Mafia #81 - Game Thread - Mario Kart Madness

[Xanjori]

So, nobody on my train actually has an answer to my question, then? I figured as much.

I mean, the fact you won't even push on Danner who is the one posting the evidence here says enough really. There is no defence from you, just a "OH NO IT WASN'T ME I PROMISE GUYS."

I mean explain Danners results, how did everyone except you lose posts?

[Graeham]

I mean, the fact you won't even push on Danner who is the one posting the evidence here says enough really. There is no defence from you, just a "OH NO IT WASN'T ME I PROMISE GUYS."

I mean explain Danners results, how did everyone except you lose posts?

How can I explain something I don't understand? Can he even explain it himself? He already stated he does not believe it to be an attempt to murder anyone so what, exactly, is my motive? Explain that to justify a vote on me. Nobody can, though - so it's the usual crap of following a TPR (and lynching another TPR in the process). Pushing on Danner would be pointless, I don't believe he is lying but that he has been tricked and is stubbornly misguided. He does deserve to be lynched tomorrow, though, once my role card is revealed if I am today's lynch. Partly due to selfishness on my part and mostly because he made an extremely bad call and is potentially just taking the 'opportunistic' route I mentioned earlier.

[Bombercloner]

Fuck everybody on my train, seriously. Nobody can explain to me what, exactly, I would stand to gain from urging people to post as much as possible both today and yesterday and keep their 'shell' items to protect them against post reducing attacks at night. It's pretty fucking obvious that I was framed, how many times have scum screwed me over in the past because they know they can push an easy mislynch on me if they paint me as suspicious.

I am not lying about my role and most of you idiots will go 'MY BAD' the moment you see my flip and pretend as if you had no alternative. I'm very unhappy with you in particular, Danner and I hope you get lynched tomorrow. I'm fucking done. You've utterly refused to budge at all, so it's pretty clear you - and a few others - are going down the opportunistic route to try and become the 'Grand Champion'. Which, you know, I've been saying all day.

I'm also so damn tired of being screwed over and made to not enjoy the game whenever I end up as a TPR. Am I not allowed to actually enjoy myself anymore? Seriously, fuck whoever framed me as well.

boooooo hooooooo

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@Graeham, what item did you have N2 and what item do you have now?

[Marack]

boooooo hooooooo

How is this ANY help to the game bomber?

[Graeham]

boooooo hooooooo

Do you have anything of actual value to contribute or are you just going to continue to cruise by on flawed 'town points' bestowed upon you by someone who isn't even paying attention to the game's secondary mechanics? Remember that game when I fought fiercely in your defence and risked my own hide because you were the cop? I'd say it'd be nice if you could return the favour and put your faith in me, in turn, but I guess that's hoping for too much.

[Bombercloner]

How is this ANY help to the game bomber?

How is this ANY help to the game Marack?

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Do you have anything of actual value to contribute or are you just going to continue to cruise by on flawed 'town points' bestowed upon you by someone who isn't even paying attention to the game's secondary mechanics? Remember that game when I fought fiercely in your defence and risked my own hide because you were the cop? I'd say it'd be nice if you could return the favour and put your faith in me, in turn, but I guess that's hoping for too much.

Answer the question I have asked you twice and I will consider believing you

[dupti]

1. ) Well you actually are, your tone and the words you use kinda influence how people perceive you say things.

Agreed, they do but I can't control how you perceive it. You actually made me curious earlier, so I asked Kryllian if he thought I was bitching at his game, but he said he wasn't so fortunately the only person whos opinion actually matters in this regard did not care about it.

2. ) It's a tool, it's neither good nor evil. Like a sword it depends on who wields it with better skill. By refusing to even raise the sword, you're allowing for others to use it against you and acting surprised when you lose a limb.

I don't think that analogy works at all. Even if I am okay with raising the sword it still allows for other people to use it against me. It would be more correct to say that I refuse to raise the sword because there is a fairly high risk that it might hurt other people. If town 'raises the sword' they risk hitting other townies (either by actually forcing a modkill through, or just leave them with a low enough post count for scum to hammer) while still allowing scum to use it. Point is, it is more risky. If you are willing to take that risk, then who am I to argue against it. I personally do not think town should risk it. I have a different opinion than you. Do you not agree that it is more risky?

3. ) So again, you didn't read the OP and yet you feel like you're entitled to an equal opinion. You and all others like you are the main issue with the world as it is right now.

Yes, I do. Whether you care about my opinion is another matter. I did read the OP but not carefully enough, and when I later learned exactly how the mechanic work, I reconsidered my stance on it. Instead of complaining about me not reading the OP, how about we stick to the point? (you think I'm retarded for thinking it's risky to go put players on a low post count to pressure them).

4. ) It's for whoever wants to use it, town not being willing to utilize it for themselves leaves the door open for scum to use it. Like gun control you can't hand out the power to everyone and act surprised when some use it towards violent ends. If you were to restrict it and monitor it's use, it would eventually decrease these acts and help you to weed out those who would abuse the system.

I get the impression I might've just repeated myself, since we just went over this.
To stick with the analogy, I do not think I am leaving a door open for scum to use it, the door has been open all the time. As it is right now, we know that only scum are using the door but if we start to use it as well then we leave more room for scum to walk around, since it then becomes easier for them to blend in with town. I think my approach is safer, whether it's better is definitely up for discussion but I personally think it's better to go with the safest play right now.

