Pit bulls : Dangerous dogs or friendly buddies?

[Rotted]

Some dogs have more aggressive traits than others that goes without saying

However no dog is born vicious, it is completely (or near enough genetics can play a part) down to the up bringing of the dog. There are multiple ways a dog can turn out aggressive,

Being terrified - ex breeder dogs is a class example
Status symbols - idiots train their dogs to bite and be vicious to scare others
Dog fights - pretty self explinatory
Non socializing - this is a heart break of a one as it can happen to a good family, but if a dog isn't socialized with other dogs or other people, it can be vicious as a form of protection

I remember one time volunteering in my local vets, and this border collie came in. A bitch, only two years old. The very first thing we found out about it, was it was a vicious little cunt. It adored the mother and the 9 year old daughter to bits, however anyone else could not approach this dog. The father couldn't as it had already bit him, and it snapped multiple times at the 12 year old brother.

We had to escort this woman out of the room, get a dog catcher, use it, and heavily sedate it to give it an examination (it was also booked in for a spey). We had to sedate it, to give it a brief examination, as in check ears, teeth, eyes etc. It was insane. We put it in the kennels ready for its op,

Two hours later it came around, the vet owner wouldn't let any of the nurses or female vets help with it (he's a bit old fashioned, but lovely bloke), hell he didn't even let the newly qualified vets help, It was purely, him, a farm vet and me, we had to grab the dog with the catcher, wedge is between the door and a wall (imagine a open door being pushed against the wall). The head vet held it down with this catcher, the farm vet held the door, while using his legs as a brace against the frame, and I had to go in and stick it with the injection in the hind leg.

Needless to say after the op, the official advice to the owner was, give it up to a rescue who specialize dog behavior training or put it down. It is the only animal I've come across in 10 years of work / experience I've ever turned around and said it should be put to sleep. Believe me I've seen some shit shows,

And because I know someones going to point out "Oh you volunteered, BS you wouldn't be allowed near it etc etc", for context, the head vet is 6 foot something, former african military trained / vet for the K9 units they had aka he's as strong as an ox, the other lad works with bulls on farms and I teach both (or used to teach both) martial arts, and can put them both down on their arses, which in the head vets mind, made me more suited to help them than their staff. Also lets face it, my hands or fingers get bit, I just can't use a keyboard for a while, his vets hands get fucked they can't do surgery

[Amirila]

Not automatically more dangerous, but they have a bigger chance of being it than others

[Aquinan]

I'm just going to train my Leonberger to eat pitbulls

[Puupi]

I'm just going to train my Leonberger to eat pitbulls

Leonbergers are awesome dogs!

[Cuppy]

Good to know you're in this to play stupid games. Maybe it would be more appropriate to try to engage in more intelligent discussion. Assuming of course you are capable thereof.

Sure am, do I need to quote your own words to bring back memories about this game you started...?
The part is when someone decides to take the "No u" train. Oh me? Hahaha, you bet I'm in!

A weak narrative parrotted by lovers of the breed to try and handwave away pretty damning stats. While it's very likely that bad owners have exacerbated the situation and skewed the stats even worse than they should be, I can't see how any intelligent, unbiased individual wouldn't see the obvious underlying problem that was there in the first place (and is the very reason why pitbulls attract bad owners)

You get the same stats when you make statistics about people who blew themselves up with a bombvest. And many people really roll with this logic, condemning everything because "That's what the stats say".
And fair enough, you got those stats, but STILL I'm going to insist that if the following scenario would occur:
10 pitbull puppies given to someone who knows how to train dogs.
10 chihuahuas given to people who treat it as a tattoo.
We would have 10 nerveous, aggressive, nutshitflippin' chihuahuas and 10 calm, steady pitbulls.

And that's pretty much what the point is. Topic of this thread: Dangerous dogs or friendly buddies? Friendly buddies obviously.

[Celista]

No behavior in any human or animal can be 100% attributed to training/socialization. Behavior is a combination of both genetics and environment.

[kail]

They are physically capable of doing damage just like most other large breed dogs. Any of those breeds can be trained and raised to be well behaved.

I treat large breed dogs similar to muscle built guys that are nearby, all are fine until they exhibit aggression.

[zenkai]

I don't necessarily disagree with that I just don't think banning the breed is the right way to go about it like some are proposing. Chihuahuas are aggressive napoleon complex shitheads too but there's a lot of sweet ones also that were raised and trained properly.

Which is why I am fine for allowing said breeds as long as people take some sort of vetting process.

