Why doesn't Illidan get back at Malfurion now (assuming he hasn't)

[Dhrizzle]

Old joke from Vanilla where shamans were Jesus because they can ankh.

Because he's a Messianic figure and Jesus automatically trumps Moses when it comes to crude naming conventions.

Because Jesus walked on water like Shamans can, as well as can Ankh/Resurrect which Jesus did.

Yeah but come on - cast into a river by his parents, raised by the enemies of his people, received messages from otherworldly spirits, freed his people and took them across the sea to a land of their own...

[Wildmoon]

You assume that Illidan can get back at Malfurion even if he wants to. Also what justification he has to get back at his brother? Illidan deserved what he got. I mean Malfurion was the one who should be angry at Illidan not the other way around.

It felt pretty shitty when you went through a lot of trouble to steal a disk from the most powerful dragon in the world just to get it taken from you by your enemy who was led to your location by your own twin brother.

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What did Malfie do during all this Legion threat exactly? He is powerful enough to battle Queen Azshara herself, and yet he doesn't do much against the legion, maybe nothing at all.

A lot of powerful characters don't get much screentime. Malfurion is not an exception. Medivh,Dragon aspects,Khadgar,Velen and more all had their moment of inaction. Medivh still hasn't done anything since WC3 and will likely not do anything in the future.

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Even though I heavily dislike Xera and all her Illidan-fangirling, even though Illidan did a lot of shitty things, his motives were rather far from selfish. All he did, he did pretty much to stop the Legion. Knowing his people will hate him, because he went about it in a rather questionable way. How is it selfish, to sacrifice yourself, cut yourself off from everyone you ever loved, to basically save the world?

Illidan's motives were selfish. He did not sacrifice himself at any point up until the event at the Black temple. You know that he went to the legion first and foremost because he was salty at Malfurion and wanted to gain power surpassing Malfurion's right? It was ridiculously petty of him to try pretty hard to prove such a childish point like being stronger than his brother.

Illidan was not pure evil but he was driven mostly by personal desires.

[Dalheim]

I never understood why Malfurion tought imprisoning his brother for eternity & making him unable to die was "more merciful" than killing him like other wanted at first. Illidan should hate his guts not make up with him.

If you read ''War of the Ancients'', Malfurion states during his sentence that he is too important to kill since he knows alot of secrets about the Burning Legion and that the Legion will very likely return.

[Katchii]

Old joke from Vanilla where shamans were Jesus because they can ankh.

And walk on water...lol

[Arrashi]

Honestly all illidan needs to do is bang tyrande so hard she will moan his name every time malfy wants to have some fun with her. Best revenge possible.

[Evangeliste]

Being imprisoned in a 2 by 2 cell with enchancments where you can't even kill yourself for eternety is far worse than death IMO. Illidan wasn't meant to leave that cell and Malfurion knew that and even opposed Tyrande when she wanted to realease him.

Yes, but Illidan knew a lot too. It could also sentiment, which why I was saying. If Illidan was that annoyed by it than he would have done something instead offered peace first. Not everyone goes straight for vengeance and just because he has a soul of a demon doesn't automatically make it so.

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Honestly all illidan needs to do is bang tyrande so hard she will moan his name every time malfy wants to have some fun with her. Best revenge possible.

That would probably be the best revenge albeit rapey.

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Yeah but come on - cast into a river by his parents, raised by the enemies of his people, received messages from otherworldly spirits, freed his people and took them across the sea to a land of their own...

It's a joke.

[rayvio]

Illidan is probably the most inconsistently written character in the entire Warcraft lore, dramatically changing personality between Warcraft 3 and the Frozen Throne expansion (as well as carrying the idiot ball throughout most of Frozen Throne) and then being a typical insane villain in Burning Crusade (with a tiny snippet of dialogue that the majority of players likely never even saw to 'explain' it) and now he's forcefully being very awkwardly retconned back into the well intentioned extremist... so it's probably best not to try to apply logic to his situation at all (Blizzard clearly don't)

maybe, if we're lucky, this will all be cleared up and we'll look back on his storyline and say to ourselves "huh, that actually all makes sense now". I hope so, but I don't expect to

[Arrashi]

Malfurion is a shapeshifter. I am sure he can bang his wife harder than illidan ever could Stag form!

