[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Deleted]

Conclusion reroll to Warrior or DK if you wanna be top, would be nice if they reverted that utterly pointless ~7% crusade nerf they did.

I doubt DK will be that good in ToS though, will be really hard to maintain Breath of sindragosa with all mechanics forcing you to leave melee range.
My prediction is that Rogues(pretty much all speccs)/havoc/destro are going to destroy everything this tier since mobility for melee will be really important.

[Ulthane]

Feels good man: Got legendary cloak
Feels bad man: Can't exactly use because im breaking 4pc and lose too much haste due to only shoulders other than lego shoulders are 870.

Question though: Cloak + 4pc are we finding Zeal coming ahead or TFOJ?

[Bonkura]

Cloak makes TFoJ better than Zeal, not the other way around. It's around 2.5k dps in SimC for me though so it doesn't really matter for single target. Gets more interesting on multiple targets where Zeal starts pulling ahead.

[Demsi]

Is zeal the default option for ret now?

[metalali]

are ppl still using simulationcraft even tho they havent updated cof? or is there anything more accurate?

[Morally Grey Storm]

zeal+DH makes rotation too slow, and Ring is obviously a lot weaker than cloak+belt
Under no circumstances will I respec mid-raid to swap between BoW and DH on a fight-to-fight basis.

[Deleted]

With 4p it is usually the case (if one of your legendaries is the ring, then certainly is)

No that is incorrect. Zeal is pretty much a dead talent for raiding (I can't actually think of one scenario where you'd want to use it). Even if you have the ring. The increased AoE you either gain from tfoj through more DS or greater judgment through better 4 cleave is waaaay better than zeal in all circumstances.
On top of that, Zeal is really clunky.

Don't believe me or want proof? Look at all top100 logs for rets in NH mythic. The consensus is pretty clear.

[Ulthane]

Good to know.

[Deleted]

Don't believe me or want proof? Look at all top100 logs for rets in NH mythic. The consensus is pretty clear.

Any of those logs that isn't using the legendary cloak?

[Colmadero]

Got Draught of Souls last night. Any general consensus as to when to use it?

Logic dictates to use to sometime during 15 stacks of Crusade but wanted to hear your guys' thoughts.

[Deleted]

Oh well done the mistake and checked 90% percentile of mythic fights in NH and disappointed all over. Actually only fights we doing relatively well-ish are lightcleave. On ST oriented fights only class that performs worse are monks.
And ofc lets see what they came up with for 7.2 : minor buff to aoe .
Once again thank you blizzard for listening to our concerns and answering them by giving us the finger (bet its only a matter of time till Ion comes up on a Q&A and tells us that it is our fault and we are not playing the class correctly).

[Wrecktangle]

zeal+DH makes rotation too slow, and Ring is obviously a lot weaker than cloak+belt
Under no circumstances will I respec mid-raid to swap between BoW and DH on a fight-to-fight basis.

I just use DH full time in NH. I do more DPS with it even ST lol. I have too much haste that BoW is often unable to be used as quickly as its up and I have like 15% vers so hammers hit pretty hard.

[Deleted]

Oh well done the mistake and checked 90% percentile of mythic fights in NH and disappointed all over. Actually only fights we doing relatively well-ish are lightcleave. On ST oriented fights only class that performs worse are monks.
And ofc lets see what they came up with for 7.2 : minor buff to aoe .
Once again thank you blizzard for listening to our concerns and answering them by giving us the finger (bet its only a matter of time till Ion comes up on a Q&A and tells us that it is our fault and we are not playing the class correctly).

Yeah, it is the same pattern every expansion. Rets are really good in the beginning and then falls rock bottom.
We are lacking a lot in ST, and new traits and tier20 bonuses are looking REALLY bad. Considering like 6/9 bossfights in ToS will be ST... well it's not looking good lads. Meanwhile most classes are getting huge ST upgrades through traits/tier.

If there won't be a major change (there is still a chance..) we are literally screwed.
@maaghen You can check for yourself, but even rets like me who have belt+ring are still not using Zeal.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Got Draught of Souls last night. Any general consensus as to when to use it?

Logic dictates to use to sometime during 15 stacks of Crusade but wanted to hear your guys' thoughts.

Drop it like it's turd.

I just use DH full time in NH. I do more DPS with it even ST lol. I have too much haste that BoW is often unable to be used as quickly as its up and I have like 15% vers so hammers hit pretty hard.

IKR?
I've applied to a semi-prog guild where literally every raidmember did swap talents on literally every fight.
Feth that.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh well done the mistake and checked 90% percentile of mythic fights in NH and disappointed all over. Actually only fights we doing relatively well-ish are lightcleave. On ST oriented fights only class that performs worse are monks.
And ofc lets see what they came up with for 7.2 : minor buff to aoe .
Once again thank you blizzard for listening to our concerns and answering them by giving us the finger (bet its only a matter of time till Ion comes up on a Q&A and tells us that it is our fault and we are not playing the class correctly).

Well , the balance is balanced, so I don't see no problem here.
Whiny retkids are whining, which means it's working as intended.

You got GBoM removed and an accent was moved from Crusade to Divine Noproc ,
You should be grateful.

[Colmadero]

@Storm the Sorrow

Why's that?

A strength stat stick is better?
I currently have 870 skorpyron trinket, 865 EoC, 860~ Arcanocrystal, 855 FCM and now this 895 DoS

[Morally Grey Storm]

@Storm the Sorrow

Why's that?

A strength stat stick is better?
I currently have 870 skorpyron trinket, 865 EoC, 860~ Arcanocrystal, 855 FCM and now this 895 DoS

anything is better.
Berserker's Call is better.

It was gone over a lof of times, actually.
DoS desyncs with Crusade , stops you from doing anything at all, has a weird position requirement, and therefore is less than mediocre for Ret.
Or the other way , diffrent trinkets are a lot better.
Feth, my 850 FCM is better than 880 DoS.

[Redblade]

@Storm the Sorrow

Why's that?

A strength stat stick is better?
I currently have 870 skorpyron trinket, 865 EoC, 860~ Arcanocrystal, 855 FCM and now this 895 DoS

In theory it's good on single target if you have CoF, in practice it has very limited use and you're better off using something else though. I used it a bit for out Star Auger progression but due to how awkward it is to use I just swapped it out.

[elvor0]

So do we have any info on how powerful Mastery will be next patch? Aim for it once you get Judge Unworthy? Once you get 4pc T20? Not at all?

[Deleted]

Reckon that tier set will simply bring it on par with the rest. And depending on how that trait will actually will work out on live it could be on par with haste for aoe situaa

[Reith]

Reckon that tier set will simply bring it on par with the rest. And depending on how that trait will actually will work out on live it could be on par with haste for aoe situaa

I wouldn't be surprised if mastery edged out other stats after a certain point with T20 4P and Judge Unworthy. 5 of the fights in Tomb are single target, apparently, so Blade of Wrath will see use, but Divine Hammer will be really good on the other fights.