Comey: Trump Campaign officially under investigation by the FBI

[Orbitus]

The surveillance on former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn that was leaked to the press.

Flynn wasn't tapped, he was communicating with someone that was.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, based on the responses I got, this is still a right-wing forum.

You morons are still defending the Democratic Party as if it's some angelic alternative to Trump, when in reality they are a right-wing political organization.

But yes, keep thinking your precious Democrats are the answer.

Compared to Trump? Yeah, Democrats are better.

[mvaliz]

I'm just curious why Comey went public with it? Usually they don't go public with investigations unless they know they can get something out of it (intimidate a person to make a mistake now that they know they're being looked into, ect).

I also wonder if they were able to go public because they already have enough evidence to be confident in finding out something more.

[Breccia]

I'm just curious why Comey went public with it?

Probably because Trump demanded it.

Trump saw something on Breitbart and immediately accused Obama of wiretapping him. He then demanded a Congressional investigation. Then, a bunch of GOP members started to say "well, I guess we should look into this, it's a serious accusation even if it has neither merit nor evidence", but they didn't ask for it FIRST. Trump did. And he wouldn't shut up about it.

There are two ways this could have been handled. One is with a no comment situation, refusing to confirm or deny. The other, was to make it publicly clear that what Trump accused Obama of did not happen, and could not properly happen, either, and to make that clear to the House, Senate, and American people. Since the lack of any form of wiretapping -- or anything remotely related, as the WH's backpedaling would later go -- is not a matter of national security or classified, and because such a thin (by repeated insistence) can't happen anyhow, there was no reason to go with the first.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Compared to Trump? Yeah, Democrats are better.

It's weird, the Bernie Bros sometimes seem even more fanatical than the Trumpkins. Why must such a good man have such a crazy cult following?

- - - Updated - - -

Probably because Trump demanded it.

Trump saw something on Breitbart and immediately accused Obama of wiretapping him. He then demanded a Congressional investigation. Then, a bunch of GOP members started to say "well, I guess we should look into this, it's a serious accusation even if it has neither merit nor evidence", but they didn't ask for it FIRST. Trump did. And he wouldn't shut up about it.

There are two ways this could have been handled. One is with a no comment situation, refusing to confirm or deny. The other, was to make it publicly clear that what Trump accused Obama of did not happen, and could not properly happen, either, and to make that clear to the House, Senate, and American people. Since the lack of any form of wiretapping -- or anything remotely related, as the WH's backpedaling would later go -- is not a matter of national security or classified, and because such a thin (by repeated insistence) can't happen anyhow, there was no reason to go with the first.

Be careful what you wish for.

It's pretty funny though, Trump started whining about wire tapping to get the conversation off of talking about his ties to Russia...

So yeah, be careful what you wish for.

[mvaliz]

It's weird, the Bernie Bros sometimes seem even more fanatical than the Trumpkins. Why must such a good man have such a crazy cult following?

They're not more fanatical than the StormTrumpers... The moment Bernie supporters start strapping on combat armor and prepping their AR-15s if their chosen candidate wins - then you will be correct!

They (the Trumpsters) were doing this in preparation for what most thought was his unlikely win in the election, and they will do so again the moment he's impeached or voted out and he starts shouting "RIGGED!"

[Merkava]

You'd think that, but Trump saw something on Breitbart and started tweeting and throwing accusations and demanded, DEMANDED, a Congressional investigation. And now the whole WH is backing his play. So now, you get this.

Thats really it. It shows how just how pathological he is. I mean, his conspiratorial ravings about Obama's birth certificate at least had some element of being self serving, but how could he not see that this cascade of continual lying could do anything but backfire on him? And his supporters keep talking about him playing 4D Space Chess...The guy's an imbecile, a buffoon, a child, and we made him the most powerful man in the world.

- - - Updated - - -

It's pretty funny though, Trump started whining about wire tapping to get the conversation off of talking about his ties to Russia...

So yeah, be careful what you wish for.

I thought that he started the wire tapping shit to distract from Sessions rescuing himself. But, yea, who knows what goes through his head.

- - - Updated - - -

This is why the White House is starting to downplay Manafort's role in the 2016 campaign (which is a joke, if we recall the power struggle between him and Lewindowski, and the fact that he was the pre-Bannon/Conway campaign manager). Because if indictments for Manafort, Carter Page, Roger Stone, and Michael Flynn roll in, the President will be chained down for the duration of their trials - years - by "what did he know and when did he know it", and the even greater risk of a deal cut between them and the DoJ for information on what Trump knew. Even the RISK of that is politically weaponizable.

Trump supporters being so binary in their thinking is quaint. Demolishing Trump is a 4D chess game.

He can protect them, though, right? I mean, at huge political cost to himself, but couldn't he pardon everyone who could possibly be indicted? Wouldn't it effectively kill, or at least derail the investigation? I could actually see his supporters buying that too.

[Shadowmelded]

He can protect them, though, right? I mean, at huge political cost to himself, but couldn't he pardon everyone who could possibly be indicted? Wouldn't it effectively kill, or at least derail the investigation? I could actually see his supporters buying that too.