[Molis]

I lived in Texas for about a year after my parents divorced. My Uncle lived next to us and we each owned a few acres.

They had many pitbulls over that time. His biggest Pitbull "pack leader" would roam the yard and absolutely destroy any animal, dog, or critter that came within his range. He would wake up with cuts or scars.

However when playing with me and my cousins he was the most loveable happy pet that could ever be. Some of the little ones would tug on his ears or tail, and he would not snap or bite.

It all comes down to proper ownership, training and upbringing.

[Independent voter]

I think they are sweet dogs but are high energy and a have the potential to do a lot of damage.

[Knolan]

That is a tricky question.

Pit bulls are obviously more dangerous than other dogs, since they have a ridiculous strong bite. That being said I don't believe they are more likely to attack someone than other breeds, is all about the right training.

My parents own a male dachshund (5 kg / 11 pounds) and it is not trained while I own a female Golden Retriever (36 kg / 79 pounds) and it is trained. The dachshund has bitten me once and of course it barely scratched me. My dog has never even growl to me, but if it ever bites someone, the person will probably lose a finger.

So, in the end, avoiding attacks is all about good training, knowing and respecting the animal boundaries, but the damage is obviously proportional to the animal strength.

[Bender]

They are one of the dangerous breeds, I won't pretend to know which ones are the worst. Dog danger= probability*consequence. Good training and socialization means the probability of something happening decreasing dramatically, but the consequences if something happens can still be very severe. I'd honestly prefer it if there were very stringent requirements for owning big and strong breeds of any flavor.

[Samesnotatroll]

Pitbulls are more dangerous, but only because of the myths that attracted horrible people. There is no such thing as lock jaw and their bites PSI is nothing out of the ordinary. They were called nanny dogs in England due to how gentle they were for who knows how long until some rumors about lock jaw and extreme PSI for their size in the past two decades started spreading.

[zhero]

Yeah, honestly, these silly armchair debaters demanding citations. A quick google search for "most dangerous breed of dog" returned the following

"Pit Bull. via wikipedia.org. Pit bulls are by far the most dangerous and aggressive breed of dog there is."

I mean it's not even a contest. Some people argue that it's because bad owners are attracted to the breed (which I have little doubt exacerbates the problem) but there is a reason bad owners gravitate towards pitbulls. Because it is a well established fact that they are the most dangerous breed out there....

i searched and the top #1 result said no.

[Nanaboostme]

Has nothing to do with "evil".
Matter of how we bred them thats given them unnatural instincts.

They dont have immoral goals.

[AlphaOut]

If you're talking about an untrained and ignored dog, then yes I could probably get on board with saying they're dangerous. I could also say that Huskies, German Shepherds, rottweilers, bull terrier, boxer, malamute, Doberman would also be dangerous if someone just owned them and decided to not train them and ignore them.

Pit Bulls tend to get a bad rap because of the people who own them. You can't really deny that. Just go do a bad part of town and see how many Pit Bulls you see in yards. It isn't hard to do the math there. Not to mention people with prior criminal records. You can look at the other side of it as well, and see how many good loving families own Pit Bulls and how well behaved they are.

Personally, I own 2 huskies, and my neighbor owns a german shepherd and a dutch shepherd. These dogs require extensive training and behavioral corrections. They will constantly push the boundaries if you get lazy. Which dog owners tend to do....a lot. Some dogs require more obedience training than others, but they all require socialization; which I think that's where the misunderstanding of Pit Bulls come in.

Yeah, honestly, these silly armchair debaters demanding citations. A quick google search for "most dangerous breed of dog" returned the following

"Pit Bull. via wikipedia.org. Pit bulls are by far the most dangerous and aggressive breed of dog there is."

I mean it's not even a contest. Some people argue that it's because bad owners are attracted to the breed (which I have little doubt exacerbates the problem) but there is a reason bad owners gravitate towards pitbulls. Because it is a well established fact that they are the most dangerous breed out there....

The American Temperament Test Society (http://www.atts.org) perform their temperment tests regularly on popular breeds. You can visit their web site to view upcoming testing dates and location and actually get your own dog tested. The most recent aggregation of all test results was in 2016.

Description of the test:
The test simulates a casual walk through a park or neighborhood where everyday life situations are encountered. During this walk, the dog experiences visual, auditory and tactile stimuli. Neutral, friendly and threatening situations are encountered, calling into play the dog's ability to distinguish between non-threatening situations and those calling for watchful and protective reactions.

The dog fails the test if it shows:

Unprovoked aggression
Panic without recovery
Strong avoidance

American Pit Bull Terriers passed the test at a rate of 87.4%.

