Ret DPS

[evilseyes00]

i need a some help with ret i dont understand what stats i should be aiming at i simmed myself with 22% crit 32%haste 18%mast 11% vers simm at 713k this is with Draught to get the haste to even reach 32% then i simm with 23%crit 22% haste 22%mast 15%vers at 712k i switch out a 895 Urn and add in Draught to get to 24% haste i sim at 715k all these are with 4 piece with Legendary Cloak and Liadrins with Convergence of course. i am trying to get a better stat stick trinket for 2nd but all i have is urn atm

first time posting wont let me link Armory or logs

added a 22%crit 28%haste 18%mast 11%vers sim
with 895 urn -711k
with 865 eye of command - 706k

[Tycondriel]

From my understanding this isn't surprising. Draught is awful for a Paladin as the cooldown conflicts with crusade, so you're missing out on that crusade dmg if you are using the trinket on cooldown. Even with the decrease in haste it's going to be better for you to equip urn. if I'm reading what you're saying above correctly then I would suggest you use CoF/Urn over draught.

To answer your exact question about stat priorities I understand that after 31% haste it becomes significantly less valuable. So you're wasting stats at 32%. Anywhere between 22% - 30% is completely acceptable, assuming all the rest of your stats is not going into mastery.

713, especially single target is not bad DPS so if you're pulling that you're doing okay. If you're not hitting that mark and wondering as to why then your armory is only going to say so much, need to look at logs.

Thank you!
Theyne

[Reith]

Try to go for Horn of Valor at a higher mythic+ level. It will help a lot. Not if you're pairing it with Convergence, though, unfortunately.

[OrcsRLame]

Imo concerning trinkets there's a few that are worth using.

BiS in most fights is probably Claw of the Crystalline Scorpid and a high ilvl Chains of the Valorous or other stat stick, any stat but mastery will do but vers is best.

Convergence is either the best trinket ever or very bad. I wouldn't use it on most fights but it's god-tier on mythic Krosus.

In general, you never want to unequip Claw of the Crystalline Scorpid, so it's really just a bunch of other trinkets competing for the second slot.

Horn of Valor is good on AoE fights where you can pop Crusade on AoE. Faulty Countermeasure is good on fights where single target is more important.

Memento of Angerboda and Entwined Elemental Foci are both pretty decent. Same ilvl Angerboda is a little better on paper and much better when people start dying, as you get free procs on deaths.

Terrorbound Nexus is surprisingly good if you have a high ilvl one. Really mediocre on single target, but crushes shit on AoE if you get good procs.

I wouldn't really consider any other trinkets. Eye of Command is a thing that exists, but it severely limits your options mechanically, and imo is not good in practice. Draught is not awful, but if you have legendary cloak it gets a lot worse.

[evilseyes00]

yes i understand i dont think i would ever reach these numbers unless i really just stood still
i was just wondering why at 32% i sim the same dps as 22% and 28%
or am i missing something
i mean these numbers are only Ks off

[Splatter]

ok so are u talking about 5 man mythic here or raiding

- - - Updated - - -

sorry if i wasnt clear im talking raid dps, mythic+ i would think is more aoe or am i wrong

Your stats and sim damage are very similar to mine with the exception of haste. I have 21% haste and 25% crit, 15% vers 18% mastery. I sim just over 700k as well. Honestly it doesn't seem to make a significant difference to damage with a stat juggle. If you really want to know you should run your toon through simcraft with the scaling on. It will give you stat weights telling you what stats will give the biggest dps boost. When over 22% haste its value drops dramatically for me and it rates lower than mastery. Crit is on par with strength and vers just behind. CoF might increase the value of haste though.

I use mythic skorp trinket and an 895 vers stat stick. Will be running a CoF if I can actually get my hands on one.

Its a shitty answer to give but "you need to sim yourself" (with scaling on).

yes i understand i dont think i would ever reach these numbers unless i really just stood still
i was just wondering why at 32% i sim the same dps as 22% and 28%
or am i missing something
i mean these numbers are only Ks off

Because stat values are so close. When you lose 10% haste you gain 10% in other stats (crit/vers) etc. With their values so close the dps loss/gain is not noticeable.

