Mafia #81 - Game Thread - Mario Kart Madness

[Graeham]

Danner needs to get back to me sooner rather than later so we can work out exactly what happened last night. I initially thought he was accusing me of killing Reticence, which I did not do. Instead he accused me of using a PoW box for sinister reasons and then lying about it - but the biggest flaw in that reasoning is that I have actively aided people in bumping up their post counts and encouraged them to hold onto the 'shell' items to shield themselves from attacks.

I also want to draw attention to the fact that shortly before the day ended I had a PoW box stolen from me - so someone used the theft item on me and then may have used some sort of 'frame' ability at night. Given my own role I would not be terribly surprised if that is the case, because I'm pretty sure scum have some interesting roles to fall back on and cause enough chaos to balance out my role.

As I said earlier, I will claim if need be. I don't think I've been terribly cryptic, I've laid it on pretty thick today that I'm not only a TPR but I feel like there is much more to this game than some players believe despite the encouragement of opportunistic play regardless of alignment.

[Danner]

Interesting. I did have one in my inventory yesterday towards the end of the day but I then received a message telling me that it had been stolen. Almost immediately after the day ended, in fact. So, no - I didn't use anything last night and my role's ability is locked until a certain something happens. I can clue you in on that, if you want me to.

Well, I guess I need to claim then.

I am an item watcher.
It's a role that gets told which items are used at night, and who these items hit, but not who used them.
I also a list of items gained at day, at the end of that day. That part is not important right now.

N1: Banana Peel hit Bombercloner
N1: Boo hit Marack
N2: PoW block hits Bombercloner, Crackleslap, Crissi, Danner, Dupti, Marack, Monkz, Reticence, Virothe, and Xanjori.

Whomever used that N1 banana peel is super scummy. But I have no idea who did that unfortunately.

@Graeham
As you can see, the N2 PoW leaves very little doubt on who used it. I believe I caught you in a lie here.
On the upside, it means I am also 99.9% certain you did not murder anyone last night, as you were busy PoW'ing.
And as I already stated, it means the PoW cannot have been a serious murder attempt.

@Marack:
The N1 PoW block was actually used on D1, just before dusk. That left a post trail that netted us Catta.
Your info about not getting anything gives me a theory that the Boo was a scum item, used to get a last-ditch item to murder Bombercloner with.
And I confirm you were indeed hit by a Boo on N1, but I have no idea who did it. And if my theory of a scum Boo item holds, you're town.

[dupti]

The boo was not a scum item Danner. I used it on Marack because my theory was that scum attempted to get Bomber modkilled, which means they most likely wouldn't have an item on them. Marack had a lot of posts and hadn't used an item for a while + I found him suspicious, so he was the obvios choice. Obviously I'm well aware that items is RNG, but I think still it was a good idea. If I had gotten an item (especially a post reducing one) I would pretty much have been able to clear Marack.

[Danner]

The boo was not a scum item Danner. I used it on Marack because my theory was that scum attempted to get Bomber modkilled, which means they most likely wouldn't have an item on them. Marack had a lot of posts and hadn't used an item for a while + I found him suspicious, so he was the obvios choice. Obviously I'm well aware that items is RNG, but I think still it was a good idea. If I had gotten an item (especially a post reducing one) I would pretty much have been able to clear Marack.

That is actually a very valid read, and explains to me why you are so hung up on Marack.
Interesting how we ended up with two very different conclusions based on night results though!

[Graeham]

I should claim as well, then. Especially with how much of a headache last night appears to have been. I'm the deputy cop - if I'm still alive once the primary cop is lynched or murdered then I receive a list of the players that they investigated as well as a list of the results that were obtained. I do not, however, get told which result fits each player.

[dupti]

Actually you went full edge first, all you've done is bitch and lead the way for the "This game sucks" movement but you forget a key factor. We had a signup thread that stated what this game was going to be about. If you didn't read it it's not the mods fault, and it's not my fault if you're to busy being an over-righteous prick and and throwing digs at the set up every chance you get to be bothered to actually do anything.

What, no. I'm not bitching at the game at all, I think you misunderstand my point but alright, I'll explain.

I've already admitted several times that I didn't read the OP carefully enough (since I've misunderstood several things), but the impression I got from the sign up thread was that the items were supposed to be a town tool as in they could be used to apply pressure (by forcing players to respond) or to get rid of inactive players, like the mod leaving it up to the players to modkill inactive players which I actually think is a pretty interesting idea. At that time I thought you could either use it in the game thread if you wanted to use the item in the dayphase, or in the QT if you wanted to use it for the next day (didn't realise post count mattered in the nightphase).