Naive child. Its all about technique, not a brute force. In the end, the worst thing is when you realise YOU (and your internet connection) were unable to handle the wang all that time.

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That would probably be the best revenge albeit rapey.

Its not rape if her pupils are heart shaped.

[ravenmoon]

Because blizzard suck at exploring after effects - as a few users earlier in the beta had stated, Illidans returna nd knoweldge of the Burning legion revealed should make the night elves finally realize that Illidan had NEVER been a traitor, and that he had been spot on about both the Well and the Legion's true intention.

It should make for a touching reunion - and also an inspiriation too, not all nigh telves ofc, certainly not hte priest, but many night elves, especially males shoudl have a bit more fire in their belly and rage to destroy the legion or at least act far more aggressively and powerfully with regards ot it.

it's really significan,tying into the revelation of the highborne society of Suramar with thier new nightborne name tag, cure for arcane addiction and imbalance that wen all the way back to before the sundering. A unity of all the night elven veins whether demon hunter illidari, druid, highborne groups (shen'dralar, Farondis and shal'dorei), Wardens and Preistesses all for the first time since the sundering find themselves united. Arcane night elves with druidc ones, priestly ones, and fel wielding ones - on the same page. it is momentous for the night elves - and a darn shame we don't get to see more.

Illidan is back in his home city after 10k years.. he's not going to live in darnassus or anywhere near the alliance kaldorei, even if they forgive him, Suramar is the home, the city the legion destroyed (he thought) that has fuelled his fight against them. And we see no catch up with Thalyssra or Illidan's comments on the place. I know he is focused and everything on the task, but some comment would be nice, and appropriate. He hung around in mage circles, highborne circles, he is very likely to meet old friends, teachers, subordinates too in the duskwatch as the duskwatch really are formed from those of hte moonguard who were in the city.

But nothing. And off course, meeting malfurion again - Mal finding out Illidan was right !!

[Qualia]

It should make for a touching reunion - and also an inspiriation too, not all nigh telves ofc, certainly not hte priest, but many night elves, especially males shoudl have a bit more fire in their belly and rage to destroy the legion or at least act far more aggressively and powerfully with regards ot it.

But nothing. And off course, meeting malfurion again - Mal finding out Illidan was right !!

It wouldn't, really. It'd be a very awkward moment - the NE / Malfurion found out that they were wrong, but openly admitting it would be the same as admitting that they fucked up many people for more than 10 thousand years (not just Illidan, but other arcane magic users as well). As of Illidan himself, he no longer care about the Night Elves anymore, if not outright hate them. At best, we get no reaction and both of them would just work together like what we are going to have. At worst, Illidan is so going to have a field day shoving the fact that he was right in his brother (and the NE)'s face.

[Wildmoon]

It wouldn't, really. It'd be a very awkward moment - the NE / Malfurion found out that they were wrong, but openly admitting it would be the same as admitting that they fucked up many people for more than 10 thousand years (not just Illidan, but other arcane magic users as well). As of Illidan himself, he no longer care about the Night Elves anymore, if not outright hate them. At best, we get no reaction and both of them would just work together like what we are going to have. At worst, Illidan is so going to have a field day shoving the fact that he was right in his brother (and the NE)'s face.

Malfurion never thought that Illidan's view that the legion would return was wrong. The magic addiction was real. Malfurion was never wrong about that. The Well made them so dependent on it. That's just fact. One could argue about whether it's right or wrong to give up on arcane magic but the fact is that it's a choice of life style.