This is higher than Collies, Golden Retrievers, and other dogs generally considered "family friendly". The average dog population is around 77%. You can also see how many were tested and how many passed / failed.

I do have a question for people who say they are dangerous. Tell my why they have become extremely successful therapy dogs? It wouldn't make sense to have a "naturally aggressive" breed as a therapy dog used in public, right? Wrap your head around that one.

[AlphaOut]

That is a tricky question.

Pit bulls are obviously more dangerous than other dogs, since they have a ridiculous strong bite. That being said I don't believe they are more likely to attack someone than other breeds, is all about the right training.

My parents own a male dachshund (5 kg / 11 pounds) and it is not trained while I own a female Golden Retriever (36 kg / 79 pounds) and it is trained. The dachshund has bitten me once and of course it barely scratched me. My dog has never even growl to me, but if it ever bites someone, the person will probably lose a finger.

So, in the end, avoiding attacks is all about good training, knowing and respecting the animal boundaries, but the damage is obviously proportional to the animal strength.

Pit Bulls have a strong bite for sure. But so does any Northern Spitz breed.

German Shepherd, Rottweiler, Doberman, and Mastiff all have strong bites. There's been some cool bite pressure tests out there. I "think" Mastiff was the highest. But Doberman has the strongest jaw. I agree with you, its all about being a responsible owner at the end of the day.

[Celista]

Some dogs have more aggressive traits than others that goes without saying

However no dog is born vicious, it is completely (or near enough genetics can play a part) down to the up bringing of the dog. There are multiple ways a dog can turn out aggressive,

Being terrified - ex breeder dogs is a class example
Status symbols - idiots train their dogs to bite and be vicious to scare others
Dog fights - pretty self explinatory
Non socializing - this is a heart break of a one as it can happen to a good family, but if a dog isn't socialized with other dogs or other people, it can be vicious as a form of protection

I remember one time volunteering in my local vets, and this border collie came in. A bitch, only two years old. The very first thing we found out about it, was it was a vicious little cunt. It adored the mother and the 9 year old daughter to bits, however anyone else could not approach this dog. The father couldn't as it had already bit him, and it snapped multiple times at the 12 year old brother.

We had to escort this woman out of the room, get a dog catcher, use it, and heavily sedate it to give it an examination (it was also booked in for a spey). We had to sedate it, to give it a brief examination, as in check ears, teeth, eyes etc. It was insane. We put it in the kennels ready for its op,

Two hours later it came around, the vet owner wouldn't let any of the nurses or female vets help with it (he's a bit old fashioned, but lovely bloke), hell he didn't even let the newly qualified vets help, It was purely, him, a farm vet and me, we had to grab the dog with the catcher, wedge is between the door and a wall (imagine a open door being pushed against the wall). The head vet held it down with this catcher, the farm vet held the door, while using his legs as a brace against the frame, and I had to go in and stick it with the injection in the hind leg.

Needless to say after the op, the official advice to the owner was, give it up to a rescue who specialize dog behavior training or put it down. It is the only animal I've come across in 10 years of work / experience I've ever turned around and said it should be put to sleep. Believe me I've seen some shit shows,

And because I know someones going to point out "Oh you volunteered, BS you wouldn't be allowed near it etc etc", for context, the head vet is 6 foot something, former african military trained / vet for the K9 units they had aka he's as strong as an ox, the other lad works with bulls on farms and I teach both (or used to teach both) martial arts, and can put them both down on their arses, which in the head vets mind, made me more suited to help them than their staff. Also lets face it, my hands or fingers get bit, I just can't use a keyboard for a while, his vets hands get fucked they can't do surgery

Behavior is close to 50/50 environment/genetics for almost everything except for things like seizures, neurological conditions like feline hyperesthesia, etc. You can see it in breed behavior, certain breeds are prone to certain types of behavior no matter their environment...like retrievers being prone to carrying things around in their mouths, or guarding behavior you see in herding/protection breeds.

That is a sad story about the female border collie, proper training and socialization can curb most behaviors even when a breed has a strong genetic tendency towards a particular behavioral trait.

[AlphaOut]

That is a sad story about the female border collie, proper training and socialization can curb most behaviors even when a breed has a strong genetic tendency towards a particular behavioral trait.

I just want me huskies to stop digging holes in my back yard. Assholes. They found my sprinkler system last week. lol

[Puupi]

I just want me huskies to stop digging holes in my back yard. Assholes. They found my sprinkler system last week. lol

It's been like two days without snow and our yard is already starting to look like Verdun in 1916.