Can't they be compelled to testify if they're pardoned?

[Merkava]

Can't they be compelled to testify if they're pardoned?

IDK. Ask @Matchles if you see him. I would think you still might. They cant force you to testify if you're a defendant (which they wouldn't be in this case) or if what you'd be testifying to would be self incriminating (which may or may not apply if they'd previously received a pardon). Lol, I guess that's the long way of saying I have no idea, sry.

[derpkitteh]

watching these confirmation things, and now this comey thing... i could not be on the bored asking questions.

i get the "i can't comment on that" too much an i'd come down out of there and smack a motherfucker right across the lips. ain't got any tolerance for that bullshit.

[melodramocracy]

watching these confirmation things, and now this comey thing... i could not be on the bored asking questions.

i get the "i can't comment on that" too much an i'd come down out of there and smack a motherfucker right across the lips. ain't got any tolerance for that bullshit.

There's very good reasons why he isn't giving out that particular information at this moment.

[derpkitteh]

There's very good reasons why he isn't giving out that particular information at this moment.

oh yeah, i know that. like, in the comey situation, i get it. but with like gorsuch today, and others during the whole process, that smug bullshit wouldn't fly.

you're there to answers my questions, you're gonna answer them.

[Halicia]

He can protect them, though, right? I mean, at huge political cost to himself, but couldn't he pardon everyone who could possibly be indicted? Wouldn't it effectively kill, or at least derail the investigation? I could actually see his supporters buying that too.

A pardon would protect *them*, but would facilitate the investigation as they would no longer be able to plead the fifth and would have to answer any questions about crimes they may have committed and Trump's involvement or knowledge of. (granted, my knowledge of the law is pretty limited, and especially if they cite national security concerns, "taking the 5th" may not be an option anyways).

As Obama stated in regards to Clinton, a pardon also recognizes that there is guilt/wrongdoing... which is pretty much the bullet Trump needs to avoid in the first place.

[Shadowmelded]

IDK. Ask @Matchles if you see him. I would think you still might. They cant force you to testify if you're a defendant (which they wouldn't be in this case) or if what you'd be testifying to would be self incriminating (which may or may not apply if they'd previously received a pardon). Lol, I guess that's the long way of saying I have no idea, sry.

I remembered, turns out you can. Trump pardoning his cronies only to have it backfire on him would be pretty funny.

[Merkava]

A pardon would protect *them*, but would facilitate the investigation as they would no longer be able to plead the fifth and would have to answer any questions about crimes they may have committed and Trump's involvement or knowledge of. (granted, my knowledge of the law is pretty limited, and especially if they cite national security concerns, "taking the 5th" may not be an option anyways).

As Obama stated in regards to Clinton, a pardon also recognizes that there is guilt/wrongdoing... which is pretty much the bullet Trump needs to avoid in the first place.

I remembered, turns out you can. Trump pardoning his cronies only to have it backfire on him would be pretty funny.

Yea, I said there would be huge political costs. But if pardons are being issued, then the goal would be avoiding jail. We're talking about criminal proceedings, right? If everyone's pardoned, who exactly would they be testifying against?

[Halicia]

Yea, I said there would be huge political costs. But if pardons are being issued, then the goal would be avoiding jail. We're talking about criminal proceedings, right? If everyone's pardoned, who exactly would they be testifying against?

Trump. He can't pardon himself.

[Merkava]

Trump. He can't pardon himself.

Are we sure that he can't? He would certainly try it.

[Breccia]

Trump pardoning his cronies only to have it backfire on him would be pretty funny.

If it was proven that Trump's team intentionally cooperated with Russia to interfere with the election in exchange for goods and services, and if Trump pardoned them for that, he'd be dead in the fucking water. The GOP is willing to tolerate his behavior because they still have things they want signed, but they also have 2018 to think about, and they could not survive that. They'd have to turn on him in the most definitive way possible to salvage their careers.

[Shadowmelded]

Yea, I said there would be huge political costs. But if pardons are being issued, then the goal would be avoiding jail. We're talking about criminal proceedings, right? If everyone's pardoned, who exactly would they be testifying against?

Doesn't need to go as far as criminal proceedings afaik. Convene Grand Jury for the investigation, compel testimony, 5th wouldn't apply due to pardon.

If it was proven that Trump's team intentionally cooperated with Russia to interfere with the election in exchange for goods and services, and if Trump pardoned them for that, he'd be dead in the fucking water. The GOP is willing to tolerate his behavior because they still have things they want signed, but they also have 2018 to think about, and they could not survive that. They'd have to turn on him in the most definitive way possible to salvage their careers.

Oh yeah if it was proven for sure. I was picturing a blanket pardon prior to anything being proven though. Still looks bad but he could double down on "FBI/Obama are Nazis/out to get me".

[Breccia]

I was picturing a blanket pardon prior to anything being proven though.

That would be arguably an even worse move. That's blatant admission of guilt. There is a zero percent chance that happens.

[Merkava]

Doesn't need to go as far as criminal proceedings afaik. Convene Grand Jury for the investigation, compel testimony, 5th wouldn't apply due to pardon.

If everyone's been pardoned then who's being indicted?