You are talking like the Night Elves did wrong on Illidan and should apologize for it when in fact it's the other way around. Don't forget that Illidan let the Demon Soul slip into the legion's hands which risked the destruction of Azeroth. As for the highborne, the majority of your people collectively decided to ban the use of arcane magic. You instead of being patient and try to convince your people over the course of time in civil manner decide to do a terrorist's tactic like unleashing a magical storm on Ashenvale. The decision to exile them was really for the best. They were free to start their new lives anywhere their own ways.

[Dagoth Ur]

If you read ''War of the Ancients'', Malfurion states during his sentence that he is too important to kill since he knows alot of secrets about the Burning Legion and that the Legion will very likely return.

I don't know still it doesn't make Malfurion merciful or good brother IMO. Hey let's keep my brother in suspended animation for 10k years because someday he'll be useful. What A good guy I am, my brother lives like a plant but at least I didn't dirty my conciousness by killing him.

[Wildmoon]

I don't know still it doesn't make Malfurion merciful or good brother IMO. Hey let's keep my brother in suspended animation for 10k years because someday he'll be useful. What A good guy I am, my brother lives like a plant but at least I didn't dirty my conciousness by killing him.

Killing your twin brother is not an easy thing to do. There was hope that Illidan would redeem himself. Those night elves he killed had no chance "fulfill their destiny" anymore.

[Dagoth Ur]

Killing your twin brother is not an easy thing to do. There was hope that Illidan would redeem himself. Those night elves he killed had no chance "fulfill their destiny" anymore.

Yeah but Illidan didn't get timed sentence. For example 5k years of prison and then we'll see if he can try to understand what he did wrong and can reedem himself. He was supposed to be there forever, only interacted with when Legion returns if Legion returns. That's far worse fate than death IMO and Malfurion not killing him isn't act of mercy but act of making himself not feel guilty over killing his brother.

IMO Malfurion is very self righteous character and as much as he likes to bad mouth Illidan, he has the same hero complex Illidan has. Only difference is his methods are more calculated & less destructive so he doesn't come off as crazy as Illidan does.

[Wildmoon]

How can you redeem yourself if you are not allowed to do anything? I don't follow

Malfurion went to visit Illidan many times to talk to him. Do you really think he would let Illidan just rot in there literally forever? Malfurion would likely speak up to his people about giving Illidan a second chance had the talkings he did with Illidan in the prison went well. As you expected, the talkings went badly. Malfurion tried to change Illidan into someone he was not and Illidan being Illidan was even more bitter that he had to be at the mercy of ,in his mind, his arch rival.

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IMO Malfurion is very self righteous character and as much as he likes to bad mouth Illidan, he has the same hero complex Illidan has. Only difference is his methods are more calculated & less destructive so he doesn't come off as crazy as Illidan does.

Self righteous yes but he has never shown any hint hero complex so far. Malfurion was designed to be a very selfless and dutiful character.

[Dagoth Ur]

Malfurion went to visit Illidan many times to talk to him. Do you really think he would let Illidan just rot in there literally forever? Malfurion would likely speak up to his people about giving Illidan a second chance had the talkings he did with Illidan in the prison went well. As you expected, the talkings went badly. Malfurion tried to change Illidan into someone he was not and Illidan being Illidan was even more bitter that he had to be at the mercy of ,in his mind, his arch rival.

When Burning Legion returned, for which he claimed they need Illidan and the reason they keep him imprisoned, he got mad at Tyrande for wanting to realease him.

I know it's easier to percieve them as good guy Malfurion and black sheep of the family Illidan, but Malfurion just "got lucky" that everything worked his way in life and got the girl they both wanted. It's far easier to act like good person when everything goes your way. I would like to see Malfurion in Illidan's place.

It's like having a brother who's mom's favourite and good at everything. As bad as you feel ocasionally he'll remind you how much better he is and how your methods are extreme & crazy.

Just to be clear, I am not saying Malfurion is bad, just that it's not as black and white as everyone think it is.

