, really spits in the face of Blood Elf fans. At every single turn, Blizzard makes everyone except Rommath trip over each other to be the Kirin Tor's lapdogs, or forget the Blood Elves altogether in favor of the Kirin Tor.

Like having the Horde commander in Draenor travel halfway across the continent to have the Kirin Tor (who just months before had demonstrated how clearly they favored the Alliance, and wouldn't bat an eye if anyone wanted to kill the Horde) set up their arcane sanctum, rather than any Blood Elves among them.

What's really insulting is how Blizzard chose to completely ignore any followup to the Purge's story. I don't think they realized how riled up it got people, so they weren't willing to have any sort of satisfying resolution because having the Kirin Tor say sorry for their second instance of standing by while Blood Elves were slaughtered in Dalaran would piss off blindly loyal Alliance fanboys, and having the Blood Elves say sorry would piss off Blood Elf fans (blindly loyal or not). Unfortunately, Blizzard opts to give all development to their first-most-played race, while leaving their second-most-played race in the dust with nothing, forced to sit in BC-era Blood Elf tents, while humans get new models for the slightest human-themed clump of dirt.

In WoD, they completely ignored the Purge, and didn't answer anyone when they asked why Magister Krelas, a blood elf, was with the Kirin Tor. Firstly, why the Kirin Tor would accept him, and secondly, why he would want to be with the people who actively screw over his entire race whenever they can, and never apologize.

And now in Legion, they decided they'd waited long enough for the Purge outrage to die down to have Aethas just completely roll over and take it from the Kirin Tor and be their loyal, battered, abused little puppy. And not only Aethas, but the entirety of the Sunreavers.

And it sucks, because the Sunreavers and Liadrins get all the attention these days. We need more Rommaths in the spotlight. Blood elves with a shred of dignity and pride in their own abilities, not always deferring to the almighty 30-year old human magi's expertise.

If Jaina ever becomes a raid boss, it better be Blood Elves leading the charge and getting the kill. But of course, we all know it'll be Khadgar, or whatever human they have filling the Tirion/Khadgar role of that expansion. Probably Anduin.

[Aucald]

Having Modera be like "Others on the Council are not so forgiving as I" was just so human fans can be all "hmmhmmhmm~ Humans are so nice and charitable, silly Blood Elves better appreciate their generosity~"

I agree, that's an element of humanocentrism that the Kirin Tor needs to move away from if they want to be the neutral power set over all Arcane practitioners that they seem to aspire to.

And having Aethas be willing to commit treason of the highest order, after he'd been readmitted into his own society, just throwing it all away to be a second-class citizen in Dalaran, never to be trusted with anything ever again, to be whispered about behind his back, really spits in the face of Blood Elf fans. At every single turn, Blizzard makes everyone except Rommath trip over each other to be the Kirin Tor's lapdogs, or forget the Blood Elves altogether in favor of the Kirin Tor.

I think, at the end of the day, Aethas' loyalties belong to Dalaran and he places the Kirin Tor above the concerns of Silvermoon or the Magisters. I don't think we know much about Aethas' history, but I'd imagine he considers Dalaran his home - he was probably born and raised there, and learned his trade as a Mage there. This would explain his willingness to sacrifice his credibility to be included once more among the ranks of the Six or the Kirin Tor. It's his home and those are his people, at least as far as he's concerned. Rommath probably views Aethas' loyalties as misplaced and naive, and I can imagine him rolling his eyes whenever he catches word of the younger Mage's pratfalls.

Like having the Horde commander in Draenor travel halfway across the continent to have the Kirin Tor (who just months before had demonstrated how clearly they favored the Alliance, and wouldn't bat an eye if anyone wanted to kill the Horde) set up their arcane sanctum, rather than any Blood Elves among them.

If I recall correctly it's Khadgar that assists with the establishing of the Arcane Sanctum on Draenor, not the Kirin Tor. Khadgar is as neutral as they come. Jaina, leader of the Kirin Tor at the time, was entirely against it but she couldn't stop Khadgar from doing what he felt needed to be done.

What's really insulting is how Blizzard chose to completely ignore any followup to the Purge's story. I don't think they realized how riled up it got people, so they weren't willing to have any sort of satisfying resolution because having the Kirin Tor say sorry for their second instance of standing by while Blood Elves were slaughtered in Dalaran would piss off blindly loyal Alliance fanboys, and having the Blood Elves say sorry would piss off Blood Elf fans (blindly loyal or not). Unfortunately, Blizzard opts to give all development to their first-most-played race, while leaving their second-most-played race in the dust with nothing, forced to sit in BC-era Blood Elf tents, while humans get new models for the slightest human-themed clump of dirt.

I would also like to see the effect of the Purge reflected in the storyline - even if it were offhandedly via NPC text or passing comments. Especially with the radically changed dynamic in Dalaran, and the introduction of an entirely "new" group of Arcane-using Elves in the form of the Shal'dorei.

In WoD, they completely ignored the Purge, and didn't answer anyone when they asked why Magister Krelas, a blood elf, was with the Kirin Tor. Firstly, why the Kirin Tor would accept him, and secondly, why he would want to be with the people who actively screw over his entire race whenever they can, and never apologize.