[Reith]

yes i understand i dont think i would ever reach these numbers unless i really just stood still
i was just wondering why at 32% i sim the same dps as 22% and 28%
or am i missing something
i mean these numbers are only Ks off

Once you reach a certain amount of haste, crit and versatility just get better overall. If you sim Divine Purpose, though, it's a lot closer together, but at 20% it's not really viable for raiding.

[Nition]

How are people simming over 700k honestly. Is the cloak/belt (which I don't have) really causing people to sim that high? I'm at 904 ilvl equipped and only simming 640k(ish), but stuck with neck and trinket as my leggys.

[Meiffert]

i was just wondering why at 32% i sim the same dps as 22% and 28%
or am i missing something

Well, why do you think the results should be that much different?

With my gear, the relative stat weights are something like:
haste = 1
vers = 1
crit = 1
mast = 0.9

Swapping around items with same ilvl and different secondary stats has pretty much no effect on my dps.

A typical gear set will have mastery a bit lower than I do and you should choose an item without it if you can, but generally a higher ilvl item will be better and secondary stats aren't too relevant.

How are people simming over 700k honestly. Is the cloak/belt (which I don't have) really causing people to sim that high? I'm at 904 ilvl equipped and only simming 640k(ish), but stuck with neck and trinket as my leggys.

1. Item level.
The amount of stats on gear increases exponentially with ilvl, therefore going from 900 to 910 has much higher impact in absolute numbers than going from 850 to 860 for example. Your ilvl is decent, but you are still a bit behind the 910+ crowd.

2. Tier set, legendaries, trinkets, special effect items (melandrus ring for warriors etc.)
These pieces often provide around 5 % dps increase, which is ~ 30k with todays numbers for every high impact item effect.

3. Fight length.
I think the default value in simcraft is 10 minutes, but many people prefer to sim at 5 (or 6 for Krosus) minutes as these times more accurately represent the common dps check fights in the game.
With a longer sim time the dps steadily declines as the of one-time buffs like heroism and potions have lower uptime.

[elvor0]

How are people simming over 700k honestly. Is the cloak/belt (which I don't have) really causing people to sim that high? I'm at 904 ilvl equipped and only simming 640k(ish), but stuck with neck and trinket as my leggys.

Pretty much Belt and Cloak is op. You've got an extra 10% damage for 35s during crusade and the cloak causes your main damage dealer to be doing 15% more damage at all times pretty much. It all stacks up rather ridiculously.

[Deleted]

How are people simming over 700k honestly. Is the cloak/belt (which I don't have) really causing people to sim that high? I'm at 904 ilvl equipped and only simming 640k(ish), but stuck with neck and trinket as my leggys.

As someone stuck in the same boat vs a paladin who has said items. Yes. It does. We're really screwed until they drop.

[Bonkura]

How are people simming over 700k honestly. Is the cloak/belt (which I don't have) really causing people to sim that high? I'm at 904 ilvl equipped and only simming 640k(ish), but stuck with neck and trinket as my leggys.

With ~900 equipped, cloak+belt and 54 traits you'll be close to 700k.

[killwithpwr]

From my understanding this isn't surprising. Draught is awful for a Paladin as the cooldown conflicts with crusade, so you're missing out on that crusade dmg if you are using the trinket on cooldown. Even with the decrease in haste it's going to be better for you to equip urn. if I'm reading what you're saying above correctly then I would suggest you use CoF/Urn over draught.

To answer your exact question about stat priorities I understand that after 31% haste it becomes significantly less valuable. So you're wasting stats at 32%. Anywhere between 22% - 30% is completely acceptable, assuming all the rest of your stats is not going into mastery.

713, especially single target is not bad DPS so if you're pulling that you're doing okay. If you're not hitting that mark and wondering as to why then your armory is only going to say so much, need to look at logs.