[Evangeliste]

I don't get why people are not accepting Illidan is a dimensional character. Illidan knew better than Malfurion, Malfurion could have him killed but didn't. The answer is numerous but the fact remains that he didn't shows there was a reason. Illidan killing his brother is going to be an idiotic move in story telling and bears little help to progress it and not to mention makes it weird to kill him. What gain will Illidan get? None. Revenge isn't really satisfactory if you don't want revenge and clearly Illidan doesn't or he wouldn't have left to go Outlands and so on instead doing everything in his power to obliterate Malfurion.

Sometimes your family can be a dick to you but you don't go out of your way to kill them do you? That's more bent on being sick if you physically do it, most say I'll kill you, you bumhole but who that are sane go through with it?

[Wildmoon]

When Burning Legion returned, for which he claimed they need Illidan and the reason they keep him imprisoned, he got mad at Tyrande for wanting to realease him.

I know it's easier to percieve them as good guy Malfurion and black sheep of the family Illidan, but Malfurion just "got lucky" that everything worked his way in life and got the girl they both wanted. It's far easier to act like good person when everything goes your way. I would like to see Malfurion in Illidan's place.

It's like having a brother who's mom's favourite and good at everything. As bad as you feel ocasionally he'll remind you how much better he is and how your methods are extreme & crazy.

That was likely because he abandoned the hope that Illidan would change his way but again the part that stated that Malfurion went to visit Illidan was in Stormrage novel which was published after WC3. Illidan's betrayal in WC3's WotA was extreme compared to a mild version in the novels.

I doubt Malfurion would act like Illidan though. He was not that type of character. I think if Tyrande really chose Illidan then Malfurion would grief and then just consume himself with his studies and duties to protect the world without his love interfering with his duty.

[ravenmoon]

It wouldn't, really. It'd be a very awkward moment - the NE / Malfurion found out that they were wrong, but openly admitting it would be the same as admitting that they fucked up many people for more than 10 thousand years (not just Illidan, but other arcane magic users as well). As of Illidan himself, he no longer care about the Night Elves anymore, if not outright hate them. At best, we get no reaction and both of them would just work together like what we are going to have. At worst, Illidan is so going to have a field day shoving the fact that he was right in his brother (and the NE)'s face.

yes, it would be at first, they're not evil people, and they care, they'd be devastated at their treatment of him, but that would soon give way to admiration. Night elves do know how to hero worship - Azshara, Elisande, Illidan could really form revolution or at least the figure head of a new movemnt of night elves trying to emulate his achievement..okay maybe not quite so human like, but at least taken note of his effectiveness against the leigon, and without the traitor tag attached to him any longer, they would not be ashamed of stepping up to teh challenge.

Remember Malfurion's peaceful ways are accepted because he saved them, and seemed to know hat he was doing in all tha tconfusion. But he's way is not hte only way. the highborne and now suramar nightborne have retunred - with the ill effects of magic cured, Thalyssra and co have shown maigc wielding night elves to not just be pampered, entitled but flaky, but shown they can have real honour and true nobility, and magic in their order is not just for luxuries and comforts but can be used to win a war they a willing to lay down their lives for. They also have Illidan - who will not only play with fire, but embrace it, the most dangerous kind and has the resolve and determination to not only resist its seduction but utilise it to destroy a great evil.

They have respectable alternatives now through the shal'dorei and the Illidari. I don't expect Tyrande's followers, Malfurion's and Maiev's to stop following their leaders, but i woudl expect Thalyssra and Illidan would really inspire a whole lot of night elves - who face it, have got to be tired of being destroyed, losing out and i think have spent enough time living in the woods alone. Druids maybe fine with that, and all elves may enjoy the forest galdes greatly, but it hink only a certain type would choose willingly to continue sleeping rough under the open stars and in caves - i.e. druids, most other night elves would happily gaze at the stars from excquisite buildings, beautiflly carved gazeebos etc.