Then when I opened the thread I got the impression people were just spamming items, which was why I voiced my concern about it day 1 because I thought that this would most likely lead to a game full of fluff with no content, which is pretty bad for town. I also said that town probably shouldn't use post reducing items near the deadline since if we get spammed with items it could easily result in someone getting modkilled.
I then later learned when talking with Danner that it could be used in your QT and this honestly changed pretty much everything, because what this means is that now scum can now make plays with it. So it is no longer as simple as a tool for town to use as I initially thought, which was why I decided I wouldn't use post reducing items because on players with a low post count or near the deadline (because it would make it acceptable to do, which I think is way too risky).

So basically what I think is that this mechanic is more so for scum than it is for town.

You're trying to call me anti town for not wanting to use it for town, but I disagree. I think this is mainly a tool for scum and I can certainly understand why scum would want to use it.
In theory yes we could potentially get two lynches off, but it is going to be very difficult since it is going to rely on item drops (and the targeted player not posting too much). You suggest we could use it as pressure by keeping someone at a low post count (which I initially thought was the purpose of it), but that is way too risky because what if that player is town? I just do not agree with keeping players at a low post count because that means that scum might just hammer them. So I think your approach is way more anti town than mine, but in reality the main difference is just that my play is safer. Your way could work out but I think it is way too risky.

So I'm not really "bitching" about the game, the only thing I found silly was the fact that you can get modkilled during the night. I'm not a fan of that, but does that really matter? I really like the idea behind Kryllian's mechanic, but I do not think it is in towns best interest to use it which is why I am avoiding it.

I honestly hope you have a game coming up soon because I will make sure to sign up and do nothing but bitch about how shitty it is and do everything in my power to make sure it's fucked up.

I do not, but if you wish to know you'd probably consider my games rather boring as I tend to go for vanilla like games.

Because it's a better option than anything else I've seen put forward in this bullshit today.

You think I am a better target when Danner is basically claiming to have a guilty check on Graeham? Yes I realised he first claimed now, but was obvious he had some sort of a check before that I'd say.

So let's just talk about you for a moment Virothe.

You've haven't really attempted to do anything this game now. You chose to ignore Crackle when he asked about your reads, which is why I asked you again but then you decided to go for one of your weird ass rants and basically refused to give reads. Since you called me out for being anti town, what would you call that? Sure don't answer me, I don't care but then answer Crackle instead.
I think that all you're doing at the moment is hiding behind this "omg your hating on the game" and using it an excuse to not contribute to the game. Some people might find your rants town, but I certainly don't. You still haven't done anything this game but put out a useless vote. Let's be honest, I am never going to get lynched today.
I'd just like to see you do something useful Virothe. Ignore me if you would prefer, but don't use it as an excuse not to do anything meaningful.

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That is actually a very valid read, and explains to me why you are so hung up on Marack.
Interesting how we ended up with two very different conclusions based on night results though!

Yeah agreed.

But I'm not sure it's something I want to pursue, at least not for now, since I really liked his reaction today.

[Marack]

The boo was not a scum item Danner. I used it on Marack because my theory was that scum attempted to get Bomber modkilled, which means they most likely wouldn't have an item on them. Marack had a lot of posts and hadn't used an item for a while + I found him suspicious

I went into the N1 without an item. I could have held it for a shield like I did last night.

[dupti]

I should claim as well, then. Especially with how much of a headache last night appears to have been. I'm the deputy cop - if I'm still alive once the primary cop is lynched or murdered then I receive a list of the players that they investigated as well as a list of the results that were obtained. I do not, however, get told which result fits each player.

Oh boy. Deputy cop is actually a decent fake claim now that I think about it (not saying your necessarily fake), I guess the only reason we don't see people fake claim them more is because we rarely ever see the role in game.

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I went into the N1 without an item.

Yes that is the point. The fact that you went into the night without an item means there was adecent chance you used one near the end of the deadline to get him modkilled, since I expected you to have one with that many posts. (I realise it's rng)

[Marack]

Yes that is the point. The fact that you went into the night without an item means there was adecent chance you used one near the end of the deadline to get him modkilled, since I expected you to have one with that many posts. (I realise it's rng)

I used one at you, green shell, from my QT sometime during D1.

[dupti]

I used one at you, green shell, from my QT sometime during D1.

Yeah but I didn't know that at the time.

[Marack]

If I remember, that was near-ish the end of the day (10-12hours)

[dupti]

If I remember, that was near-ish the end of the day (10-12hours)

Yes I can confirm that I was hit by a shell but there was no way for me to know that it was you who used it at the time.