Thank you!
Theyne

CoF paired with DoS is a mighty force to be reckoned with.
Even if you dont get the best rng on CoF Procs, you delay Dos only about 10-15 seconds.

with a CoF 890 and DoS 900 i sim and perform better than putting in my Claw 890/ Any other trinket that has dropped below 900.

still havent got FCM, but with CoF, its not that powerfull anymore than DoS.

+ timing is everything, i try to time my Dos for downtime on cloak + having hammers up which passively gives it an advantage over just using it on CD.

1. Item level.
The amount of stats on gear increases exponentially with ilvl, therefore going from 900 to 910 has much higher impact in absolute numbers than going from 850 to 860 for example. Your ilvl is decent, but you are still a bit behind the 910+ crowd.

I am 902 equipped, with 910 Cashbringer, only 2 Crusade relics - simming at 745k for 10 min fight.

Cloak and Chain are op, done deal.

To OP - first of all, you got way to much haste. youre not a tank, get more crit.
Second, hope you get lucky on leggos because having the Chain is what makes us burst for so much more (as well ofcourse as Relics)
and Thirdly my Trinkets of choice are CoF and DoS on ST and CoF + Claw on cleave/AoE.

But mostly, Pray to Ion "RNGesus" Hazzikostas that you get a chain soon before it gets nerfed to the ground.

[Meiffert]

I am 902 equipped, with 910 Cashbringer, only 2 Crusade relics - simming at 745k for 10 min fight.

That's honestly pretty amazing, are you sure you are simming 1 target?

I can't check it now, but I *think* my character sims quite a bit lower, which doesn't make too much sense.

(I was mostly checking the relative dps of different gear setups and stat weights, so I wasn't paying too much attention to the absolute numbers, but I think it was in the 720s range on 5 minute fights.)

[killwithpwr]

That's honestly pretty amazing, are you sure you are simming 1 target?

I can't check it now, but I *think* my character sims quite a bit lower, which doesn't make too much sense.

(I was mostly checking the relative dps of different gear setups and stat weights, so I wasn't paying too much attention to the absolute numbers, but I think it was in the 720s range on 5 minute fights.)

you made me check and i was wrong... i was simming on a 5 min fight, not 10.... 10 makes it 706k

you are welcome to sim it yourself if you'd like...

http://imgur.com/4Ops1o3

cheers

[Nition]

That's honestly pretty amazing, are you sure you are simming 1 target?

I can't check it now, but I *think* my character sims quite a bit lower, which doesn't make too much sense.

(I was mostly checking the relative dps of different gear setups and stat weights, so I wasn't paying too much attention to the absolute numbers, but I think it was in the 720s range on 5 minute fights.)

That'll probably be because your stats are all over the place. Crit and vers pretty low, mastery way too high.

[Meiffert]

That'll probably be because your stats are all over the place. Crit and vers pretty low, mastery way too high.

When I ran the sims, my stats were something like 23 % haste, 22 % crit, 12 % vers, mastery a bit lower than now, which gave me reasonably balanced stat weights (crit = vers = 1, haste = mastery = 0.9).

I have since swapped out a crit/vers ring for the Gul'dan one which has 1.7k mastery, I will have a look whether it's worth it, but the difference is gonna be minimal either way.

[killwithpwr]

Claw is 890 and DoS is 900

Chain + Cloak.

got no idea why people keep saying DoS i terrible for ret

[OrcsRLame]

Claw is 890 and DoS is 900

Chain + Cloak.

got no idea why people keep saying DoS i terrible for ret

Sim equal ilvl FCM in place of DoS. Unless I'm quite mistaken, FCM should win.

DoS is also bad on AoE. For a mix of good ST and AoE, you want a high ilvl Chains of the Valorous with vers. For burst AoE HoV wins out.

[Grusalugg]

Claw is 890 and DoS is 900

Chain + Cloak.

got no idea why people keep saying DoS i terrible for ret

Do you always delay your DoS and use it on 15x crusade?