Illidan still cares about the night elves. He may not care to be a part of them - he makes this clear in WC3, but dude, it is for his people he is doing all of this, he knows he is right about the legion, and he knows you need extreme measures to get rid of them. He has accepted his people may never be willing to take the ncessary steps, but that may change now or when they no longer view him as a traitor - at least to enough night elves. He still has a soft spot for Tyrande, but htere is pain there. All the demon hunters have given up everything to save their people , to save their world. The demons destroyed the most beautiful, serene and majestic civilzation on the planet. A people who were all about doing good and right, and did everything in their power to improve their world, discover and learn and were fascinated by the mysteries of the world and the universe at large. Greatness in discovery and knowledge, in beauty and delicacy of nature and life.. all this is undone by the legion. No, Illidan does this because of his people and it has kept his sanity during the long years, and is what stops him from ripping them apart for imprisoning him unjustly for 10k years, at least prevents the demon within from ceasing control and venting rage on the people he is doing this for. This is why despite his impriononment he does help them in WC3, and continues doing so although his brother doesn't understand nor agree with his methods.

Eventually his methods, i.e. becoming metamorphosised after abosrbing the skull of Gul'dan cos his brother to turn on him and pursue.. but Illidan loses perspective from the poer surge, and now the TBC events are viewed in the light that the demon within while not directly in control was exerting far too powerful a hold on Illidan - and responsible for going to the degree he did with some of the peoples in Outland.

Altruis picks up on this, that his mehtods in outland had crossed the line, because they had, we know the demon within that has gone strong is at heart in this, but remember illidan pays for his actions in Outland, the demon within remember never fully controls him though it 's it that blocks the wiser more elvane responses from happening. HE is dead ofused on completeing his misison, licking his wounds after Arthas defeat, managing the legion while plotting to finish them off. Not to agin their power for himself but to destroy them utterly with it. No matter how much pwer he gains, that is his principle focus and he never loses sight of it, even though he loses sight of why and what he was protecting

but he ofc gains clarity after the death when it's just his soul out there [they needed to change his soul form back to night elf] when his body is ready, we find out that the demon within is still there and we need to fight it to subdue it sufficiently for illidan's soul to return to it withotu being conusmed by the same madness or worse than what he dsiplayed in Outland. And we succeed, and he succeeds too in claiming his body and controlling his inner demon. thansk to our help.

[Qualia]

Malfurion never thought that Illidan's view that the legion would return was wrong. The magic addiction was real. Malfurion was never wrong about that. The Well made them so dependent on it. That's just fact. One could argue about whether it's right or wrong to give up on arcane magic but the fact is that it's a choice of life style.

You are talking like the Night Elves did wrong on Illidan and should apologize for it when in fact it's the other way around. Don't forget that Illidan let the Demon Soul slip into the legion's hands which risked the destruction of Azeroth.

Malfurion acknowledged that Illidan was right, but the NE - or at least a lot of them - didn't. There should be a reason Illidan was called "Betrayer" instead of "Murderer" (which was what he was sentenced for by Malfurion). If anything, Vandel (when he first met Illidan) was probably an example of how average NE saw him "a being around whom dark legends clustered" or "(You) serve the Legion". In regards to the Demon Soul, it was a planned action all along in order to remove the Legion from Azeroth. Seeing that Malfurion was able to perfect the spell Illidan used to banish the demons back to the Nether, I don't see any need for Illidan to apologize for what he did. If he didn't take the Demon Soul or didn't figure out the idea / spell at first place, there wasn't any guarantee that WoTA would have ended well.

As of arcane magic usage, Malfurion and the druid declared that any repeated usage of arcane magic would have been punishable by death (which led to the protest and exile of the surviving Highborne). The basis of it was that the druids concluded that arcane magic was not safe and thus, prohibited its use to avoid another WoTA. However, with the new knowledge about the Legion, that doesn't seem to be the case. The Legion were targeting everything in the universe at first place, the usage of the Well only allowed them to locate Azeroth - that (and the WoTA) would have happened sooner or later. With the Legion know where Azeroth is now, making arcane usage a crime was just overdoing it (true that it seemed justifiable since the NE didn't know fully about the Legion by then, though).