7. ) No, but I believe you should be held accountable for just how stupid you seem to be playing.

I'm not sure how to understand this. You actally think by voting on me you are holding me accountable?
Also if you believe I am playing stupid, surely you must believe everyone else is as well? I'm not the only one who isn't interested in going for mod kills, in fact it seems like the majority of people don't want to.

I can also go through everything I've done this game if you want to point out everything that is stupid. I don't mean to be rude, but you claiming I'm playing stupid would probably mean a bit more if you didn't have a vote on me.

8. ) Fuck you and your reads, I already told you where I stand on that.

Cool.

Reads don't mean shit in this game and it's a crutch for people who don't want to actually attempt to play properly. It's just as easy for scum to ask for them as it is town and they are an easily abused list that mean nothing. The fact that you put so much stock in them is pretty telling.

In this particular game or in general? Because reads means a lot. Obviously giving out reads doesn't necessarily mean that much, but it does mean something for the rest of the game and can help move a game forward.

I agree that asking for reads requires nothing, no doubt about that, but giving out proper logical reads is another matter. People giving out reads helps other players get a better read on them and can help solve the game. It's can help get a player into the game if they aren't really following and have no reads whatsoever. Reads can create discussion, which I'd say is pretty good for the game.

Also if you think that I "put so much stock" in reads, then I agree that it indeed very telling.
I'm frankly not entirely sure what you believe counts as 'playing properly'. Do you consider the way that you have played this game the proper way to play?

[Graeham]

Answer the question I have asked you twice and I will consider believing you

Fine. I didn't have an item at the end of D2, I had a PoW box up until shortly before D2 ended and then it was stolen from me. This is why I believe I was framed. It's irrelevant since they're credited automatically but I then received a mushroom during the night phase.

I currently have no items, though up until very recently I had a banana peel which I threw at Danner out of spite. I'm sure he can confirm that (and it isn't going to put him at risk).

[dupti]

Actually I don't see me and Virothe's discussion going anywhere. We have different opinions, he thinks mine is stupid which is fine, it doesn't reall matter. I'm fairly certain this is his scum play though.

[Bombercloner]

Has anyone else received a mushroom DURING night phase?

[Virothe]

Remember that game when I fought fiercely in your defence and risked my own hide because you were the cop? I'd say it'd be nice if you could return the favour and put your faith in me, in turn, but I guess that's hoping for too much.

Umm don't try using previous game shit to force opinions in the current game, If you can't defend yourself in the current text then it's your own failing not others who wont defend you because of that failing and dredging up shit from previous games is just a desperate move that I can't believe a member of town would try to pull.

[dupti]

but I then received a mushroom during the night phase.

Wait what? During the night?

[Bombercloner]

For that matter has anyone received an item during night phase?

[Graeham]

Wait what? During the night?

Yes, that's correct.

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For that matter has anyone received an item during night phase?

Is it not normal? I've received one per night so far.

[Bombercloner]

I have never received an item during the night phase, but I have never not had an item going into the night phase.

[Graeham]

I have never received an item during the night phase, but I have never not had an item going into the night phase.

Then there's definitely something weird going on. Again, I'll bring up my 'long con' theory that someone is being opportunistic and planning to aim for the 'Grand Champion' title. Likely multiple players, not necessarily aligned or in communication with each other.

Ret is confirmed town and Danner is - presumably - town as well. So that's two roles involving the item/post mechanic. Why wouldn't scum have something similar to mess with things? Especially when all we've seen flip so far has been two goons and a serial killer.

[Bombercloner]

In a world where graeham isn't lying I suppose scum could have an "item busser"

----Give my POW box to Graeham and force him to use it-----

What was your ending net post count on N2 Graeham?

[Xanjori]

In a world where graeham isn't lying I suppose scum could have an "item busser"

----Give my POW box to Graeham and force him to use it-----

What was your ending net post count on N2 Graeham?

That'd be ridiculously OP? I mean on top of that the question still remains, why did Catta use his POW before a day end if the scum can simply force people to use items at night?

[Graeham]

That'd be ridiculously OP? I mean on top of that the question still remains, why did Catta use his POW before a day end if the scum can simply force people to use items at night?

Scum cannot communicate with each other until the night phase, as revealed by Catta's role card. So Catta obviously wasn't talking to his scum buddies and was essentially operating as a lone wolf. He also slipped during the previous game and got himself lynched under similar circumstances, so I don't feel like it's a stretch to suggest that he didn't put up much a fight when Danner caught him out.

In a world where graeham isn't lying I suppose scum could have an "item busser"

----Give my POW box to Graeham and force him to use it-----

What was your ending net post count on N2 Graeham?

I don't know. Where would I check this? I'm sorry, this is going to seem like a cop out but I have dyscalculia and can't work very well with numbers at all - which is why I don't tend to keep track of post/vote numbers or take notes.

[Bombercloner]

You started N2 with 20 post 'points' what happened to you in the night?

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I would like to point out that scum have 'abilities' that have not been revealed. Scum factional kill information has also been hidden from us. So that is two things scum can do we are not aware of (even more if each scum member has a unique ability)

abilities-
Listo 'your vote is your power'
large 'bpv or investigation immune'
catta - blank
palawin - blank
ret - undo a mod kill