[Marack]

I should claim as well, then. Especially with how much of a headache last night appears to have been. I'm the deputy cop - if I'm still alive once the primary cop is lynched or murdered then I receive a list of the players that they investigated as well as a list of the results that were obtained. I do not, however, get told which result fits each player.

Oh boy. Deputy cop is actually a decent fake claim now that I think about it (not saying your necessarily fake), I guess the only reason we don't see people fake claim them more is because we rarely ever see the role in game.

Real or fake... At least we have a cop around (hopefully). It would be an interesting play if it does pan out to be fake.

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Yes I can confirm that I was hit by a shell but there was no way for me to know that it was you who used it at the time.

I know. But at least you know now. At it was somewhat retaliatory from our interaction. I was mildly pissed.

[Graeham]

I'll be here for another half an hour or so and then I'll be away until later this evening. I'm going to cast a vote and hopefully apply some additional pressure to Xanjori and lure him out of hiding to contribute more. Not entirely sure what to make of Virothe's aggression, but I remember him chewing me out ages ago whilst we were both town so I don't want to consider it alignment indicative. For now, anyway.

Vote: Xanjori

[dupti]

As for the claim I'm actually not sure what to do. The mechanical correct play is to lynch Graeham or Danner. I'm definitely not going to lynch Danner and I believe his claim.

I think it all comes down to whether I believe scum has the power to 'frame' Graeham somehow and I'm not sure I do. On the other hand Graeham's role is kind of consistent with his play. I can certainly understand wanting to lay low as the backup cop.

[Graeham]

As for the claim I'm actually not sure what to do. The mechanical correct play is to lynch Graeham or Danner. I'm definitely not going to lynch Danner and I believe his claim.

I think it all comes down to whether I believe scum has the power to 'frame' Graeham somehow and I'm not sure I do. On the other hand Graeham's role is kind of consistent with his play. I can certainly understand wanting to lay low as the backup cop.

I don't believe that Danner is lying about his role and whilst I appreciate that it's a hard sell to convince someone that I happened to be framed somehow I'd simply urge you - and others - to look back through my posts urging people to post as much as possible and hold onto their 'shell' items to reduce the damage of any attack items. Getting people eliminated through the item system is not something I want to do or pursue.

Ultimately the game was created with the item/post system as an important mechanic and the quirkiness of Ret's role makes it likely that there's other weird item/post related roles in play. I'm fairly certain scum have at least one role related to it.

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On an unrelated note, I'm just about to try my luck at securing tickets for an event I really, really want to go to. I hope they don't sell out immediately, especially since I didn't sleep at all last night and stayed up to try and get a pair.

[dupti]

Honestly if you're scum Graeham that's a really good fake claim.

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But both mafias so far have just been goons. Do we really have a back up cop? Meh, I'll get back to this later

[Crackleslap]

We already know theres a cop due to sk's role card. Otherwise thats some next level bastardry. A deupty cop? Im not sure. Having 2 cops in a game of 15 seems a little steep. Even if one is a fail safe. Considering the only town weve seen so far are VT's or something based on item mechanics. Makes me a little more skeptical. We dont know what the real cops role fully entails, but it could be interesting. (Dont claim obviously)
@Monkz flirting with a power role claim. It annoys me. I mean you either gonna fight your pressure ornclaim. Flirting with a claim is just not good. "Hey guys im this, dont lynch me" without avtually saying, in conjuction with doing nothing in the game. Doesnt exavtly give me a town read.

[Danner]

Graeham's claim is pretty good, I must give him that. His play has also been consistent with that claim, as far as I can tell. But after game 79 (or was that 78?), I can't hold this past Graeham to cook up. And also, fakeclaims may be a thing. A deputy cop is a hell of a nasty/good fake claim though.

Nonetheless, my results say Graeham used the PoW. That's not scum indicative since nobody else used items last night, and this cannot possiby be considered a murder attempt as a result.
But lying about it is. Had Graeham fessed up, I would have left it at that.

That said - the one objection worth noting here is whether the scum have the ability to fake item usages. It is worth considering. I'm just not sure if my role is important enough for scum to have a direct counter to it. When I got this role, my first thought was that this was cute but not very relevant in catching scum. Since then I have gotten a little bit more respect for the role. So maaaybe?

--

So, I have one more way we can puzzle this out. But I need to verify something first...
@dupti; I believe you picked up the star you used today on D2. Can you confirm this is the case?

[dupti]

@dupti; I believe you picked up the star you used today on D2. Can you confirm this is the case?

What star?

Actually doesn't really matter, because the last item I picked up d2 was the shell that Bomber removed by throwing a banana at me. (I didn't post after I lost the shell, so I never even got the chance to get a new item).