Krelas being a Blood Elf might've been a technical glitch, as during the Beta he was a High Elf with blue-colored eyes and was changed suddenly when WoD went Live. Other than that, since Khadgar refers to him as a close friend its possible he served the Kirin Tor entirely at Khadgar's patronage and contrary to Jaina's ban on the Horde (something Khadgar actively mocked during the same questline).

And now in Legion, they decided they'd waited long enough for the Purge outrage to die down to have Aethas just completely roll over and take it from the Kirin Tor and be their loyal, battered, abused little puppy. And not only Aethas, but the entirety of the Sunreavers.

With Jaina and her stalwarts gone from the equation the original cause of the Purge is also gone - Khadgar is a far more temperate leader and probably carries a lot more credibility with him insofar as the Horde is concerned. Only Ansirem remains as the remaining anti-Horde member of the Six and he's completely outflanked by the others.

[Koryn123]

I agree, that's an element of humanocentrism that the Kirin Tor needs to move away from if they want to be the neutral power set over all Arcane practitioners that they seem to aspire to.

Exactly. Today's Dalaran is only fun for humans because humans are the only ones there who get any recognition. It's not fun to make all the other races hang out in a city that's supposedly a melting pot of everybody, when humans are the only ones who ever get to contribute in a meaningful way (that way usually being completely spanking any other race who steps a toe out of line).

I think, at the end of the day, Aethas' loyalties belong to Dalaran and he places the Kirin Tor above the concerns of Silvermoon or the Magisters. I don't think we know much about Aethas' history, but I'd imagine he considers Dalaran his home - he was probably born and raised there, and learned his trade as a Mage there. This would explain his willingness to sacrifice his credibility to be included once more among the ranks of the Six or the Kirin Tor. It's his home and those are his people, at least as far as he's concerned. Rommath probably views Aethas' loyalties as misplaced and naive, and I can imagine him rolling his eyes whenever he catches word of the younger Mage's pratfalls.

That helps a little with my view of him, understanding why he's so loyal to Dalaran, but if that's the case, then he's even more insufferable for thinking he could get Felo'melorn and hock it to the Kirin Tor to buy his way back into Dalaran.

If I recall correctly it's Khadgar that assists with the establishing of the Arcane Sanctum on Draenor, not the Kirin Tor. Khadgar is as neutral as they come. Jaina, leader of the Kirin Tor at the time, was entirely against it but she couldn't stop Khadgar from doing what he felt needed to be done.

But there's no way the Horde commander would be familiar enough with all Khadgar's Kirin Tor to know that none of them were loyal to Jaina or felt as she did about the Horde. One mage there could have tampered with the Horde arcane sanctum and caused a catastrophe if they wanted. The Horde commander was very irresponsible for going to the Kirin Tor first, when they should have turned to their own magical expertise.

I would also like to see the effect of the Purge reflected in the storyline - even if it were offhandedly via NPC text or passing comments. Especially with the radically changed dynamic in Dalaran, and the introduction of an entirely "new" group of Arcane-using Elves in the form of the Shal'dorei.

Mhmm. The last thing any elf fan wanted to see was Khadgar swooping in to steal the spotlight and being the ultimate savior of the Nightborne because the silly blood/high/night elves can't do anything without help.

Krelas being a Blood Elf might've been a technical glitch, as during the Beta he was a High Elf with blue-colored eyes and was changed suddenly when WoD went Live. Other than that, since Khadgar refers to him as a close friend its possible he served the Kirin Tor entirely at Khadgar's patronage and contrary to Jaina's ban on the Horde (something Khadgar actively mocked during the same questline).

Can't see the Horde trusting a high elf, but either way, these things should be explained clearly by Blizzard in-game. It's bad storytelling to make everything so vague and leave it to the fans to fill in the blanks for themselves. Just a tiny bit of quest text like Khadgar knew him from the Second War and got back in touch with him when he came back from Outland, and they're good friends, so he helps him out. That'd be fine.

With Jaina and her stalwarts gone from the equation the original cause of the Purge is also gone - Khadgar is a far more temperate leader and probably carries a lot more credibility with him insofar as the Horde is concerned. Only Ansirem remains as the remaining anti-Horde member of the Six and he's completely outflanked by the others.

Ansirem is even more obnoxious, saying "how do we know he won't just betray us again?" says the man who betrayed his colleague Kael'thas by doing nothing.

Uuuuugh. I hope next xpac, Blizzard has race equivalents to order halls. Give that same level of attention to detail to the individual races as they've given to individual classes. That would help to re-inject some identity into their races that have all been so watered down over the years to be the humans' sidekicks and the orcs' meatshields. Since the classes are so different lore-wise (witch doctors vs. holy priests of the human church) that it really feels very jarring to have them all hamfisted into one way of doing things, which is most often the human way, whenever possible.

More Blood Elf architecture, please. At the very least...just one HD tent would do, Blizzard.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The line for the blood elves was crossed multiple times, Next time Dalaran needs help I hope the Blood elves choose to watch them suffer instead. If Aethas or even Khadgar dies in a situation like that so be it. I'd say let Vereesa die too, but shes so worthlessly inept by herself that she will never be a serious threat to blood elves again.